Was Taking Out The Dark Sector A Good Idea, When The 2.0(3.0) Version Is No Where To Be Seen?

[-BG-Siran_Kari]

I guess DE was putting a hold on DS to try to ease us into PVP 2.0 before making the switch with DS.

I'm afraid for Dark Sector Conflicts.

[Avenwing]

Can't wait for 75% tax rate on every dark sector node but 1 again. Gonna be gr8.

[-BG-FishGuruStrikerSaint]

Can't wait for 75% tax rate on every dark sector node but 1 again. Gonna be gr8.

Hasty generalization my friend. Ignorant is bliss.

[FelisImpurrator]

But if this whole talk is about taxes and lets be frank it is evident that you're leaning towards the taxes being unfair well honestly In all respect don't do them, yes it is actually simple to not run the node. There are better ways to make credits, gather resoucres, and all of that. Credits just go do some capture keys in void with a credit booster bam easy credits. Looking for resoucres? i.e Orikin Cell? Do Draco or a mission on Ceres and just farm. Look you don't need to run dark sectors as a mean of gathering resources. I made and gathered a bunch of resoucres by doing what I described. Even before they took sectors off I did the same thing. See the taxes how I see them can be better okay fair enough, but it's not for us to gloat on how much credit we accumlated over time, it's for rail building, upkeeping the rail maintenance. Theres a bunch of factors that taxes have not only to piss off the next person. Look as much we can discuss about taxes lets try to keep on track with OP idea.

You didn't even read the part where I actually specifically said it wasn't that simple, was it?

 

If it's rotten, leave it to fester. Right, then. And players being shoved out of content doesn't matter, because there are alternatives... well, in that case, why don't we not fix all the bugged weapons and abilities, because everyone can just go use something else anyway? Like, say, Halikar's been bugged since release, DE should never bother fixing that because there's Glaive Prime and Kestrel and eventually Cerata.

 

Not how game balance works - clearly, considering we didn't make the call, DE did. And it's not for you to gloat? (Alraedy questionable in one case, but we all know what that is, so moving on.) Seems like the alliances used to manage their upkeep just fine charging a lot less, and they got to build more rails too. Oh, and if prices are driven so high barely anyone runs the nodes, where are you going to get all that upkeep money? From masochists?

 

It's all related to the OP too, because this is all part of why Dark Sectors got the hammer in the first place. If it hadn't been broken so horribly they wouldn't have had to try such a brute-force solution to begin with.

[--FS--Sofros]

They aren't now, because taxes are dead.

 

Previously? They were a crapshoot. Effectively, one could be locked out of running the node for the one thing dark sectors are used for, profit (and theoretically they are among the most profitable nodes, with their bonuses and enemy lineup) - purely as a function of taxes, decided by the whims of the alliance in charge that week.

They aren't... If taxes are higher than the bonus it's just a nerfed loot planet... So others planet are worther to drop... (and if you're talling me something like "yeah but you know they are infested, they attack in melee so they are easier to kill" just take a loki and all ennemies will be mélée ennemies just like infested...)

 

 

In theory, there would be a wide variety of controlling parties charging a variety of rates, and if one thought taxes were unfair for one node, another would always be an option. Others would be forced to lower their tributes to a level acceptable to players, with the net result being steady traffic to all such nodes; profit to the alliances, small but gradual, and profit to the Tenno running missions there. Ideal free market equilibrium.

 Do you know that while there is a conflict, anyone can just attack the node to pull up the lower taxe invader? And that EVEN if there is no battle pay?

The fact is that ppl do go in thoose conflict if they don't have anything back.. They just don't care if the taxes are too high and just go to another mission... 

 

 

In practice, only a handful of alliances - who charge more or less consistent rates across all of their nodes - held the entire system, dividing nodes into huge chunks of this tax rate or that - and nearly all of these alliances charged far, far higher than what is practical, rates that effectively minimized return on investment for running the node and therefore removed basically all incentive to do so. Thus no one would bother running those nodes, instead flocking to the scant handful of reasonable ones, and so I fail to see how anyone could conceivably have profited from raising the numbers to that extent.

So if nobody go and pay the taxe, the mission isn't worth taxing it? So why whould an Alliance loose money defending thoose rails if there is no profit?

In another way, If alliance have profit so players are paying the taxes, so they find a profit to it, isn't it? They aren't force to go in THAT mission, they choose to, and the taxes and everything else are clearly shown...

 

It's not as simple as "don't run the nodes", either. In that scenario it's an arbitrary content lock: "Don't like our taxes? Don't want to fight for half an hour to receive only 60% or 70% of your reward? Get out and go do one of those other nodes... which, ah, are all owned by the same alliance, or similar ones with the same or worse taxes. Or you can just not do Dark Sectors at all, and instead go to those regular nodes, most of which are only a better choice because we're sitting here making this one useless. Ah, and if you want to kick us out, we hope you have four billion credits, or the time to find thousands of soldiers willing to fight us for less, because we already have all of that."

