Game Difficulty Far Too Easy

[muccmaster]

there is the problem with your mindset. you don't want a game to tell you that you have failed and have no skill whatsoever. you want the game to tell you that you are allmighty.

you are the reason why games are getting dumbed down, so any skilles and mindless brat with hands growing from his butt will be able to complete it.

 

try out dark souls. there is nothing as good as overcoming challenges, because when you finally managed to complete one or another area or boss, you know that not many did it. and some even got crestfallen.

Way to generalize you illiterate, uneducated moron. I never said the game should be completely easy, I said it should be beatable. Yes they should increase the difficulty but if they make the game insanely hard then everyone would be crying because of limited lives. I've played and beaten both Demon and Dark Souls by the way.

[rksk16it]

My conclusion pretty much has to be that you've bought a number of your frames rather than grinding for them (and that's perfectly fine, i'm not going to bash on you for that, that's your choice.) and your weapons, and generally haven't yet really experienced the game and all it has to offer in terms of difficulty, challenge, and variety. I would absolutely love some proof to the contrary- but i'm afraid I can't justify taking you seriously until you've offered that proof.

 

I am not here to provide you any proof. This thread is neither about me, nor about whether you take someone seriously or not. I only bought Saryn and Glaive, everything else is farmed. Treat it however you like, and I dont want you take me seriously for what I care.

 

Have fun being in top 500 players in a PvE game which is easier than snatching candy from a 5 year old kid.

[TennoSkoom]

 

Since you are so very interested, here it goes :

 

 

I am rank-3, almost half way to rank-4. You can see I have Gorgon rifle in my inventory which proves the point. My profile shows my gameplay incorrect. I even made a topic in Player helping Player section regarding this :

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/44897-time-played/

 

If you can help me out on that, I will appreciate it a lot.

and there's the proof i was hoping for. =) I can't really help with the time played statistics and can only direct you towards support as another player in that thread has. You want difficulty and challenge? I'd be happy to show it to you on harder defense runs and attempting 'perfect stealth' runs. which are a combination of both skill and sometimes luck (stealth is something currently being improved to increase the variety of available playstyles and add some interesting game dynamics. It's a bit clunky right now, but still possible to pull off a perfect stealth run.)

 

On the bright side new content is on the way- and i expect higher difficulty with it. but for now offer level 130+ enemies that you can't just sprint past. You bring up unreal and skill-based twitch shooters (which warframe is most certianly not.) their reward system was non-existant. Your reward was the challenging gameplay. Those are also PVP games, not PVE. I can't draw on your 'WoW' References as I never really played the game myself. Not my thing, Difficulty scaling in Warframe is something that is being worked on and hopefully improved. If you were ever an oldschool shooter player you'll know that being good at a game and mastering a game are two very different things.

 

Halfway to mastery rank 4 you haven't explored half of the available frames yet, and i'm willing to bet you haven't seen level 130+ enemies staring you down. You're not yet near end-game yet. You're getting there, but it's a bit of a way's off yet. Please also remember warframe is still beta and still undergoing heavy development.

 

As of now there's no real answer right now for directly improving difficulty beyond self-imposed restrictions to artificially increase the challenge (using crap weapons at high difficulty levels) and directly increasing the enemy level through endless defense waves. You still have plenty of time however before you've experienced enough of warframe to say there's no challenge at all. Rushing through levels isn't helping you with this at all either. Any combat oriented game can be considered too easy if you develop a pattern of avoiding combat as much as possible.

 

EDIT:

seem to have just missed this later response

 

 

I am not here to provide you any proof. This thread is neither about me, nor about whether you take someone seriously or not. I only bought Saryn and Glaive, everything else is farmed. Treat it however you like, and I dont want you take me seriously for what I care.

 

Have fun being in top 500 players in a PvE game which is easier than snatching candy from a 5 year old kid.

 

Umad bro? No really. You provided proof and then went back and raged. xD I can't help but laugh.

Edited May 19, 2013 by AnalogAnomaly

[rksk16it]

seem to have just missed this later response

 

 

 

Umad bro? No really. You provided proof and then went back and raged. xD I can't help but laugh.

 

yea I missed response.. sry :)

[rksk16it]

@AnalogAnomaly

EDIT: Dont EDIT your posts, make a new one !! Confuses others on what you are trying to say. I took your EDIT as your response to my proof, and thats why I raged a little bit :P

 

@others

sorry for derailing thread a little bit.

