Constructive Feedback On The New Bps For Former Credit Weapons

[Loswaith]

Personally for me when i first started (before the credit increase), the cost of some of the weapons like the latron/snipertron (I tend to go for precision weapons in shooter style games) were at a good point for the 50,000 credits, so I do agree with them increasing the credit costs on these.  Previously it felt just enough out of reach (given that you gor about 1-2k credits per mission) that I needed to work to get the credits but not so far out of reach that it was unobtainable, to the point that just as I was tiring of needing to grind for credits that I could buy one of them.  Having the credit pricing for what is essentially the entry weapon variety is a good thing, so having them at around the 75,000 credit mark I can see being a good point with the increased credit earnings so they essentially need some work but not excessive ammounts.

 

The other aspect I felt when starting was that higher weapons used the crafting mechanic as a more a symbol of whats considered an intermediate gameplay and higer.  For the intermediate weapons I needed to have good collection of resources but not too much that its a burden to get them, while the higher end weapons needed allot more resources, like the Hek.  It tended to synergise with the account ranks for weapons well.

 

The Cronus was a good factor of that in that it showed the crafting aspect, but in a way that made me feel like it was something to keep in consideration for the moment but not .

 

All these factors added to the enjoyment of the progression of the game (you needed to put some effort but not excessive effort) that I think will be missed by new players coming into the game at the current point.  Entry level weapons now just need too much work for what is essentially getting a feel for weapon roles and how they fit with each other in the context of the game.

 

TL;DR:

Feel when started:

- Initially credits costs gave good feel that needed work but not excessive ammounts

- selction and choices to suit the typical gameplay that works for me

- Blueprints felt as an intermediate to highend gameplay aspect

 

Potential starter feel now:

 - excessive work to progress

 - potential for making lots of mistakes

 - blueprints are a hurdle/hoop to jump through more than a gameplay aspect.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Loswaith

[Bleak_Advent]

Personally for me when i first started (before the credit increase), the cost of some of the weapons like the latron/snipertron (I tend to go for precision weapons in shooter style games) were at a good point for the 50,000 credits, so I do agree with them increasing the credit costs on these.  Previously it felt just enough out of reach (given that you gor about 1-2k credits per mission) that I needed to work to get the credits but not so far out of reach that it was unobtainable, to the point that just as I was tiring of needing to grind for credits that I could buy one of them.  Having the credit pricing for what is essentially the entry weapon variety is a good thing, so having them at around the 75,000 credit mark I can see being a good point with the increased credit earnings so they essentially need some work but not excessive ammounts.

 

The other aspect I felt when starting was that higher weapons used the crafting mechanic as a more a symbol of whats considered an intermediate gameplay and higer.  For the intermediate weapons I needed to have good collection of resources but not too much that its a burden to get them, while the higher end weapons needed allot more resources, like the Hek.  It tended to synergise with the account ranks for weapons well.

 

The Cronus was a good factor of that in that it showed the crafting aspect, but in a way that made me feel like it was something to keep in consideration for the moment but not .

 

All these factors added to the enjoyment of the progression of the game (you needed to put some effort but not excessive effort) that I think will be missed by new players coming into the game at the current point.  Entry level weapons now just need too much work for what is essentially getting a feel for weapon roles and how they fit with each other in the context of the game.

 

TL;DR:

Feel when started:

- Initially credits costs gave good feel that needed work but not excessive ammounts

- selction and choices to suit the typical gameplay that works for me

- Blueprints felt as an intermediate to highend gameplay aspect

 

Potential starter feel now:

 - excessive work to progress

 - potential for making lots of mistakes

 - blueprints are a hurdle/hoop to jump through more than a gameplay aspect.

Personally for me when i first started (before the credit increase), the cost of some of the weapons like the latron/snipertron (I tend to go for precision weapons in shooter style games) were at a good point for the 50,000 credits, so I do agree with them increasing the credit costs on these.  Previously it felt just enough out of reach (given that you gor about 1-2k credits per mission) that I needed to work to get the credits but not so far out of reach that it was unobtainable, to the point that just as I was tiring of needing to grind for credits that I could buy one of them.  Having the credit pricing for what is essentially the entry weapon variety is a good thing, so having them at around the 75,000 credit mark I can see being a good point with the increased credit earnings so they essentially need some work but not excessive ammounts.

 

The other aspect I felt when starting was that higher weapons used the crafting mechanic as a more a symbol of whats considered an intermediate gameplay and higer.  For the intermediate weapons I needed to have good collection of resources but not too much that its a burden to get them, while the higher end weapons needed allot more resources, like the Hek.  It tended to synergise with the account ranks for weapons well.