 

So, we are putting hundreds of ppl thougethers, tayking time to defend a rail... They are wasting time staying here and refresshing the "defence" boutton... They are not doing something else..  And you don't want them to be rewarded for that? 

 

 

And again. I have been told about a time when >10%, >15%, was considered high. When you didn't have to have that four billion credits of battle pay, or a half dozen moon clans, just to challenge a rail and have a snowball's chance in Ember Prime's fancy animated helmet of winning - and to be able to hold it for more than the next week. When people could and did band together to kick out the worst clans and alliances in town. When there was actual fighting for these things, not a long string of smackdowns interspersed with a few outliers. So the rail holders got to rack up their tributes over time, but everyone still got to run the missions they wanted. Doesn't sound bad to me, so what happened? Or was that never really a thing?

You're repeating, already answerde earlier...

 

DE had to do something about all the griefing on these. All right, I'll give you that there was a large community built around these, and that, well, there was actual conflict as opposed to just rigging who got which node this week. But it got to a point where that couldn't exist without concurrently allowing mass abuse, and something had to give. If a new system comes up - a better one, a fairer one that allows for less trolling - and people still want to rebuild that community, bringing back the conflicts and all - more power to them, unless they're the trolls from last time, in which case screw those guys. But otherwise... critical mass was hit, or this had to be done well in advance of the starchart 3.0 rollout to be extra sure, or both.

So.. You wanna do a copetitive contenant fair? Oo

The competition si basicly 1 win others loose...

 

Can't wait for 75% tax rate on every dark sector node but 1 again. Gonna be gr8.

If you don't want thoose kind of taxes, why not come and put yours? 

 

And you still not answer the question of "What other contenant actually bind together thousans of players last 3 mounth? "

Have you already wake up at 1 AM to defend your rails for hours?

I dare you come here and say to all of my bored members who stop playing "this is better like that". We have fight for thoose rails, don't come and say "hey you are robbering us", we worked hard to keep them and I refuse you say such things if you don't know what a battle is...

 

Edited June 3, 2015 by Sofros

[(PSN)BornThisWay41]

I never played the dark sectors because I found them to be the boring and unfun part of the game. There is really no effect on me from taking them off but if they were to be brought back, I would much rather have it as PVE than PvP

Edited June 3, 2015 by (PS4)BornThisWay41

[FelisImpurrator]

They aren't... If taxes are higher than the bonus it's just a nerfed loot planet... So others planet are worther to drop... (and if you're talling me something like "yeah but you know they are infested, they attack in melee so they are easier to kill" just take a loki and all ennemies will be mélée ennemies just like infested...)

 

 Do you know that while there is a conflict, anyone can just attack the node to pull up the lower taxe invader? And that EVEN if there is no battle pay?

The fact is that ppl do go in thoose conflict if they don't have anything back.. They just don't care if the taxes are too high and just go to another mission...

 

So if nobody go and pay the taxe, the mission isn't worth taxing it? So why whould an Alliance loose money defending thoose rails if there is no profit?

In another way, If alliance have profit so players are paying the taxes, so they find a profit to it, isn't it? They aren't force to go in THAT mission, they choose to, and the taxes and everything else are clearly shown...

 

So, we are putting hundreds of ppl thougethers, tayking time to defend a rail... They are wasting time staying here and refresshing the "defence" boutton... They are not doing something else..  And you don't want them to be rewarded for that?

 

You're repeating, already answerde earlier...

 

So.. You wanna do a copetitive contenant fair? Oo

The competition si basicly 1 win others loose...

 

If you don't want thoose kind of taxes, why not come and put yours? 

 

And you still not answer the question of "What other contenant actually bind together thousans of players last 3 mounth? "

Have you already wake up at 1 AM to defend your rails for hours?

I dare you come here and say to all of my bored members who stop playing "this is better like that". We have fight for thoose rails, don't come and say "hey you are robbering us", we worked hard to keep them and I refuse you say such things if you don't know what a battle is...

I honestly can't understand this entire long rant you just posted. Not trying to sass this time, I legitimately cannot understand this post except for... the second paragraph?

 

Did you know that anyone can pretend to have lower taxes, then turn around and backstab all their supporters by cranking it up to whatever they want? Because that's what happened in most of these. Set it at 15% to get supporters, you win - surprise, it's now 45%! Thanks for helping, suckers!

 

If everyone had kept it nice and fair and reasonable this wouldn't even be happening. But this is why we can't have nice things.

Edited June 3, 2015 by FelisImpurrator

[Avenwing]

Hasty generalization my friend. Ignorant is bliss.

Hardly a hasty generalization. Shortly after DS conflicts were released the taxes skyrocketed to the point that it was far more profitable to do the regular missions than to try making money through DS missions. This trend has continued until the point where DE turned it all off and set all taxes to 0%. I'm currently trying to build everything I don't have right now while I can still actually farm DS missions because based on past behaviours I can expect them to become worthless for farming credits/materials again soon.

[-Kryptyk-]

They aren't... If taxes are higher than the bonus it's just a nerfed loot planet... So others planet are worther to drop... (and if you're talling me something like "yeah but you know they are infested, they attack in melee so they are easier to kill" just take a loki and all ennemies will be mélée ennemies just like infested...)