 

@AnalogAnomaly

Yea I can understand level 130+ enemies will be hard, and I am yet to explore most of other warframes. I have actually built Loki and Banshee, they are still in foundry ready to claim. I can also build rhino, got all its blueprints, but yet to farm for mats. But I am kindda too annoyed farming for rifle multi-shot and still not able to find it ... and when I am farming for mods I am not rushing, I usually do solo exterminate missions for that. So I dont have to keep up with team and can take my time. So many grineers I killed yet no multi-shot so I am kindda little exhausted and took a short break from game, I dont want to risk losing all interest in it. Tnx for your offer in showing me to higher waves of defense missions though.

 

Again: Pls dont EDIT your posts >.>

[Un1ted]

Rushing is not playing the game. Warframe is not sonic the hedgehog, you're not fighting against the clock 90% of the time. You lose out on heaps of mods, credits, and experience points by 'rushing' through a level and bypassing the enemies- and then have the nerve to call something you haven't even really played easy? Shame on you.

 

Was thinking the same. exact. thing.

 

Ofc the game is easy if you just rush past everything to the exit, bypassing and dodging enemies along the way. People who do this and then say the game is too easy are missing the entire INTENT of the game. We are supposed to feel like ultra-powerful 1-man armies, eviscerating everything all around us like a warm knife through butter - that feeling of power is intoxicating and the main draw of the gameplay. Forcing players to instead creep their way from cover-to-cover cowering in the shadows by simply throwing mass numbers of foes at us, or even worse meatsponges that exist only to soak up bullets is not just artificial difficulty, it goes against the entire focus and style of Warframe. The devs have said it multiple times in streams, chats, posts. You are supposed to mow your way through the trash mobs with the occasional harder foe to encounter. The point is not to see how many enemies you can bypass by rushing to the exit, it is to see how many total you can kill. That's the entire basis of the player Rankings/Top Players on the Stats page.

 

Granted their are a few other gameplay elements such as timed missions, mobile defense, stealth kills etc but if you're just rushing for the exit then you're doing it wrong and I bet you have a super-low Player ranking. For shame indeed..

[rksk16it]

Was thinking the same. exact. thing.

 

Ofc the game is easy if you just rush past everything to the exit, bypassing and dodging enemies along the way. People who do this and then say the game is too easy are missing the entire INTENT of the game. We are supposed to feel like ultra-powerful 1-man armies, eviscerating everything all around us like a warm knife through butter - that feeling of power is intoxicating and the main draw of the gameplay. Forcing players to instead creep their way from cover-to-cover cowering in the shadows by simply throwing mass numbers of foes at us, or even worse meatsponges that exist only to soak up bullets is not just artificial difficulty, it goes against the entire focus and style of Warframe. The devs have said it multiple times in streams, chats, posts. You are supposed to mow your way through the trash mobs with the occasional harder foe to encounter. The point is not to see how many enemies you can bypass by rushing to the exit, it is to see how many total you can kill. That's the entire basis of the player Rankings/Top Players on the Stats page.

 

Granted their are a few other gameplay elements such as timed missions, mobile defense, stealth kills etc but if you're just rushing for the exit then you're doing it wrong and I bet you have a super-low Player ranking. For shame indeed..

 

If I want to feel ultra-powerful 1-man army, then I will play mage (arcane warrior + spirit healer)  in Dragon Age 1 .. just saying ;)

 

And I dont rush hiding from enemies.. I just rush past them ignoring their gunfire... I am sooooo strong that they exist because I allow it, and they will die if I demand it... know what I am sayin ? :P

 

Edited May 19, 2013 by rksk16it

[TennoSkoom]

yea I missed response.. sry :)

 by the way, your screenshot shows you as mastry rank 1 ;-)

 

@AnalogAnomaly

EDIT: Dont EDIT your posts, make a new one !! Confuses others on what you are trying to say. I took your EDIT as your response to my proof, and thats why I raged a little bit :P

 

@others

sorry for derailing thread a little bit.