 

The Cronus was a good factor of that in that it showed the crafting aspect, but in a way that made me feel like it was something to keep in consideration for the moment but not .

 

All these factors added to the enjoyment of the progression of the game (you needed to put some effort but not excessive effort) that I think will be missed by new players coming into the game at the current point.  Entry level weapons now just need too much work for what is essentially getting a feel for weapon roles and how they fit with each other in the context of the game.

 

TL;DR:

Feel when started:

- Initially credits costs gave good feel that needed work but not excessive ammounts

- selction and choices to suit the typical gameplay that works for me

- Blueprints felt as an intermediate to highend gameplay aspect

 

Potential starter feel now:

 - excessive work to progress

 - potential for making lots of mistakes

 - blueprints are a hurdle/hoop to jump through more than a gameplay aspect.

I think that sums everything up perfectly. Thanks for the great addition to the discussion.

[BlueEden]

The BPs not telling you what to farm for crafting is also a big hurdle for new players. Making them look on a 3rd party site is unreasonable.

I can see new players getting discouraged with the BP roulette. How about this one? Nope, requires 400 alloy plate, ah well, I'll try another one...

[HailCreation]

I would say a fair suggestion for new players is that you're allowed to pick ONE of the rank 1 weapons for free, similar to how you can pick a warframe to start but must build the other starter frames. 

[BlueEden]

I would say a fair suggestion for new players is that you're allowed to pick ONE of the rank 1 weapons for free, similar to how you can pick a warframe to start but must build the other starter frames.

I think they should have three options per weapon category (primary, secondary, melee) or a package of well paired weapons. For example, a sniper package might contain a Snipetron or Latron, furis and a Skana or fang. Whatever balances the best for a starting player and gives enough flexibility to do a variety of missions.

[Bleak_Advent]

I think they should have three options per weapon category (primary, secondary, melee) or a package of well paired weapons. For example, a sniper package might contain a Snipetron or Latron, furis and a Skana or fang. Whatever balances the best for a starting player and gives enough flexibility to do a variety of missions.

I like the idea of choosing a starting loadout from a pool of low-tier weapons or choosing a package based on play preference. It's a fair alternative. Although a crafting cost rework or reversal of the credit to blueprint change would be just as acceptable a solution.

[CorrTerek]

As a fairly new player (been playing for only a month) I thought I'd give my take on this situation. 

 

My brother-in-law invited me to play Warframe. When I first started out I felt pretty restricted by the weapon choices. I didn't realize that the prices listed in the store (ex. Burston, 35000 Credits, 95 Platinum) were an either-or situation -- that is, I thought that I would have to pay both platinum and credits to buy the new weapons. When I bought a blueprint, I was somewhat dismayed by the amount of grinding involved, especially since I thought it was my only way to get new weapons without shelling out real money. I was pretty close to uninstalling the game and never giving it another shot. 

 

Then I realized I could actually buy some of those weapons with credits! My problems were over, and I had a lot of fun testing out new weapons and gladly spent some cash on the game. I even started buying blueprints, because I realized I could try out other things while I farmed for materials. So it was all good. 

 

What this latest update DE has made my initial impression of the game more or less reality. If other people feel the way I did when I first started out, I don't see how they're going to keep attracting new players. 

Edited May 22, 2013 by CorrTerek

[XXX420w33D4lYf3]

Am I the only one who thinks the 5000 ferrite requirement for the gorgon is really excessive? Up until a week ago I could have bought it with 50,000 credits. I could make that in a couple of hours versus farming ferrite for days. I wish the devs would have a "if it aint broke, dont fix it" mentality instead of sticking their D in the game.

 

I love his game; In my opinion, its one of the best I have played in a while, but there are more serious issues than the ability to buy wepons that need to be adressed.

I give the new update 2 thumbs down

[Eltoshan]

Since it doesn't appear as if anyone's pointed it out yet, Rebecca made an addendum to the community hot topics thread saying recipes were going to be looked at and changed, with more info coming later.

 

Just thought someone might enjoy that tidbit! Let's see what happens. Steve also said something on twitter that hinted at possibly making alloy easier to get instead of changing blueprint materials around on people who were already working on them, for whatever it's worth.

[Bleak_Advent]

Just because things are being looked at, doesn't mean we can't offer up feedback. The more ideas that are brought to the table, the better. Thanks nonetheless for adding the comment for those who may not read the Hot Topics or follow the devs on Twitter.

[Eltoshan]

Just because things are being looked at, doesn't mean we can't offer up feedback. The more ideas that are brought to the table, the better. Thanks nonetheless for adding the comment for those who may not read the Hot Topics or follow the devs on Twitter.