 

 

 Do you know that while there is a conflict, anyone can just attack the node to pull up the lower taxe invader? And that EVEN if there is no battle pay?

The fact is that ppl do go in thoose conflict if they don't have anything back.. They just don't care if the taxes are too high and just go to another mission... 

 

 

So if nobody go and pay the taxe, the mission isn't worth taxing it? So why whould an Alliance loose money defending thoose rails if there is no profit?

In another way, If alliance have profit so players are paying the taxes, so they find a profit to it, isn't it? They aren't force to go in THAT mission, they choose to, and the taxes and everything else are clearly shown...

 

 

So, we are putting hundreds of ppl thougethers, tayking time to defend a rail... They are wasting time staying here and refresshing the "defence" boutton... They are not doing something else..  And you don't want them to be rewarded for that? 

 

 

You're repeating, already answerde earlier...

 

So.. You wanna do a copetitive contenant fair? Oo

The competition si basicly 1 win others loose...

 

If you don't want thoose kind of taxes, why not come and put yours? 

You still not answer the question of "What other contenant actually bind together thousans of players last 3 mounth? "

I dare you come here and say to all of my bored members who stop playing "this is better like that".

When your logic is being dismantled by someone who cracked it wide open and counters every point successfully, take all that man's words and turn them against him because that totally works. I didn't even take time to read all that...

Felis actually knows what he's talking about and hasn't even run DS, which makes it that much more obvious that those controlling them and taking part in them appear fraudulent and exploiting the system. And just like anyone doing something wrong and needs to cover their tracks, they make a big post about it to push their propaganda on people and tell them that "hey guys, even though we're being unfair, we're still OK and here's the fifty reasons why. Also, here's all the subtle hints at why you should join us, because we're totally not fraudulent." Right...

Honestly, I'm tired of all the exploitation. Yes, I did my part, but I'm tired of it. I'm tired of the debates, the mass control, the utilizing payout lures, the node tradeoffs, etc. Either dark sectors need to be brought to an end (and yes the only reward to those in control being that they actually kept those nodes for a while), or something does need to happen that promotes an air of fairness *not just to thuse controlling the star chart*, but everyone else. Every post I've seen saying that DS needs to come back online or that DS is a fair system has been from someone who is currently part of the mass alliance that controls them. Sorry, but your opinion is less valid than those who are looking at the DS wondering how they can be a part of it. That's just how it is.

There is no community among the few people who own the mass allianc. They didn't create a community, but rather made a coalition of men and women who think they are fighting a fair fight under a big friendship. Trust me, I know it sounds extreme as any proper exposure does, but the truth is, there is only a large group of people who have been gathered for one purpose: to take over the game. I've seen it over and over.... and over.... and it can be denied as much as anyone might want to deny it, but the history speaks for itself for these people. Good job at brainwashing people, by the way. The players are nice and care about the game? Oh I'm sure there are a few mixed in with the thousands of people you have, sure. But if they knew the thoughts of those operating behind the scenes, those who created that tapestry of war and elitism? Would they stay? I think not, because as fair as the cause is made out to be, the reality is is that it is simply exploitation of a system for power masked in arguments for fairness.

Go ahead and tell your members everything. About the history going all the way back to 2006 and how you all repeated this process over and over, eating clans and alliances for your own glory all the while while being chased by a group of people who wanted to stop you. You know exactly what I'm talking about, those who have been around that long. It ends in warframe. for good.

You lose people because your goals are shallow. The lure of power and the illusion of control is something people buy into but lose interest when things become stale because it isn't something worthy of their time. After all, it's a game, is it not? And the people who do have time to try and keep the fire going are thrown into a competitive copy cat clan run by the same people. Gotta separate the good from the bad. Can't have them coexist, right? That isn't a community, by the way. That's prejudiced tyranny. Things will fall flat because the only greater goal you have is more power. Take more control. Be popular with the devs (Congrats on the community spotline by the way CdG, way back when. Guess you need your name in lights right from the beginning so you could jump start this curb stomp. Well played)

My point is, after the long rant, and this is the last time I'll speak on the subject here since sleep is necessary at some point, this is a constant pattern that needs to stop, especially in the modern gaming community. DE put the armistice up to destroy what they could of that greater alliance (do I dare speak the name of them?). That is literally why it is still going. Yeah, they could have kept DS up until they move everything over to conclave, but they didn't because the current system needed to stop being exploited. Simple as that.

Good night fellas. Happy debating.

[-BG-Siran_Kari]

I honestly can't understand this entire long rant you just posted. Not trying to sass this time, I legitimately cannot understand this post except for... the second paragraph?

Did you know that anyone can pretend to have lower taxes, then turn around and backstab all their supporters by cranking it up to whatever they want? Because that's what happened in most of these. Set it at 15% to get supporters, you win - surprise, it's now 45%! Thanks for helping, suckers!

If everyone had kept it nice and fair and reasonable this wouldn't even be happening. But this is why we can't have nice things.

