But What The Heck Has Happened To The Market?

[BoswerLK]

oh, actually, you know what's hilarious?

 

I just realized lockers have been nerfed. again. good job DE

[Arlayn]

Most of the gear can be built with items from Saturn, Mars, and Venus... if that is too hard to collect SIMPLE items from those places then you need more practice... or get some of the people in this thread to come with you to get these materials.

 

Edit: also my theory on why it changed https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/46493-why-i-think-the-market-changed-makes-sense/#entry471194

Edited May 19, 2013 by Arlayn

[Guest]

Most of the gear can be built with items from Saturn, Mars, and Venus... if that is too hard to collect SIMPLE items from those places then you need more practice... or get some of the people in this thread to come with you to get these materials.

 

Edit: also my theory on why it changed https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/46493-why-i-think-the-market-changed-makes-sense/#entry471194

The Alloy Plate drops on Venus are pathetic. There's a reason everybody farms Kiste, because there's no other worthwhile area to farm the stuff.

[Naed]

12*12 is not anywhere near 350, last I checked. and try your own experiment and make note of the time it took

 

12-50 in a mission is a ridiculously generous estimate anyways. 50 would require 3-4 AP drops. back in the old abort/fail mission spam days, you'd be considered lucky to find just 2 APs cleaning out everything in the defense map

 

Selective listing of a "range" of numbers is indeed ... a selective listing from a "range" of numbers.

 

In all seriousness, Ive done the experiment, and what that "new" (or old) player would be doing, was playing the game. I dont know why it is people keep on hammering on and on about reasons for not actually playing the game ...

 

 

 

 

The Alloy Plate drops on Venus are pathetic. There's a reason everybody farms Kiste, because there's no other worthwhile area to farm the stuff.

 

No, the reason they want to do them on kiste is they want the drops to come to them if possible. People are lazy.

 

And todays bonus "fact" : They dont like being told that they are.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Naed

[BoswerLK]

Selective listing of a "range" of numbers is indeed ... a selective listing from a "range" of numbers.

 

In all seriousness, Ive done the experiment, and what that "new" (or old) player would be doing, was playing the game. I dont know why it is people keep on hammering on and on about reasons for not actually playing the game ...

 

 

 

 

 

No, the reason they want to do them on kiste is they want the drops to come to them if possible. People are lazy.

 

And todays bonus "fact" : They dont like being told that they are.

selective listing of a range of numbers is also known as pulling random numbers out of your &#!

 

 

being efficient = being lazy? really?

 

and ceres has a very noticable higher drop rate for alloy, from both mobs and lockers. the real reason people farm kiste specifically is actually for the massive spawn rate anyways, which leads to more exp, mods, and mats. that it's on the planet with the highest drop rate for alloy is just a bonus. kappa has a rather unimpressive drop rate for alloy, and that's even more popular than kiste cuz of the much lower def on enemies, resulting in faster kills, and thus, even more mods

 

the main priority for both kiste and kappa farmers is usually multishot. and since you're so fond of facts....consider this. I've been farming kiste/kappa for probably a month now in search of the elusive barrel diffusion. both with drastically higher drop rates for alloy than venus, and I only have 3.2k alloy plates....in a whole month of the most efficient farming method possible for them. and that 3.2k includes whatever APs I had before I started my mad multishot hunt. that's enough to make 5-6 weapons. that's not a good thing

[Naed]

selective listing of a range of numbers is also known as pulling random numbers out of your &#!

 

 

being efficient = being lazy? really?

 

and ceres has a very noticable higher drop rate for alloy, from both mobs and lockers. the real reason people farm kiste specifically is actually for the massive spawn rate anyways, which leads to more exp, mods, and mats. that it's on the planet with the highest drop rate for alloy is just a bonus. kappa has a rather unimpressive drop rate for alloy, and that's even more popular than kiste cuz of the much lower def on enemies, resulting in faster kills, and thus, even more mods

 

the main priority for both kiste and kappa farmers is usually multishot. and since you're so fond of facts....consider this. I've been farming kiste/kappa for probably a month now in search of the elusive barrel diffusion. both with drastically higher drop rates for alloy than venus, and I only have 3.2k alloy plates....in a whole month of the most efficient farming method possible for them. and that 3.2k includes whatever APs I had before I started my mad multishot hunt. that's enough to make 5-6 weapons. that's not a good thing

 

Thats a very weird place to store numbers, but to each his own. :-)

 

Let try this: What is the chance that if people farm a specific place that drops a specific item that it will "seem/look" like that place is the "best" place for it ?

 

Ive linked this numerous times already, and i do owe Notso more "thank you's" for it :)

 

But it looks like (based on your posts) that you dont understand (for a lack of a better word, there i no negative meaning behind it from me) how the statistics of the rng "can" work. I would highly recommend that you read his very informative post on the subject.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/45426-please-read-this-before-posting-about-drop-rates/

 

I think that should cover all heads and tails of your post, if not, please point out what ive neglected to answer.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Naed

[Spiritcloak]

Hopefully with all this controversy going on something will arise to help alot of people out. New players and Older players will both have a side and hopefully changes will occur to resolve issues.

