Dash Attack Movement "abuse"

[PapaKicks]

*Equip [Flame retardant Suit]*

You removed wave dashing, so please remove the new one, it is even more 'immersion breaking'. And your reasoning should be the same for this one.

I can't find a good youtube video of it being abused, but I found this 'how-to-guide':

 

-Knife Skating- (Tested with Dark Dagger) What You Need: Dark Dagger, Ceramic Dagger, or Heat Dagger equipped in your Melee weapon slot. How To Execute: Press and hold Sprint, press crouch to slide, immediately press melee attack to dash and release sprint. Rinse and repeat. This is the single fastest method of travel in Warframe that does not require the use of energy (I.E. Warframe abilities). Every melee weapon has a charge attack that can be performed by pressing the melee key while sliding. From the weapons I have tested (Scindo, Skana, Cronus, Dark Dagger, Heat Sword) it appears that every weapon covers the same distance. The ‘heavier’ the weapon, the slower your charge speed is and the slower your recovery time on the charge. The problem with this: Daggers are not exactly the best weapon when it comes to combat. The charge is also in a straight line, so it can be somewhat hard to control around corners.

 

(I could not find another thread for this, if there is one I will delete this one)

--- REPLIES ---
- Wouldn't you rather see movement speed as a whole addressed than exploit some unintended function? I personally love movement speed, it's why my favorite frame is Ash (Loki was too squishy for my tastes). So I'd much rather see a movement speed mod (non-sprinting) added to the mix than keep this around so that slow frames can keep up.

- The only way it affects me is it looks really, really cheesy when spammed. This reasoning is the exact same reason wave dashing was removed, so if I were you I'd expect the same for this.

- I'm not concerned with people using it for combat, only movement. The ones who spam it.

- I was looking for a video of someone abusing it for movement. The one I found was not a good example but I didn't know the term to search for it so it was the only one I found. I will try to find a better one. 

Edited May 21, 2013 by Akivoodoo

[Namacyst]

+1

[MetalGerbil]

i still dont see how that is suppose to be fun. or interesting. or anything besides annoying -_-

one way or another it will probably be a pain to fix. its suppose to do that as part of the attack. but your not suppose to spam it either. a cooldown would be annoying and im not sure what else they could do.

wish people would just care about the gameplay itself for once. just this once.

[DarthRevan84]

+1

[Reaver_X]

honestly i don't see what the big deal is, Excalibur is a frame with high mobility, the fact that they gave him a move like super jump proves this. And so i dont see how using slash dash to move ahead or cross gaps is a problem. Also u can't nerf the slash dash mobility without terribly hurting the effectiveness of the frame.

[Deost]

-1

 

1. It only works with dual weapons. It's called "dagger skating" and imo, it's about the only saving grace for the slow frames.

2. How does it effect you in the game if your a casual soloer?

3. It's a great technique to use to bridge gaps between mobs and either get into cover and shoot or take em out with melee charge attacks. At higher levels it doesn't actual do any damage to mobs. He's fighting level fours there so yeah, it'd one shot them. Anything else past level 20ish or so and they'd just look at you funny.

4. It takes some skill to pull off and once you get it into muscle memory you can actually skate sideways, or horizontal and get into range.

 

So yeah. Please, lets gut the game's fun things summore. /sarcasm

[dragonboss]

The only way to remove this, is to make the actual dash/roll/evade an siderolls and backflips useful. As it is now, rolling is slower than sprinting.

An easy way to prevent abuse of this move, not that I see it as that harmful, is to make it charge on the 3rd attack.

[vieuxchat]

I don't find that you get so much speed as with the old slash-dash abuse where you could get nearly volt speed.

And a bit more speed doesn't hurt in a slash and dash game. It helps keep som epacing to the game (and helps a lot the slow warframes like rhino)

[doommoose22]

skill based way to keep slower frames in the fight so -1 from me

[Mysteryman2000]

Why are you complaining about something someone is doing in a pve game?  I can see if it was personally effecting you, but it is not killing any enemies with extreme prejudice, it isn't harming you, and it doesn't seem to actually hurt anything.  Besides you are a ninja,  It isn't like he is spamming it, you can maneuver around and hurt things to get a better angle to make a kill.

[Mercathin]

It seems like an unintentional ability that nullifies an aspect of the game when employed. I have beaten volts using speed as a Saryn while employing this.

 

However, if this is turned into a version of Tribes skiing or bunny hopping, I will still be employing it myself. I personally will leave it to the developers to decide its fate.

 

 

Why are you complaining about something someone is doing in a pve game?  I can see if it was personally effecting you, but it is not killing any enemies with extreme prejudice, it isn't harming you, and it doesn't seem to actually hurt anything.  Besides you are a ninja,  It isn't like he is spamming it, you can maneuver around and hurt things to get a better angle to make a kill.

 

Sociology I am pretty sure disagrees with this premise, the particular of social conformity really touch on this subject. One does not need to be in direct conflict with someone to be influenced by them.

 

I would argue some of my greatest, and worst, interactions with people were cooperative in nature.

[fauxhb]

how i read op is: you took away my wave dashing, now take away their movement!

hm. except, this one drains stamina. you have to use some specific weapons (like dual zoren, for example. yeah, they look cool and charge fast, but on higher lvl missions they start to lose their edge. redeeming quality - tactical positioning).

oh, yeah, you can skip some pointless "click elevator, go to top floor, run to a symmetrical elevator, click, go to botom floor."

 

speed boost? so what, you can't extract without half of your team, but it can benefit solo player. i do alerts solo, so yeah, i'm biased.

i dunno what's your problem though. "just because" is not an argument.

 

if it were for players like you, this game would be a slow, grey grind. grr.