Translation;

"If you are the new player you say you are, sit down and listen who you are talking to; MANY of us have spent our time defending a rail when we clearly would want to be doing something else. But we hold onto it because what is the reason for pooling the resources toile a rail if not to profit from it?

And on that note, we have to pay all of our members for defending the rail. There are a lot of people involved in defending a rail and ALL of them have to get paid. We have been up at all hours of the day fighting tooth and nail to hold what we have because EVERYONE ELSE is against us.

This is not the easy "exploit" you make it out to be. "

[FelisImpurrator]

Translation;

"If you are the new player you say you are, sit down and listen who you are talking to; MANY of us have spent our time defending a rail when we clearly would want to be doing something else. But we hold onto it because what is the reason for pooling the resources toile a rail if not to profit from it?

And on that note, we have to pay all of our members for defending the rail. There are a lot of people involved in defending a rail and ALL of them have to get paid. We have been up at all hours of the day fighting tooth and nail to hold what we have because EVERYONE ELSE is against us.

This is not the easy "exploit" you make it out to be. "

Oh, well, that's helpful. And in response, well...

 

Do you even need to take, say, 30-40% of all the resource drops on a rail just to maintain it, or build a new one, or whatever else? Because apparently people make do with 20%. People made do with 10%, they made do with 15%.

 

And you have to pay everyone. Sure. If, let's say, even 75% of the players who might have run the node and gotten you tribute refuse to run it because the taxes are too high, and all you have are your own Alliance members plus a handful of masochists who don't care, how much pay do you really make? How much profit is that? Nearly everyone would run it at 5% or 10% or 15%. A lot of people run it at 20%. Then the traffic spikes downward. How much volume do you lose from pumping the numbers?

 

More importantly - everyone is against you, or the next alliance, or the next alliance, because of these numbers. Of course they'd be pissed off and possibly even support the other side just to spite whoever's in charge, unless they're being offered a million credits straight up. The ones who play nice get rekt the least and get the most consistent throughput. So really, who wins there?

[-BG-Siran_Kari]

When your logic is being dismantled by someone who cracked it wide open and counters every point successfully, take all that man's words and turn them against him because that totally works. I didn't even take time to read all that...

Felis actually knows what he's talking about and hasn't even run DS, which makes it that much more obvious that those controlling them and taking part in them appear fraudulent and exploiting the system. And just like anyone doing something wrong and needs to cover their tracks, they make a big post about it to push their propaganda on people and tell them that "hey guys, even though we're being unfair, we're still OK and here's the fifty reasons why. Also, here's all the subtle hints at why you should join us, because we're totally not fraudulent." Right...

Honestly, I'm tired of all the exploitation. Yes, I did my part, but I'm tired of it. I'm tired of the debates, the mass control, the utilizing payout lures, the node tradeoffs, etc. Either dark sectors need to be brought to an end (and yes the only reward to those in control being that they actually kept those nodes for a while), or something does need to happen that promotes an air of fairness *not just to thuse controlling the star chart*, but everyone else. Every post I've seen saying that DS needs to come back online or that DS is a fair system has been from someone who is currently part of the mass alliance that controls them. Sorry, but your opinion is less valid than those who are looking at the DS wondering how they can be a part of it. That's just how it is.

There is no community among the few people who own the mass allianc. They didn't create a community, but rather made a coalition of men and women who think they are fighting a fair fight under a big friendship. Trust me, I know it sounds extreme as any proper exposure does, but the truth is, there is only a large group of people who have been gathered for one purpose: to take over the game. I've seen it over and over.... and over.... and it can be denied as much as anyone might want to deny it, but the history speaks for itself for these people. Good job at brainwashing people, by the way. The players are nice and care about the game? Oh I'm sure there are a few mixed in with the thousands of people you have, sure. But if they knew the thoughts of those operating behind the scenes, those who created that tapestry of war and elitism? Would they stay? I think not, because as fair as the cause is made out to be, the reality is is that it is simply exploitation of a system for power masked in arguments for fairness.

Go ahead and tell your members everything. About the history going all the way back to 2006 and how you all repeated this process over and over, eating clans and alliances for your own glory all the while while being chased by a group of people who wanted to stop you. You know exactly what I'm talking about, those who have been around that long. It ends in warframe. for good.

You lose people because your goals are shallow. The lure of power and the illusion of control is something people buy into but lose interest when things become stale because it isn't something worthy of their time. After all, it's a game, is it not? And the people who do have time to try and keep the fire going are thrown into a competitive copy cat clan run by the same people. Gotta separate the good from the bad. Can't have them coexist, right? That isn't a community, by the way. That's prejudiced tyranny. Things will fall flat because the only greater goal you have is more power. Take more control. Be popular with the devs (Congrats on the community spotline by the way CdG, way back when. Guess you need your name in lights right from the beginning so you could jump start this curb stomp. Well played)

My point is, after the long rant, and this is the last time I'll speak on the subject here since sleep is necessary at some point, this is a constant pattern that needs to stop, especially in the modern gaming community. DE put the armistice up to destroy what they could of that greater alliance (do I dare speak the name of them?). That is literally why it is still going. Yeah, they could have kept DS up until they move everything over to conclave, but they didn't because the current system needed to stop being exploited. Simple as that.