[BoswerLK]

Thats a very weird place to store numbers, but to each his own. :-)

 

Let try this: What is the chance that if people farm a specific place that drops a specific item that it will "seem/look" like that place is the "best" place for it ?

 

Ive linked this numerous times already, and i do owe Notso more "thank you's" for it :)

 

But it looks like (based on your posts) that you dont understand (for a lack of a better word, there i no negative meaning behind it from me) how the statistics of the rng "can" work. I would highly recommend that you read his very informative post on the subject.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/45426-please-read-this-before-posting-about-drop-rates/

 

I think that should cover all heads and tails of your post, if not, please point out what ive neglected to answer.

rng =/= equal chance everywhere. if rng means everything had an equal rate of occurrence, then all weapons would have a 50% crit rate

 

let's look at an extreme example. morphics on mercury vs pluto. you can finish all of mercury, open everything, kill the cronus guy, and you might get 1-2 morphics if you're lucky. pluto, try to get the indoors defense map (the xini one). bust open everything. get 6-10 morphics

 

yes, it's possible that you can get a morphics in every single container and enemy on mercury, and get 0 on all of pluto. that doesn't mean the drop rate is equal on both planets

 

 

what you're saying doesn't even have anything to do with that post. he's saying drop rates are the same for everyone. you're saying drop rates are the same for every planet. 2 entirely different statements

[Naed]

rng =/= equal chance everywhere. if rng means everything had an equal rate of occurrence, then all weapons would have a 50% crit rate

 

let's look at an extreme example. morphics on mercury vs pluto. you can finish all of mercury, open everything, kill the cronus guy, and you might get 1-2 morphics if you're lucky. pluto, try to get the indoors defense map (the xini one). bust open everything. get 6-10 morphics

 

yes, it's possible that you can get a morphics in every single container and enemy on mercury, and get 0 on all of pluto. that doesn't mean the drop rate is equal on both planets

 

 

what you're saying doesn't even have anything to do with that post. he's saying drop rates are the same for everyone. you're saying drop rates are the same for every planet. 2 entirely different statements

 

I never said there was equal chance everywhere. I merely posted an example of a rather simple test that people could do.

 

In a rng system, the only "fact" we have is the "outcome/result"

 

We dont know the rules for the drops neither do we know the (system coded) droprate for anything.

 

When you "only" farm one spot for a specific "item", then all you can conclude afterwards was that for "you", on that specific spot, the droprate was "xyz".

 

What the forum is doing, and it was VERY obvious when the banshee blueprints was just released, was confirming each others "fact" with their own "fact", which in a rng system, aint possible at all.

 

in a pseudo rng, it is. But so far, from what ive seen of DE's solution, this isnt a pseudo. (and yes, there are technicalities etc etc, but i hope you understand my point)

 

What Notso is doing is putting some numbers on it, where the math is right (last i looked), but the "facts" are madeup for the purpose of giving people a way of trying to understand "how" the rng system "can" work.

 

I hope that clarified it a bit.

 

Sorry for not being clearer in my previous post.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Naed

[BoswerLK]

I never said there was equal chance everywhere. I merely posted an example of a rather simple test that people could do.

 

In a rng system, the only "fact" we have is the "outcome/result"

 

We dont know the rules for the drops neither do we know the (system coded) droprate for anything.

 

When you "only" farm one spot for a specific "item", then all you can conclude afterwards was that for "you", on that specific spot, the droprate was "xyz".

 

What the forum is doing, and it was VERY obvious when the banshee blueprints was just released, was confirming each others "fact" with their own "fact", which in a rng system, aint possible at all.

 

in a pseudo rng, it is. But so far, from what ive seen of DE's solution, this isnt a pseudo. (and yes, there are technicalities etc etc, but i hope you understand my point)

 

What Notso is doing is putting some numbers on it, where the math is right (last i looked), but the "facts" are madeup for the purpose of giving people a way of trying to understand "how" the rng system "can" work.

 

I hope that clarified it a bit.

 

Sorry for not being clearer in my previous post.

oh, yeah. I see what you're saying, and I do agree with it as a general statement

 

that doesn't make kiste not the most efficient farming spot for AP in the game though. just by the sheer spawn rate alone, even if the drop rate was the same as venus, it would easily trump it by rolling the rng for it at a much higher rolls/sec

[Naed]

oh, yeah. I see what you're saying, and I do agree with it as a general statement

 

that doesn't make kiste not the most efficient farming spot for AP in the game though. just by the sheer spawn rate alone, even if the drop rate was the same as venus, it would easily trump it by rolling the rng for it at a much higher rolls/sec

In "theory" yes.

 

And the "problem" (in a funny way ( and i do mean that)) is that is close to impossible to "test". :)

 

What ofc plays into it is the perceived "fun" in smashing a bunch of mobs VS smashing containers/opening lockers

 

One makes the time pass very quickly VS the other can almost make you travel back in time. (your mileage may vary)

 

lot of back and forth put in a short form: It would be nice if people could understand/comprehend the way RNG "can" work :)

 

And with that, thank you for the debate :)