pixelsafoison Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 I just wanted to rant about how unacceptable I find that DE is selling us UNFINISHED (or more likely unpolished) items.. -> I bought the glaive the hour it came out with plat, I liked the new toy but the whole lag thing made me grow disgusted of it after a while (I still am among the first people to have leveled it to 30). -> Now Vauban comes out, "whoot! it even wears the name of one of my country's most famous war engineers", and the whole "I LOVE THIS THING!" goes on (I even bought the alt helmet) until I unlock enough mod slots to fit vauban's 4th .... I throw the grenaaaade aaaaand.... nothing O_o, so off to the wiki I go and read that I HAVE to equip all the useless skills for it to work AND even then it doesn't even work 100% of the time... Now my vauban is level 30 and flawed, 375 plat on a frame that has a bugged 4th. I love warframe ^^, but I don't like being sold faulty stuff. If you plan on making an item "Plat only" (come on, the "you can get it from alerts" thing is just something to make the "P2W! THE END IS NEAR!" people shut up) then please make sure that it at least WORKS ... and to all those fanboys that are about to flood me with "this is beta!" NO THIS ISN'T BETA IF I HAVE TO PAY 15€ FOR A FRAME! I don't want a refund I don't want a hug I just want ONE person checking if the toy you're about to release WORKS o_o Thanks in advance, otherwise there are plenty of other games that will be worth my cash i'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 NO THIS ISN'T BETA IF I HAVE TO PAY 15€ FOR A FRAME! I don't see how that changes things, to be honest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feldgrep Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Only 300 plat I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelsafoison Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 I don't see how that changes things, to be honest? Meh people usually use this argument to pretend that it's only natural that the game's a bug hive (there are so many bugs out there that it might actually become sentient) - I don't mind bugs ... but not on stuff ment to be paid with real money, it makes me feel "you're milking me like a cow aren't you? ^^" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelsafoison Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 Only 300 plat I believe. 375 with helmet if you read my post O_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrkitao Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Vauban is one of the few frames with no worthless skills... I mean until they nerf tesla... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feldgrep Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 375 with helmet if you read my post O_o Oh, you didn't make it clear that included the helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 This is one of the limited threads where the "It's a beta" argument applies. Expecting something to be perfect and polished and wonderful just because you paid some money for it, with full knowledge that the game is, in fact, in beta, is ridiculous. If there are issues then you should report them. But to say "Oh bugs are fine except on things that I spend money on" is outrageous. The bugs you've cited either have been fixed or will be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoirProxy Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 All the stuff they release barely works at first. This is probably because they can't afford testers and so are using the community to do it instead...with money. To be honest seeing as it is in open BETA I still don't understand why stuff has a price tag on it without it working in the first place. I mean I chose the reset because half of the stuff I bought with Platinum is broken crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkroc Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 I agree with the OP,Even if it is in BETA it doesnt matter. If you are going to pay for something with Real Money then it needs to work right off the bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelsafoison Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 This is one of the limited threads where the "It's a beta" argument applies. Expecting something to be perfect and polished and wonderful just because you paid some money for it, with full knowledge that the game is, in fact, in beta, is ridiculous. If there are issues then you should report them. But to say "Oh bugs are fine except on things that I spend money on" is outrageous. nope. what i'm saying is that yes it's a beta there ARE a lot of bugs, and i'm sure dedicated teams are fixing bugs all day long ... BUT, if you release something that is ment to be paid with real money only (let's be honnest) I find it unacceptable to pull out the "this is beta" banner excuse, you cannot grind vauban ATM, it's not part of the "ninjas play free" campaign... And as with anything that is ment to be paid with cash => Don't sell crap or you'll piss off the customer. I have around 230H ingame and this is the first time i'm actually truly pissed at DE -- PS: I do have a life, I just have that wonderful lil' illness called cancer that forces me to stay in bed quite a lot with a lot of free time (flamers will think "at least you won't get on DE's nerves much longer =D" i'm sure ^^ <3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodHaven Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 I think DE has been very clear about this, if you're gonna make a post at least have something constructive they can bring back to the desk. Saying "Oh i spent money this should be perfect" in a beta game is rather ignorant to say the least. You aren't suppose to be buying it to have a perfect weapon, the platinum buyers are the ones who have the most feedback abilities, You are the tester, Find those bugs and report em so when that guy who is a F2Player finally grinds it, they have a perfect weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armanant Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) I'm in software development. Here are your options: 1) Warframes come out and development happens as it is now. Yes, there will be bugs. You can help by reporting them, and they will be fixed. 