Good night fellas. Happy debating.

Does anyone know what/ who he is talking about? I'm somewhat confused. Either it's a crazy story or some loopy conspiracy lol.

However, PriZms, you seem to have a sadly skewed view of the gaming *ahem* community. Not everyone is as sadistic, greedy, and power hungry as you make them out to be. I can say I've met a lot of honest and good people in these 'evil power-hungry alliances'.

Idk I guess there really isn't a point to debating anymore. No one agrees with what the other side says. Whenever the debate springs up, fingers get pointed up fifty different Tenno's noses and we really don't get any further then from where we began.

So to answer the question, it was not a good idea to halt Dark Sector. Adios.

[Ashnal]

Really now. If the best argument all of you can throw together is some chopped-up bits of idealized capitalism - I suppose there really is nothing to worry about, and the popcorn will just keep flowing until this thread dies or is locked.

 

Even the Wikipedia article on free market economy points out the huge, gaping holes. Was this really a scenario of perfect competition? Low barriers to entry, no economic privilege, no monopolies, no artificial scarcities? None of those issues whatsoever?

 

I love it when people try to justify an imperfect capitalist economy... using principles that only apply to perfect hypothetical scenarios, then accuse others of being idealistic.

I'm not painting a fictitious picture with ideals, I'm saying that the Dark Sector system had a lot in common with a tiny capitalist economy. I never said that such a system was perfect, just that it WAS working as intended, to counter the sarcasm that that post was replying to.

 

I was pointing out that there are ways to deal with the situations that were mentioned as flaws, but since it's a player driven system, they required player action. Since this is a PvE game, most players can;t be arsed to care enough to take action. It was mostly a player motivation problem not necessarily a design problem, though some would say that the motivation is part of the design.

[-BG-FishGuruStrikerSaint]

When your logic is being dismantled by someone who cracked it wide open and counters every point successfully, take all that man's words and turn them against him because that totally works. I didn't even take time to read all that...

Felis actually knows what he's talking about and hasn't even run DS, which makes it that much more obvious that those controlling them and taking part in them appear fraudulent and exploiting the system. And just like anyone doing something wrong and needs to cover their tracks, they make a big post about it to push their propaganda on people and tell them that "hey guys, even though we're being unfair, we're still OK and here's the fifty reasons why. Also, here's all the subtle hints at why you should join us, because we're totally not fraudulent." Right...

Honestly, I'm tired of all the exploitation. Yes, I did my part, but I'm tired of it. I'm tired of the debates, the mass control, the utilizing payout lures, the node tradeoffs, etc. Either dark sectors need to be brought to an end (and yes the only reward to those in control being that they actually kept those nodes for a while), or something does need to happen that promotes an air of fairness *not just to thuse controlling the star chart*, but everyone else. Every post I've seen saying that DS needs to come back online or that DS is a fair system has been from someone who is currently part of the mass alliance that controls them. Sorry, but your opinion is less valid than those who are looking at the DS wondering how they can be a part of it. That's just how it is.

There is no community among the few people who own the mass allianc. They didn't create a community, but rather made a coalition of men and women who think they are fighting a fair fight under a big friendship. Trust me, I know it sounds extreme as any proper exposure does, but the truth is, there is only a large group of people who have been gathered for one purpose: to take over the game. I've seen it over and over.... and over.... and it can be denied as much as anyone might want to deny it, but the history speaks for itself for these people. Good job at brainwashing people, by the way. The players are nice and care about the game? Oh I'm sure there are a few mixed in with the thousands of people you have, sure. But if they knew the thoughts of those operating behind the scenes, those who created that tapestry of war and elitism? Would they stay? I think not, because as fair as the cause is made out to be, the reality is is that it is simply exploitation of a system for power masked in arguments for fairness.

Go ahead and tell your members everything. About the history going all the way back to 2006 and how you all repeated this process over and over, eating clans and alliances for your own glory all the while while being chased by a group of people who wanted to stop you. You know exactly what I'm talking about, those who have been around that long. It ends in warframe. for good.

You lose people because your goals are shallow. The lure of power and the illusion of control is something people buy into but lose interest when things become stale because it isn't something worthy of their time. After all, it's a game, is it not? And the people who do have time to try and keep the fire going are thrown into a competitive copy cat clan run by the same people. Gotta separate the good from the bad. Can't have them coexist, right? That isn't a community, by the way. That's prejudiced tyranny. Things will fall flat because the only greater goal you have is more power. Take more control. Be popular with the devs (Congrats on the community spotline by the way CdG, way back when. Guess you need your name in lights right from the beginning so you could jump start this curb stomp. Well played)

My point is, after the long rant, and this is the last time I'll speak on the subject here since sleep is necessary at some point, this is a constant pattern that needs to stop, especially in the modern gaming community. DE put the armistice up to destroy what they could of that greater alliance (do I dare speak the name of them?). That is literally why it is still going. Yeah, they could have kept DS up until they move everything over to conclave, but they didn't because the current system needed to stop being exploited. Simple as that.