 

@AnalogAnomaly

Yea I can understand level 130+ enemies will be hard, and I am yet to explore most of other warframes. I have actually built Loki and Banshee, they are still in foundry ready to claim. I can also build rhino, got all its blueprints, but yet to farm for mats. But I am kindda too annoyed farming for rifle multi-shot and still not able to find it ... and when I am farming for mods I am not rushing, I usually do solo exterminate missions for that. So I dont have to keep up with team and can take my time. So many grineers I killed yet no multi-shot so I am kindda little exhausted and took a short break from game, I dont want to risk losing all interest in it. Tnx for your offer in showing me to higher waves of defense missions though.

 

Again: Pls dont EDIT your posts >.>

 

I edit my posts to fix typos and to add content when no other reply has been made. This prevents double-posting which is bad etiquette.

 

Mods are best attained through defense missions. Again, add me in game, i'll help you get heaps of mods and show you a difficulty you probably can't cope with at your current level therefore giving you the more challenging fight you desire while helping fullill objectives. It's a win-win for you and as I currently have every warframe in the game except vauban and frost prime, and every wepaon except the braton vandal- there's not much else for me to do but shepard new players, push myself to higher difficulties, and level crap weapons like the sicarus for mastery points =P

 

By the way, your screenshot shows you with a gorgon and a mastery rank of 1. Shonky business right there =P

In either case i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

 

On an unrelated note, i highly suggest avoiding the rhino until it's un#*($%%@. Banshee and Loki should be fine and fun to play though. =) Or at least banshee (I personally don't care much for loki and like ash much better. but that's personal preference.)

 

In either case, rushing through is still going about the game in a manner contrary to the way it's intended to be played and this is porbably the root cause as to why it seems to dissatisfying for you. There may be other factors, as there are for many people... but the rushing method hurts you and can hurt those whom you play with.

 

My offer to show you higher difficulties especially in defenses remains, hit me up in game if you ever want to take me up on that offer.

 

these can be fun ;-)

[magnaar]

its really hard to judge these threads since Im sure some kids keep playing the very first maps of the game because its more "efficient" to farm or whatever then they complain its too easy. Once the devs do some touch ups they complain its too hard and quit all at once. Its like same story different game each time. There are challenges in the game and its not that easy without a good setup. Most people dont even go past wave 5-10 in defense missions and they complain its too easy. I think the game is fine as it is and Im sure Devs are working on the difficulty with the upcoming new content.

[Aretak]

Not sure what they can do to make it harder though:

 

Higher level enemies is just more health and more damage? That's not particularly hard just mean you need high level gear.

 

Smarter AI? hat's hard and they're already pretty competent aimbots.

 

More enemies? Turns into a spamfest and frames with AoE become meta.

 

Whilst on the easy side there are a lot of mediocre players that are carried by overpowered gear. If the game is to get harder it needs to be because of shooter things, like a variety of enemies that pose different threats (no stun locking or gimmicky sh** though) rather than 'more of everything'.

[Takamori]

Add more enemy varieties with their particular mechanics to counter against.

Some fun way to improve the difficult, the problem is there is a lot of resources being throw to implement such thing.

[ZWarhammer]

Maybe if you stop using potatoes on everything it will feel harder ? If not take off your mods or play a agile but week frame like Loki. Until they add end game content it will always be easy when you potato everything.

[Thypari2013]

The game is easy because the warframes / mods are op.

[Argoms]

Maybe if you stop using potatoes on everything it will feel harder ? If not take off your mods or play a agile but week frame like Loki. Until they add end game content it will always be easy when you potato everything.

Artificial difficulty is not fun.

[Furyoushounen]

Artificial difficulty is not fun.

 

Reading posts where people whine but offer nothing constructive to improve is no fun either. Please, just go play something else for a while until they make more content that meets "your" standards. The rest of us will keep playing in the meantime.

 

Have fun!

[11.11.11]

I just want to say - playing an online mission of Xini mobile defence, on your own. Feels like a major acomplishment if you live to tell the tale. 

[ra9una]

I think this game is brilliant, loads of fun smooth responsive characters that do what you tell them too.

=============================But==========================

Entirely way too easy! you run stuff dies you finish a level? the key to making a game fun is about how challenging it is, how it forces player dynamics that the game designers hadnt planned for, I feel this game has that potential but seems to cater for right handed people playing with their left and visa versa..

Don't make a difficulty setting, just adjust level of enemies per level tier vs amount of players in a squad, making it damn challenging. the harder the better.

 

 

This is ludicrous! For me at least, and certainly another portion of the player base, this is ridiculous. There are just too many things wrong with this.