Oh, yeah, I'm not saying to stop and wait or anything, it was just a quick heads-up since I was rather pleased to notice that today.

 

I am keeping my fingers crossed, though!

[Bleak_Advent]

Oh, yeah, I'm not saying to stop and wait or anything, it was just a quick heads-up since I was rather pleased to notice that today.

 

I am keeping my fingers crossed, though!

Fairly certain this thread got some traction though, as the addendum addressed every major concern that has been brought up here. If anyone out there has more ideas, feel free to post them here!

[Diremongoose]

I was very disappointed with this change to weapon acquisition. As a latecomer to the Warframe beta, I don't have massive stockpiles of resources to use in crafting - everything I've crafted has had to be farmed, giving me an abudance of credits (~100-200k normally) but fairly limited crafting resources.

 

If I'd had some notice I'd have used my limited platinum reserves to buy slots and my cash to get all the cash weapons I hadn't maxed, but this update has left quite a bitter taste in my mouth. There are a quite a few weapons I'm never going to touch now.

[Bleak_Advent]

I was very disappointed with this change to weapon acquisition. As a latecomer to the Warframe beta, I don't have massive stockpiles of resources to use in crafting - everything I've crafted has had to be farmed, giving me an abudance of credits (~100-200k normally) but fairly limited crafting resources.

 

If I'd had some notice I'd have used my limited platinum reserves to buy slots and my cash to get all the cash weapons I hadn't maxed, but this update has left quite a bitter taste in my mouth. There are a quite a few weapons I'm never going to touch now.

The whole "too much too fast" as far as updates are concerned, is mentioned in the May 19th hot topics. Also, there have been numerous threads about calling for more of a heads up from the devs when it comes to these sudden changes. Hopefully the recipe rework mentioned in the recent addendum remedies the acquisition hardships for players like you.

[freakystupi]

I thought the limited in game cash options with bp or plat for all the higher lvl weapons was good dont know why you changed it whoever had that idea needs to stop hiting himself with the stupid stick REALY stop it makes me SAD.

 

i personaly think this is a pretty stupid idea because it cuts new plays who arnt pay to play out of weapon options and as soon as you do that you lose 50% or more of them because they look at it go ohh all plat or farming im out.You need to get the free to play people hocked so the become founders like i did i started free to play liked it became a founder i can honestly say that if it was how it is now when i started i would of walked away.

 

ohh and FIX CORPUS MOBILE DEF just an idea

[Moondancer]

I noticed yesterday btw that you can now buy Lex, Aklatos and a few other weapons for credits again They are more then what they were but available for purchase.

[Bleak_Advent]

I thought the limited in game cash options with bp or plat for all the higher lvl weapons was good dont know why you changed it whoever had that idea needs to stop hiting himself with the stupid stick REALY stop it makes me SAD.

 

i personaly think this is a pretty stupid idea because it cuts new plays who arnt pay to play out of weapon options and as soon as you do that you lose 50% or more of them because they look at it go ohh all plat or farming im out.You need to get the free to play people hocked so the become founders like i did i started free to play liked it became a founder i can honestly say that if it was how it is now when i started i would of walked away.

 

ohh and FIX CORPUS MOBILE DEF just an idea

I think the key to getting more players willing to open their wallets is to make the early game very accessible. This means making a small portion of weapons more easily purchased or crafted from the perspective of the new player. Creating that accessible early game encourages people to invest more time and/or money in the game, over the long term.

I noticed yesterday btw that you can now buy Lex, Aklatos and a few other weapons for credits again They are more then what they were but available for purchase.

If that's the case (been off the game due to vacation), raising credit cost is something I'd be fine with.

[LKFaerie]

A lot of people have been talking about the entry barrier to new players, I am a new player, and I was having a blast playing the game while saving credits for my latron, and farming mats for my bolto.

 

moments ago I passed my first trial, headed to the shop, and discovered i can no longer buy a latron. so what was previously having fun while working towards multiple simultaneous goals, is now just farming alloy. farming isnt fun, and I'm honestly not sure I can be bothered to keep playing.

 

It is important to have easily achievable goals/upgrades for new comers to get while they build up to the harder to achieve ones. I would suggest either having more low tier weapons costing credits, or have a more defined crafting tier system, so that low tier items can be crafted rapidly from only early world materials.

[Bleak_Advent]

A lot of people have been talking about the entry barrier to new players, I am a new player, and I was having a blast playing the game while saving credits for my latron, and farming mats for my bolto.

 

moments ago I passed my first trial, headed to the shop, and discovered i can no longer buy a latron. so what was previously having fun while working towards multiple simultaneous goals, is now just farming alloy. farming isnt fun, and I'm honestly not sure I can be bothered to keep playing.