Good night fellas. Happy debating.

Besides the countless bashing and name calling I would say out of everything I read on this post was completely and utterly baffling and nonetheless incorrect in many respects I understand that due to problems with you and your superiors with another alliance you state some wrong information here cause face it we all get heated especially after saying "classified" like come on. But in regards to some of your statements, if you really think that holding the sectors has a major impact on the overall game then you are out of your mind. Again many if you state that this is a PvE game with some minor PvP mode i.e. Dark Sector or Conclave. But you're saying that we demand control of the entire game which is not true for the fact that we only have part of a tiny bit of the portion of the game. We have no control of DE or the PvE section of the game neither Conclave. What you see as an "exposure" is only based upon information you and your clan or whoever your superiors are made. Okay you stated that I'm biased so doesnt that mean you are too? Again it is all perspective. at the end of the day it's a game.

[FelisImpurrator]

Does anyone know what/ who he is talking about? I'm somewhat confused. Either it's a crazy story or some loopy conspiracy lol.

However, PriZms, you seem to have a sadly skewed view of the gaming *ahem* community. Not everyone is as sadistic, greedy, and power hungry as you make them out to be. I can say I've met a lot of honest and good people in these 'evil power-hungry alliances'.

Idk I guess there really isn't a point to debating anymore. No one agrees with what the other side says. Whenever the debate springs up, fingers get pointed up fifty different Tenno's noses and we really don't get any further then from where we began.

So to answer the question, it was not a good idea to halt Dark Sector. Adios.

I am trying to gather information through the condescension and "stfu noob, respect mah authoritah" I get from some people in thread. I have said I'm willing to listen to people who actually explain their points instead of implying I know nothing and should drink the kool-aid or get out.

 

(Also, some minor side notes prompted by Prizms' long post: I have run dark sector conflict battles, yes... and I am neither a he nor a she, but again, that is very minor.)

 

The masochist slur was well hidden +1 from me.

Oh, hold up now - what are you talking about? In what language is masochist a slur? Because I've certainly never heard of it. You'd think I called someone the n-word.

 

And no, I wasn't even talking about you or anyone in particular, just that I figured 90% of the people who would run a 99% credit tax node or something would either be doing it because they derived some kind of twisted amusement from the painful hilarity of seeing 200 credits off a run, or because they just didn't care about the loot at all. It was also only partly serious, because hell - I think I might have said 'screw it' at least once and just done an expensive rail anyway for the XP.

 

But if you're going to straight up ignore the rest of it just for that, well, I'm not going to stop you, just... maybe you should fix that double post first, bit of a bug there.

 

I'm not painting a fictitious picture with ideals, I'm saying that the Dark Sector system had a lot in common with a tiny capitalist economy. I never said that such a system was perfect, just that it WAS working as intended, to counter the sarcasm that that post was replying to.

 

I was pointing out that there are ways to deal with the situations that were mentioned as flaws, but since it's a player driven system, they required player action. Since this is a PvE game, most players can;t be arsed to care enough to take action. It was mostly a player motivation problem not necessarily a design problem, though some would say that the motivation is part of the design.

If the output is broken, and consistently so over a significant period of time, how by any reasonable standard is that intended? Obviously DE didn't think it was working as intended because they straight up hammered it to death, didn't they?

 

If the design can't create an environment of self-regulation, then it fails as a free market on the most basic level.

Edited June 3, 2015 by FelisImpurrator

[Ashnal]

If the output is broken, and consistently so over a significant period of time, how by any reasonable standard is that intended? Obviously DE didn't think it was working as intended because they straight up hammered it to death, didn't they?

 

If the design can't create an environment of self-regulation, then it fails as a free market on the most basic level.

Was it actually broken though? Despite all the taxes, all of those credits came back out of the system via battle pay. Many players did not like it, but many players did. In my opinion, that is what created the conflict. Those that liked a small constant payout with low taxes, vs those who loved large paydays every once in a while with high taxes.

 

Not all nodes were high taxes. Not all nodes were low taxes. Seems like it had a fine result to me.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Ashnal

[-BG-FishGuruStrikerSaint]

Wait hold on free market what? Are we talking about trade chat here or Dark Sectors? Cause clearly I never knew that the Dark Sector was a free market. And surely by self regulation you mean the ability to sustain a system without the help of an external source?

[FelisImpurrator]

Was it actually broken though? Despite all the taxes, all of those credits came back out of the system via battle pay. Many players did not like it, but many players did. In my opinion, that is what created the conflict. Those that liked a small constant payout with low taxes, vs those who loved large paydays every once in a while.

 

Not all nodes were high taxes. Not all nodes were low taxes. Seems like it had a fine result to me.

All of them?

 

Weird. I ran into so very many conflicts where the high-tax alliances waved huge battle pay in everyone's faces... only to whip it away at the last second. Whereas the most consistently low-tax alliances were the sources of my biggest payouts. Only payouts, really, because they were the only ones who actually coughed up at the end. EDIT: To make that a bit clearer - these alliances managed to pump out 250k payouts for the duration of an entire conflict and had the smallest public tolls in the solar system.