2) DE iterates on stuff until it's bug free. This will mean patches come out every 6-12 months instead of weekly, and a warframe will cost in the ballpark of $10,000USD to recoup costs. A lot of people say you can't have bug-free software. They're not quite right. you can have bug-free software if you're willing to pay 100-1000x the price. Edit: Spelling. Edited May 19, 2013 by Armanant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephyrFlow Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Shouldn't you get what you pay for even if it's beta? I mean, what's wrong with a lil check here and there? If it brings satisfaction to both parties, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iPrevenge Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) He's right, to an extent. You can't expect everything released during a beta to work perfectly. But AT THE VERY LEAST, you should be able to expect that the skills do work, most of the time. (Which his ult does not) It is very apparent that Vauban was released with an unfinished ultimate, which can fail 50% of the time you use it, for mannnnny different reasons. It truly does feel like it was provided to us in place of the late update 8, but was not ready to be released for the same reasons as update 8. Unfinished. Edit: I'm not hating, I still love Vauban and was rank 30 in an hour and a half, with the use of an affinity booster and bought the helm too. Can't wait til he's up and running properly. Still can't help myself from feeling a bit "ripped-off/deceived" Edited May 19, 2013 by iPrevenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiry Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) Koreans keep their games for years in betas, and still release them with bugs sometimes. Whats fun thing here - we pay money ( quite much i must say,compare to MOST of the games out there ) to beta test their game ;). And even then - they keep releasing stuff with such obvius bugs, more over - they sell those stuffs, the guy here is right, is there a single man testing how the game mechanics works? If there is - i suggest you to put another one doing it job . Edited May 19, 2013 by Kiry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehJumpingJawa Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 I have sympathy with the OP, and agree that a degree of due diligence is expected when money is exchanging hands *even in a beta*. However I have another concern that is rather more insidious. Anyone who has seen Vauban's Tesla ability has to agree that it's obviously OP. So obvious in fact that I'm suspicious as to whether this was intentional to boost sales. (people wanting to get in on the hilarity). If the warframe is later hit with the nerf bat to bring its abilities in-line with the others (highly likely), would it be unreasonable to consider this a bait & switch? Sure, there's always the option to reset your account - but that's not an unconditional refund, it's more akin to a credit voucher. (not to mention the destruction it causes to everything else you've obtained) I guess what I'm suggesting is that until the game officially leaves beta, all platinum purchases should be 100% refundable. (on the grounds that the game is changing so frequently, and drastically that the value of the goods[virtual currency] purchased is equally as volatile) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelsafoison Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 I have sympathy with the OP, and agree that a degree of due diligence is expected when money is exchanging hands *even in a beta*. However I have another concern that is rather more insidious. Anyone who has seen Vauban's Tesla ability has to agree that it's obviously OP. So obvious in fact that I'm suspicious as to whether this was intentional to boost sales. (people wanting to get in on the hilarity). If the warframe is later hit with the nerf bat to bring its abilities in-line with the others (highly likely), would it be unreasonable to consider this a bait & switch? Sure, there's always the option to reset your account - but that's not an unconditional refund, it's more akin to a credit voucher. (not to mention the destruction it causes to everything else you've obtained) I guess what I'm suggesting is that until the game officially leaves beta, all platinum purchases should be 100% refundable. (on the grounds that the game is changing so frequently, and drastically that the value of the goods[virtual currency] purchased is equally as volatile) Vauban's first isnt OP to be honnest, it's his only useful ability ATM - the jumping thing is a joke, and the "levitating cage of uselessness" doesn't even work on bosses or rollers. Vauban's first only really works against the corpus too, it's like volt's lil' trapper brother - against the grineer it's weak and the infested will laugh at your petty attempt to damage them. But yeah, it might be a bait and switch ... anyway ... they knew that they were selling people an unfinished frame with bugged abilities - they knew vauban's 4th would be a paper ball until they can patch it and god knows how long it'll