The first point I would like to make is that how fun a game is varies a lot from person to person and generalizing all those opinions down to how challenging a game is impossible.

Personally, I don't really like challenging video games, silly in a way, I'm aware, but I have real challenges every day in real life so when I play a game, sometimes it's just nice when things go my way just cause.

That said I'm certain lots of people do want a challenge, but the game offers that possibility, solo everything, there, things just got hard. Want to exercise creative use of game mechanics and coop? Get a team together that's super pro, stripe down to basic mods and weapons you can scale this to be equivalent to any difficulty you want, and there, the game just got harder...or insane hard. If you want, you can make it stupid hard.

Now I'm not again adding the option to do ridiculously hard stuff, maybe for extra resources, or just bragging rights, but the game is meant to be fun and while challenges are important, for now the accent is a lot more on enjoying the space ninja game play and just relaxing with a crazy fun game.

In conclusion, stripe all your mods and go solo Xini to wave 80, if you can, I will personally write to the devs and tell them they need to balance out some stuff.

[liavalenth]

Difficulty does not seem to be the main problem, but longevity. At the moment there is no ‘end game’, so currently the only thing to do is get mods and/or go on endless defense missions.  I assume that they are planning something more akin to end game, but in most games end game is PvP. PvP works very well as end game content because it is always evolving, people are adapting all the time. However, I and many others do not want PvP in this game at this time, and I doubt there will ever be a time PvP is really wanted.

 

So what do we do for end game content? Competitive PvE has been suggested a few times. Make two or more teams compete to kill more enemies in a set amount of time, have races between teams or individuals to complete a task as fast as possible, etc. This would have the benefit of evolving like PvP and allow for Clans and groups to have an advantage over PuGs, for better or worse.

 

Another suggestion would be much more difficult missions. Increasing enemy level with a scale would produce that effect, but just increasing the health and damage of enemies does not feel like end game content, just a higher level mission. My suggestion for this one would be to make new Assassination missions with more interesting and challenging bosses. There are a lot of threads on this as well, but I like the idea of bosses that require two or more teams to beat.

 

EDIT: The idea that player-imposed difficulty can take the place of end game content is just not what I or many other people want. You can suggest it until your hands are cramping from typing but I am not going to do it.

Edited May 20, 2013 by liavalenth

[Argoms]

The annoying thing about pve is that there's a cap to what people will find acceptable, even though a player-controlled enemy is likely fully capable of doing more.

 

Shot midair by enemy sniper? Nice shot.

Shot midair by AI sniper? Unfair!

[rksk16it]

So what do we do for end game content? Competitive PvE has been suggested a few times. Make two or more teams compete to kill more enemies in a set amount of time, have races between teams or individuals to complete a task as fast as possible, etc. This would have the benefit of evolving like PvP and allow for Clans and groups to have an advantage over PuGs, for better or worse.

 

This idea is awesome !!!

 

But that will probably also require that players be able to inspect players of other teams, their warframe, weapons, levels, mods, etc, maybe not in a match but after it. Any healthy competition revolves around the idea that opponents learn from your methods and you learn from them. Something like MOBAs where you can see what items enemies are purchasing, so you can counter build against them.

 

Combine that idea with, maybe in distant future, spectator mode, custom tournaments, and all those bells and whistles and warframe can be super exciting, without burdening new players and/or casual players who just want to relax while playing a game and not bother about stressing too hard.

[TennoSkoom]

The annoying thing about pve is that there's a cap to what people will find acceptable, even though a player-controlled enemy is likely fully capable of doing more.

 

Shot midair by enemy sniper? Nice shot.

Shot midair by AI sniper? Unfair!

 

Sadly my experience differs.

 

PVP Game:

Shot midair by enemy sniper? Call them an aimbotter just because they're better than you- and since your bloated ego says you're the best at everything you do- they must be cheating.

PVE Game:

Shot midair by enemy sniper? AI Cheats

PVP Game:

Shot through a wall by a player? Wallhacker! How could you possibly see me run behind that wall?

PVE Game:

shot through a wall by a railgun moa? lameass ai, i can't shoot through walls, why can it?

 

I could go on and on and on with these examples, but it's completely off topic.