 

(And then there were some who offered 5 credits to support their gross overtaxation. Seems like it had a fine result to me too, I guess.)

 

Wait hold on free market what? Are we talking about trade chat here or Dark Sectors? Cause clearly I never knew that the Dark Sector was a free market. And surely by self regulation you mean the ability to sustain a system without the help of an external source?

Ashnal described it that way first. I was giving my criticism based on that statement.

 

And by self-regulation, I mean the ability to cut the BS without the intervention of the Hammer from Above.

Edited June 3, 2015 by FelisImpurrator

[The-Lioness]

Ok, finished reading the thread, lots of text and lots of good points have been made.

 On the one side we have the majority (and yes even offline or having left out of mind numbing boredom, they still count as the majority) of players who has played this game since it first launched or soon after that, they are all tired of doing the exact same missions on the exact same nodes, against the exact same npc's equipped with an AI that I could outsmart and destroy even if I was unarmed and naked, for no reason what so ever because after 1-2-3 years, they have everything farmed crafted maxed and forma'd, there's nothing left after that since Warframe still lacks a legitimate story, and even then we all (who have been here long enough) are aware it will take no time at all to burn through a story when you already have EVERYTHING. That's where the pvp Rail Wars of dark sector comes into play, it dynamic and shifting, will this guy who just had his whole clan kicked outa a rail head first, train harder, upgrade, and come back with a better stronger team and a smarter more cunning plan? who knows because he's not a BOT! That's excitement, that's worth getting up at 1am just take guard a rail, because it's FUN, and yes there's even incentive to win, to hold the rail, to capture a "planet" and have your flag be the only one on it, that adds rewards for those who want more outa pvp than a few giggles and a long list of opposing players who hate you.

 

Now on the other side we have a minority of players who either where to weak, to poor, or to uncoordinated both as a clan and an alliance to earn a rail, so they now demand it simply be given to them because the systems not "fair" to the weaker player, who didn't earn anything, who didn't bother to study his/her opponent or just flat out failed no matter what they tried, that's what happens when you go up against a living breathing person, they adapt, they learn, and unlike you, they constantly press them selves higher and higher up the tiers to become better and smarter in how they defend they're rail.

 

Now there's me and my side, when I first started playing Warframe, my overall impression of it was, nice for a F2P game, certainly not as expensive as I thought it would be (yay) but overall it lacked both story and an incentive to "get it all" and max out everything, at all. once you unlocked every node on every planet, there really is no more to do, by the time I did that I had everything I wanted, then I met my current clan, fun guys who started before anything else by training myself and all the others who joined after, how to play better and smarter and then gave us a reason for it - the dark sectors - and the pride of owning a piece of it, and they took time out of their day and whatever they where doing just to help the rest of us, and it paid off, we are now one of only two clans (not alliances) who own a rail and have successfully defended it for months, and still own it btw, this gave our clan a REASON TO PLAY this game after getting to the "endgame" and our clan grew bigger and more packed with fun players who loved the thrill of DARK SECTOR pvp, we had over seventy people...now I'm lucky to see five online at the same time, and conclave pvp? it's a joke after the rail wars.

[DietEbolaCola]

Good luck going up against level 30 specters with current Conclave loadout limitations.

 

Even the level 10 starter ones may be too much.

Edited June 3, 2015 by DietEbolaCola

[-BG-FishGuruStrikerSaint]

All of them?

Weird. I ran into so very many conflicts where the high-tax alliances waved huge battle pay in everyone's faces... only to whip it away at the last second. Whereas the most consistently low-tax alliances were the sources of my biggest payouts. Only payouts, really, because they were the only ones who actually coughed up at the end.

(And then there were some who offered 5 credits to support their gross overtaxation. Seems like it had a fine result to me too, I guess.)

Ashnal described it that way first. I was giving my criticism based on that statement.

And by self-regulation, I mean the ability to cut the BS without the intervention of the Hammer from Above.

Well based on your previous statements I do want to point out that no one here is trying to exert their authority on you cause clearly at this current time there is none. Even before there was no authority bestowed upon the alliance nor have I seen them exert it in a way to belittle others. Listen people have their own views on the alliances most of which is as far as I can tell negative based on taxation. But I'm hearing that the alliances are power hungry and demand the almighty DE gods to keep this "power". By gods glory what power do we have? Credits? Yay we can finally finish all the clan tech and buy them decorations. Resources? Well we can't "regulate" something that is infinite. PvP ties to PvE at the end and the talk of power hungry and elitism is false. Not saying that you Felis is the one talking about it but in general.

[Avenwing]

So, here's the truth of things in tl:dr format.

 

One giant alliance (unofficially), they would "attack" each other whenever their rails lost their little protection (don't remember the duration since I gave up trying to actually participate) and then they would not even actually fight for control. All this was done so that everyone could keep their specific rails, every once in a while they would slip up and another alliance was able to deploy a rail and usually won because of all the pissed off people.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Avenwing

[-BG-FishGuruStrikerSaint]

So, here's the truth of things in tl:dr format.