 

It is important to have easily achievable goals/upgrades for new comers to get while they build up to the harder to achieve ones. I would suggest either having more low tier weapons costing credits, or have a more defined crafting tier system, so that low tier items can be crafted rapidly from only early world materials.

Exactly why there needs to be a change.

[Drakontis]

Personally, I've been playing for about a month. I have enough experience with the F2P model to know that anything that said Credits/Platinum was going to be an either or. Anyways, that aside, I burned through grabbing weapons pretty quickly. Within a month of play, I got every single firearm in my inventory. I bought platinum to be able to hold them all. I like learning the different nuances of each weapon. The ammo economy, the damage I could expect, etc. Major reason I bought platinum was that the guns were readily accessible to new players. I liked that aspect. I've had some mixed feelings about F2P games because while they're fun, they also seem to delve into the Pay to Win business type. *cough* Combat Arms *cough cough cough*. Anyways, I got founders mainly for slots, to be able to grab everything I could and experiment with it all and have fun. 

 

However, seeing the weapons as they are now, I don't like that as much. I don't get that sense of "Look at all the stuff I can get!", I get the sense of "Look at all the crap I have to farm for..." instead. And I think it's bad for them to go down that particular road. It's been expressed by several people that Alloy Plates are a low drop both in rate and pickup amounts. Currently, if the BP's stay the same (hopefully they won't), the game will become KisteFrame: Alloy Plate Farmville. I liked going through the different areas and such, enjoyed exploring everything, etc etc. But if I had come across the game as it is now, found out that Kiste was the way to go for Alloy Plates, then I'd have just stuck farming Kiste and getting more and more alloy plates. And currently, that's what I'm doing now because I have like 6 helmets to build. And it's not really all that fun. But I manage. 

[Sagonene]

Guns are metal, therefore we need lots of metal in convenient alloy plates.

So why not a new 5k blueprint for 100 alloy plates requiring 400 ferrite, 500 salvage and 5k credits, takes 6 hours to bake. Maybe nanospores are a key component of rubedo. Has a significant process time so it cant be spammed, minor credit cost, common component costs.

[Bleak_Advent]

Personally, I've been playing for about a month. I have enough experience with the F2P model to know that anything that said Credits/Platinum was going to be an either or. Anyways, that aside, I burned through grabbing weapons pretty quickly. Within a month of play, I got every single firearm in my inventory. I bought platinum to be able to hold them all. I like learning the different nuances of each weapon. The ammo economy, the damage I could expect, etc. Major reason I bought platinum was that the guns were readily accessible to new players. I liked that aspect. I've had some mixed feelings about F2P games because while they're fun, they also seem to delve into the Pay to Win business type. *cough* Combat Arms *cough cough cough*. Anyways, I got founders mainly for slots, to be able to grab everything I could and experiment with it all and have fun. 

 

However, seeing the weapons as they are now, I don't like that as much. I don't get that sense of "Look at all the stuff I can get!", I get the sense of "Look at all the crap I have to farm for..." instead. And I think it's bad for them to go down that particular road. It's been expressed by several people that Alloy Plates are a low drop both in rate and pickup amounts. Currently, if the BP's stay the same (hopefully they won't), the game will become KisteFrame: Alloy Plate Farmville. I liked going through the different areas and such, enjoyed exploring everything, etc etc. But if I had come across the game as it is now, found out that Kiste was the way to go for Alloy Plates, then I'd have just stuck farming Kiste and getting more and more alloy plates. And currently, that's what I'm doing now because I have like 6 helmets to build. And it's not really all that fun. But I manage.

The alloy certainly doesn't make foundry crafting impossible, just inaccessible to most and only manageable to players who have the patience or have played the game for some time. Reworks are happening, according to a recent addendum to the community hot topics. We just need to find that middle ground that encourages exploration and experimentation without being overwhelming. I think with the current state of credit income, we need some added difficulty to acquisition, but we need to bear in mind that portion of the playerbase which is relatively new to Warframe. By encouraging those players to keep playing, it benefits everyone involved.

[BlueEden]

Guns are metal, therefore we need lots of metal in convenient alloy plates.

So why not a new 5k blueprint for 100 alloy plates requiring 400 ferrite, 500 salvage and 5k credits, takes 6 hours to bake. Maybe nanospores are a key component of rubedo. Has a significant process time so it cant be spammed, minor credit cost, common component costs.

You can print a AR-15 style gun with a plastic 3D desktop printer. It needs a metal firing pin, tested with over 600 rounds through it. Guns are plastic, swords and lobsters are made of metal! ;)

It's not unreasonable for guns of the future having lots of polymer parts.

I like the idea of Wonder Twins power of an Alloy Plate though.