[pixelsafoison]

See? this is why we should have kept the god damn downvote button instead of making these forums FaceFrame

[crow-k]

i have spent a lot of time hating this. But with incomming of this last patch and the next, if it isn't fixed I am just going to start doing it. As long as the people I play with aren't using it to skip the fighting that is immenint I see no mroe problems with it. I only care if it is used to skip fighting, and that hasn't been the case with most of the people I have encountered. Not to mention skipping fighting can be done w/o knife skating. So, yea.

[imperialmlg]

It's not acceptable you get a huge mobility boost just from a certain set of weapons and not from others. Arguing this should be left as is to make slow warframes better is just asking for a terrible bandaid fix. It ends up taking away melee choices from the slower frames too, what if i want to play a slow frame and use a heavy weapon? I'll catch flak for not using a dual weapon and abusing it's dash to keep up with the rest of the group. Problems should be fixed at their core and not just their symptoms. A skill based movement mechanic sounds pretty sweet actually, but make it baseline for all frames independent of loadouts per say.

[Kiry]

+1

Been abusing  this way quite long for now, its faster then Loki with sprint mod.

 

Its works with any weapon exept for Heavy,all you need is to put Max Fury mod on weapon.

 

Some people doing ground slash,some doing double ground slash spam, but most fast impulse are achieved by single air slash dash.

 

Fixing this will be easy - just make slash dash movement impossible without certain stamina amount, as right now - you can spam it even if you got minimal amount.

[PapaKicks]

I edited my original post to include my replies.

[PlebbyMilliner]

+1

Been abusing  this way quite long for now, its faster then Loki with sprint mod.

 

Its works with any weapon exept for Heavy,all you need is to put Max Fury mod on weapon.

 

Some people doing ground slash,some doing double ground slash spam, but most fast impulse are achieved by single air slash dash.

 

Fixing this will be easy - just make slash dash movement impossible without certain stamina amount, as right now - you can spam it even if you got minimal amount.

 

This is the right answer. The main problem is that the Sprint uses stamina, but anything after that does not. So realistically, only when you hold down "sprint" does stamina drain.

 

Personally, I like the speed boost in combat since you can actually catch up to faster enemies and take them down in a slow frame.

[GoneM4d]

Why would you remove the dash? It good because it lets you to catch up to your teammates  it allows you to jump over lard distances of mobs/terrains on defense in order to reach your goal. It helps jump over a few games faster and without loosing speed. Everyone can do it therefore its not an abuse. It does not have any affect on your game play whats so ever except ''oh look how fast that guy is going''. I use it on regular bases to catch up when I have fallen behind, jump over mobs on defense to revive teammates, and its fast way to cover rooms that have no enemies within them. Additionally this game supposed to be fast paced. This is not a cover shooter.

[Theodorion]

I don't see any reason to remove this.

 

Why shouldn't some maneuvers, that you can train, make you faster? Cause it doens't look good? That's not a good reason in my opinion.

Maybe that's because I played some older games, that had maneuvers, that made you 3 to 5 times faster, but weren't implimented on purpose. In these games abusing the (buggy) movement combos were just part of the skill.

 

So I would prever to keep skill based movement speed in the game, especially if combat is affected by a fixing the movement.

[Ryjeon]

It works with any fairly quick weapon, even an unmodded Skana, or an Amphis with high Fury.

[Beelzebubbles]

I have been abusing the crap outta this one lately.  With Fang, it's ridiculously fast and you can still do decent damage against enemies with your ginsu knives.

 

I agree that it is just as unintentional as wave dashing and needs to be nerfed for the same reason.  Rhino is supposed to be a slower frame, dagger skating, or whatever you want to call it, breaks the speed characteristic of warframes.

 

The real solution is that DE needs to make some kind of incentive for people to stick together! 

[PapaKicks]

Why would you remove the dash?

 

Why shouldn't some maneuvers, that you can train, make you faster? Cause it doens't look good? That's not a good reason in my opinion.

 

That's the exact reason DE removed the previous method.

[Kobalt]

I think catching up with faster frames is a cop out! This breaks game balance plain and simple, fun or not. People who like it should suggest the an alternative over this that doesn't break the speed systems put in place. Most frames that are slow are slow for a reason [iE: they are tankier or they potentially have a "back row role" in a team setup]. Frames that are faster usually are so to make up for the fact that they are frail and have built in melee dependency.

Once you view sprint speed as a discount on incoming damage [sprint speed can be viewed as a function of area over time, considering enemy fire rates when closing on them it can also be viewed as damage over the same time], you begin to see the problem with frames like Frost having access to it without having to pay for it. This effect does not just increase their speed, but also their survivability!

The problem people are having is one of community and a disparity in view of how the game should be played. People in the rush group view a level as a competition of speed and kills. People who aren't see the game as more of a team game. If you are in the second group the speed of your frame doesn't matter, because the faster frames don't leave you behind. Needless to say, workable or not, an exploit is an exploit. For the same reason as before when people were macroing wave dash, this too should be removed!

Edited May 20, 2013 by Kobalt

[Argoms]

I don't see any reason to remove this.

 

Why shouldn't some maneuvers, that you can train, make you faster? Cause it doens't look good? That's not a good reason in my opinion.

Maybe that's because I played some older games, that had maneuvers, that made you 3 to 5 times faster, but weren't implimented on purpose. In these games abusing the (buggy) movement combos were just part of the skill.

 

So I would prever to keep skill based movement speed in the game, especially if combat is affected by a fixing the movement.

If we were talking about something like rocket jumping, which actually requires skill and acts as a tradeoff of health for mobility, I'd agree.

 

However, this is a technique that is easily done through simple macros and has no downsides, so it's just adding more repetitive keypresses (unless you use a macro, which is allowed).