One giant alliance (unofficially), they would "attack" each other whenever their rails lost their little weeklong protection and then they would not even actually fight for control. All this was done so that everyone could keep their specific rails, every once in a while they would slip up and another alliance was able to deploy a rail and usually won because of all the pissed off people.

Well yeah they usually won and so why couldn't they hold the Sector down and defend it? Sure many would argue that the bigger alliance has credits, but hell if the player base wanted an alliance with quote on quote "taxation free" then surely holding onto it shouldn't be hard right? Why not do what the alliance did and deploy another rail so they can't take it?

[FelisImpurrator]

Now on the other side we have a minority of players who either where to weak, to poor, or to uncoordinated both as a clan and an alliance to earn a rail, so they now demand it simply be given to them because the systems not "fair" to the weaker player, who didn't earn anything, who didn't bother to study his/her opponent or just flat out failed no matter what they tried, that's what happens when you go up against a living breathing person, they adapt, they learn, and unlike you, they constantly press them selves higher and higher up the tiers to become better and smarter in how they defend they're rail.

Nope. Try "some of us players on the ground aren't interested in suffering for the whims of a few, and don't care about owning a rail or going toe-to-toe with an alliance either". Can't just generalize people as "Oh, you don't want it? Must have been too weak to get your own slice of the pie."

 

I'll say it again. If it had all stayed nice and fair, no one would be mad, and even those of us who don't play the rail game would have had fun from time to time rolling out for battlepay or just to support some cool people we'd heard of in between hitting up a nice farm spot every so often.

 

But no. All the trolling had to show up and ruin things for everyone. If it had been that kind of good time for everyone and stayed that way, I'd be up here complaining about the death of the dark sectors just as much as the rest of you. Nope; of course people had to screw that up. Had to reach too far and squeeze too hard, and the only people having any sort of fun with the system were usually the ones actually playing the rail metagame.

 

Yeah, you know, just so it's clear, there are players outside of the rail-holders and their rivals. Just saying - we do kind of exist too.

 

That said? Just to make this entirely clear?

 

If - and only if - the system can be revived without the shady crap that caused it to be killed off in the first place, well, best of luck toward reviving your clan, and to anyone else who wants to take a crack at this. Not hating the whole idea; just cut out the cancer, that's all it needs.

Edited June 3, 2015 by FelisImpurrator

[-BG-Siran_Kari]

Ok, finished reading the thread, lots of text and lots of good points have been made.

On the one side we have the majority (and yes even offline or having left out of mind numbing boredom, they still count as the majority) of players who has played this game since it first launched or soon after that, they are all tired of doing the exact same missions on the exact same nodes, against the exact same npc's equipped with an AI that I could outsmart and destroy even if I was unarmed and naked, for no reason what so ever because after 1-2-3 years, they have everything farmed crafted maxed and forma'd, there's nothing left after that since Warframe still lacks a legitimate story, and even then we all (who have been here long enough) are aware it will take no time at all to burn through a story when you already have EVERYTHING. That's where the pvp Rail Wars of dark sector comes into play, it dynamic and shifting, will this guy who just had his whole clan kicked outa a rail head first, train harder, upgrade, and come back with a better stronger team and a smarter more cunning plan? who knows because he's not a BOT! That's excitement, that's worth getting up at 1am just take guard a rail, because it's FUN, and yes there's even incentive to win, to hold the rail, to capture a "planet" and have your flag be the only one on it, that adds rewards for those who want more outa pvp than a few giggles and a long list of opposing players who hate you.

Now on the other side we have a minority of players who either where to weak, to poor, or to uncoordinated both as a clan and an alliance to earn a rail, so they now demand it simply be given to them because the systems not "fair" to the weaker player, who didn't earn anything, who didn't bother to study his/her opponent or just flat out failed no matter what they tried, that's what happens when you go up against a living breathing person, they adapt, they learn, and unlike you, they constantly press them selves higher and higher up the tiers to become better and smarter in how they defend they're rail.

Now there's me and my side, when I first started playing Warframe, my overall impression of it was, nice for a F2P game, certainly not as expensive as I thought it would be (yay) but overall it lacked both story and an incentive to "get it all" and max out everything, at all. once you unlocked every node on every planet, there really is no more to do, by the time I did that I had everything I wanted, then I met my current clan, fun guys who started before anything else by training myself and all the others who joined after, how to play better and smarter and then gave us a reason for it - the dark sectors - and the pride of owning a piece of it, and they took time out of their day and whatever they where doing just to help the rest of us, and it paid off, we are now one of only two clans (not alliances) who own a rail and have successfully defended it for months, and still own it btw, this gave our clan a REASON TO PLAY this game after getting to the "endgame" and our clan grew bigger and more packed with fun players who loved the thrill of DARK SECTOR pvp, we had over seventy people...now I'm lucky to see five online at the same time, and conclave pvp? it's a joke after the rail wars.

*Deep bow* I like you. Thank you. I hope that DS comes back in a good way so that your clan revives.