[FierceRadiance]

In general I agree that difficulty scaling could be a nice gameplay addition.  But be careful.  I've been playing VGs since the late 70's and I don't have the reflexes I once did.  I beta-tested for an online PVP shooter recently and not only did I never get a single kill over the course of four hours of gameplay, I was never killed by a gun I had access to--every one was a higher-level gun that I couldn't access because I wasn't getting any kills, therefore wasn't getting any XP/cash, therefore didn't qualify/hadn't earned enough cash to acquire them.

 

Granted, part of the issue is my aging skills.  Meh, fact of life, I'm not complaining.  But part of the issue was that IMHO the game difficulty was scaled for the hardcore shooter crowd.  I've played COD & BF with my son, and while I'm no longer very good, I don't yet suck so hard that I can't get kills.  A serious difficulty requirement might be a viable gameplay option for the dev, but I'm not sure it's a viable business model.  That game beta is still running, but I'm no longer testing for them; there wasn't any point to it.

 

Also keep in mind that there is probably a percentage of WF players who just like to be able to run roughshod through levels, overmatching everything that comes at them.  I fall into that category myself, at this advanced stage of my youth.  I'm still interested in 'challenge', but I'm more interested in 'fun'.  There are probably many others out there like me, for a variety of reasons.

 

TL;DR  WF might benefit from a difficult adjustment, but it has to still be able to appeal to people with less skills or run the risk that it can't draw enough support to remain financially viable.

[vieuxchat]

In general I agree that difficulty scaling could be a nice gameplay addition.  But be careful.  I've been playing VGs since the late 70's and I don't have the reflexes I once did.  I beta-tested for an online PVP shooter recently and not only did I never get a single kill over the course of four hours of gameplay, I was never killed by a gun I had access to--every one was a higher-level gun that I couldn't access because I wasn't getting any kills, therefore wasn't getting any XP/cash, therefore didn't qualify/hadn't earned enough cash to acquire them.

 

Granted, part of the issue is my aging skills.  Meh, fact of life, I'm not complaining.  But part of the issue was that IMHO the game difficulty was scaled for the hardcore shooter crowd.  I've played COD & BF with my son, and while I'm no longer very good, I don't yet suck so hard that I can't get kills.  A serious difficulty requirement might be a viable gameplay option for the dev, but I'm not sure it's a viable business model.  That game beta is still running, but I'm no longer testing for them; there wasn't any point to it.

 

Also keep in mind that there is probably a percentage of WF players who just like to be able to run roughshod through levels, overmatching everything that comes at them.  I fall into that category myself, at this advanced stage of my youth.  I'm still interested in 'challenge', but I'm more interested in 'fun'.  There are probably many others out there like me, for a variety of reasons.

 

TL;DR  WF might benefit from a difficult adjustment, but it has to still be able to appeal to people with less skills or run the risk that it can't draw enough support to remain financially viable.

I feel the same. When I play WF I just want to feel powerful. I also like the challenge, but only when I call for it (like a wave 15 on xini with pick up groups of barely level 30 warframes)

[technation]

i am sure they will maker the ai play better soon 

[Argoms]

In general I agree that difficulty scaling could be a nice gameplay addition.  But be careful.  I've been playing VGs since the late 70's and I don't have the reflexes I once did.  I beta-tested for an online PVP shooter recently and not only did I never get a single kill over the course of four hours of gameplay, I was never killed by a gun I had access to--every one was a higher-level gun that I couldn't access because I wasn't getting any kills, therefore wasn't getting any XP/cash, therefore didn't qualify/hadn't earned enough cash to acquire them.

 

Granted, part of the issue is my aging skills.  Meh, fact of life, I'm not complaining.  But part of the issue was that IMHO the game difficulty was scaled for the hardcore shooter crowd.  I've played COD & BF with my son, and while I'm no longer very good, I don't yet suck so hard that I can't get kills.  A serious difficulty requirement might be a viable gameplay option for the dev, but I'm not sure it's a viable business model.  That game beta is still running, but I'm no longer testing for them; there wasn't any point to it.

I think that might be your problem. The only "skill" in games like CoD is reflexes. Minimap means no gamesense is needed, hell you don't even need to aim since you can just flick your cursor in the general direction of enemies. These sort of games can drill into you the fact that reflexes are everything when in shooters that actually require skill, positioning and predicting enemy movements is the hard part- not clicking first.

 

With that said, making the game harder doesn't have to mean requiring better aim or reflexes. It could be in a way that tested how well you know the maps or enemy attack telegraphs etc.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Argoms