take (1 week? 2 weeks? a month? u10? are you waiting for me to die first? I'm so tired of this whole "GIVE ME YOUR MONEY!" crap that is getting all over the place lately, everything's turning into a plat drain, i'd be fine with paying for virtual stuff (I always have been, items may be virtual but the work behind said virtual items is not) if i knew for sure that i would be having fun with it ... and until now I supported at 100% paying with plat, but my expectations for plat items are not the same as the ones for grinded items... If i buy stuff with real money I have the right to expect something WORTHY of my cash, not a bugged down unfinished frame no matter what the fanboys that cleanse DE's boots all day long may be saying. I feel like I won't bother with warframe much longer anyway, i'll wait for U8, see the direction DE's taking and depending on that either become addicted again or spend my cash somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balter Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 If Vauban was an Armor piercing version of volt or ember with no new mechanics I would completely agree. Since they could copy abilities that work and give them different damage values. But he is a new frame and his abilities are different enough that the coding on them might not be perfect. Granted I do agree, to a point. He should have been tested more internally. But really Im finding it hard to see anything beyond some slightly justified frustration and "I got the new shiny toy as soon as it came out, it has problems, its horrible and I shouldn't have paid for it". Its not like Vauban is incredibly weak or horrible. In fact hes being received as a fairly well put-together frame better than most, that has useful abilites... when they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelsafoison Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 Im finding it hard to see anything beyond some slightly justified frustration and "I got the new shiny toy as soon as it came out, it has problems, its horrible and I shouldn't have paid for it". Vauban isn't bad, but what pisses me off is the behaviour of the devs "okay it's unfinished it's ult is a paper ball some of it's attacks get stuck in ceilings etc - let's just throw it at the milk cows =D, also let's sell avatars 30 plat per pack and make weapons plat and blooprint only, let's also put our new warframe as an alert drop, let's also sell our latest mods with plat packs!.... etc" the game is starting to reek with the smell of greed ... they don't give a S#&$ about selling us an unfinished frame or weapon or whatever for money ... And that's the kind of inconsiderate behaviour that makes Korean MMOs so bad... Is this warframe's future? EvE Online's community managed to give a kick to the balls of it's devs when they went too far, I doubt warframe's community would be capabe of doing so too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanspaceman Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 its a BETA, and yo expect finished stuff here ? what an irrational way of thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKhaun Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) 1) Lets put this 'beta' stuff to rest right now. YES being beta is an excuse for Vaubon's bugs, because Vaubon is trying new things. You expect them to throw out a pet/drone based Warframe straight away (as many have requested) with no bugs? Expand what Sentinels do? NPC allies? Of course not. You need to work up to it. Putting basic targeting and interactions into static deployables is the obvious first step. 2) Props to the devs because compared to some other games, even mainstream games by major developers. This game is fantastic. I stuck with this game from the word go SPECIFICALLY because the base game is astoundingly stable. Moving around and shooting/dodging stuff is flawless and fun. 3) Your logic also falls through because you can't actually buy Vaubon. You buy plat. Vaubon is not the game, he's just an option within it like any other frame or weapon. The game is free. You buy currency to spend within the game. If you don't want buggy new stuff, stop being thick and spending your currency on the newest stuff with the newest mechanics like the Glaive and Vaubon! Edited May 19, 2013 by VKhaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grulos Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) Holy cow, you guys forget that this is still a BETA, you all accepted the ToS, didn't you? They are trying things out and will fix broken things. Edited May 19, 2013 by Grulos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FedorHooch Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) People are spoiled by questionable marketing practices of big publishers, who release a slice of already polished, internally tested and finished product as a free "beta" to get attention of the playerbase. This game on the other hand is in honest beta testing, there are bugs, placeholders and some vital features are in the long and tedious process of being implemented. This is in no way a finished, polished, completed product. It is being actively developed right now, right this moment with our help as testers. You find something broken - you report it - devs fix it. You don't whine about something implemented two effing days ago being buggy. Edited May 19, 2013 by FedorHooch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheeseHasLeafs Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 If you find a bug, report it. It will be fixed. The Glaive's lag thing is fixed now. Vauban's bugs will be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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