Style Meter Anyone?

[--GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO--]

That's great, let's argue semantics now.

Anyhow, I've said everything I had to say. Everyone is free to their own opinion. I don't like it. But to each their own.

 

 

I really do not see what's hard to understand.

 

If you don't want to increase the meter then don't,

 

if you want to spam 4, then do it.

 

if you want to use only Primary, then do it.

 

if you want to use only melee then do it.

 

if you want to use only abilities, then fricken do it.

 

 

It's not forcing you to do anything.  A visual gauge doesn't FORCE you to do anything.

 

And even if it does increase rewards by however much, that's all up to you too. You can still fricken do whatever you want if you don't care for the slight boosts.  It's not like you're getting a boost in the mission drop such as prime parts and blueprints... so who the hell cares?

 

 

There is absolute zero things about semantics here.  It's all about what's being described.

 

 

And in addition, knowing how the style meter works in Devil May Cry, if you get hit, you lose all of the meter.  A lot of players get hit in this game from the most random things sometimes.  I doubt the supposed boosts would really matter.  It's whether or not you care.

 

If you're only using a Tonkor and nothing else, chances are you're killing faster and earning more EXP quicker, because you're killing faster and not caring about the style meter.  Think about that.

 

It's like:

 

Do I search for rare orokin containers, sphere bubbles in the big room, or secret rooms, OR JUST RUSH THIS CAPTURE MISSION?

 

 

 

It's not like anyone in your squad is going to tell you to increase your style meter:

 

"ey ey ey tenbro, listen up muh man, youz came come in here and stylin and shiz ann ya get the guuci lootz ya hear muh dog? if ye dont imma rek you right in the gabba."  -literally will never happen either.

 

What will still happen and be forced upon people is other players telling you what frame/weapons to bring.

Edited July 1, 2015 by GoatGodJohn

[(PSN)ShuhanX]

I actually like this idea. Gaining benifits by using variety is a good way to promote the non use of spamming. If implemented correctly, it wouldn't alienate single-style playstyles, as you'd just be able to play normally and wouldn't be penalized for not being "stylish". Merely, you wouldn't gain the newly added benifits. However, even a melee-only playstyle can benefit from this. It's somewhat similar in concept to the current side missions in any given mission, where you gain extra affinity for achieving certain feats in-game (ie; Kill 5 enemies with a Slide Attack). Warframe has so many ways to deal damage, there's no way one couldn't keep their meter full, even with a single-style playstyle. Slide attacks, jump attacks, wall attacks, basic melee, melee combos, the new parkour "bounce off the enemy" skill, slam attacks, primaries, secondaries....and not a single one of these require energy. Not to mention stamina will no longer hinder the aforementioned attack options.

[(PSN)SuperGids]

That was merely a mistake.  I meant decrease swap to actually allow easier swapping, not making it harder =p

I actually think small passives like this should be tied into mastery rank, I mean if you've mastered hundreds of weapons and firearms would it not makes sense that you've picked up some good habits?

Other ideas could be small (1%) buffs on things like power efficiency at various mastery ranks. Might actually give more meaning tof attaining ranks.

Anyway sorry to derail.... I think that the idea about verified attack styles gives you more affinity makes sense as well as encourages the player to engage more. +1

[RpTheHotrod]

That's just dumb honestly.

 

You can still play the way you want.

 

The meter just won't go up for you.  It's not forcing you to do anything.  It may encourage you, but not force you.  Big difference.

In a game about efficiency, you're not given much choice in the manner. Take Draco for example. Just about everyone is running it. Is it because it's exciting? Fun? No...it's about efficiency.   Just let people play how they want to play...what makes it fun for them. This isn't a competitive game against everyone else. By making it where your game is more efficient by playing "this" way....having to fill some "style" bar, you're effectively forcing people's hands to have to play "that" way because it's more efficient...and again...warframe is about efficiency (the most efficient = pushing players to have to do that. See coptering. See Draco. Etc...). Even movement...which is why everyone does coptering instead of running to the next place.

 

If someone wants to spam one thing...more power to them. If someone wants to mix it up and do a bunch of things...more power to them.

 

If this was some sort of competitive thing...then yes...I don't think spamming should be a viable option...but we aren't competing with each other. Does anyone really care that player Y from chat channel Z just crafted Mirage? No. Do they care? Yes. It's a game about the individual and the buddies they play with. Let them play how they like to play (as long as it's within the rules).

Edited July 1, 2015 by RpTheHotrod

[EmptyDevil]

In a game about efficiency, you're not given much choice in the manner. Take Draco for example. Just about everyone is running it. Is it because it's exciting? Fun? No...it's about efficiency.   Just let people play how they want to play...what makes it fun for them. This isn't a competitive game against everyone else. By making it where your game is more efficient by playing "this" way....having to fill some "style" bar, you're effectively forcing people's hands to have to play "that" way because it's more efficient...and again...warframe is about efficiency (the most efficient = pushing players to have to do that. See coptering. See Draco. Etc...). Even movement...which is why everyone does coptering instead of running to the next place.

 

If someone wants to spam one thing...more power to them. If someone wants to mix it up and do a bunch of things...more power to them.

 

If this was some sort of competitive thing...then yes...I don't think spamming should be a viable option...but we aren't competing with each other. Does anyone really care that player Y from chat channel Z just crafted Mirage? No. Do they care? Yes. It's a game about the individual and the buddies they play with. Let them play how they like to play (as long as it's within the rules).

 

This game isn't about efficiency, some players would like to believe it is but that is not DE intentions. Game developers usually try to make a game about fun. 

 

This doesn't make sense:

 

"Does anyone really care that player Y from chat channel Z just crafted Mirage? No. Do they care? Yes."

 

Some players actually do care what others get or do, we see it in the forums and community a lot. The Nef Vs. Alad event is the perfect example of this. Some players knew exactly what their goal was and wanted the Dera Vandal or Karak Wraith. They had the choice to stick to one side to get what they wanted but as soon as they see someone else getting good stuff, they feel like they are being forced to play the other side and scream rigged.

 

Do you see what i'm getting at? If DE implemented something like this, each individual would have the choice to ignore it or do it once in the mission. The players that go out of their way and do the extra work will get bonus rewards and those that don't go the extra mile simply don't. However, the people who don't do it will feel entitled to getting it anyway and whine. Some of the players have a completionist mindset, greedy mindset, self-entitled mindset, and competitive mindset when it comes to rewards. These are the only ones that will find a negative in a system like this or similar side missions.

[--GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO--]

In a game about efficiency, you're not given much choice in the manner. Take Draco for example. Just about everyone is running it. Is it because it's exciting? Fun? No...it's about efficiency.   Just let people play how they want to play...what makes it fun for them. This isn't a competitive game against everyone else. By making it where your game is more efficient by playing "this" way....having to fill some "style" bar, you're effectively forcing people's hands to have to play "that" way because it's more efficient...and again...warframe is about efficiency (the most efficient = pushing players to have to do that. See coptering. See Draco. Etc...). Even movement...which is why everyone does coptering instead of running to the next place.

 

If someone wants to spam one thing...more power to them. If someone wants to mix it up and do a bunch of things...more power to them.

 

If this was some sort of competitive thing...then yes...I don't think spamming should be a viable option...but we aren't competing with each other. Does anyone really care that player Y from chat channel Z just crafted Mirage? No. Do they care? Yes. It's a game about the individual and the buddies they play with. Let them play how they like to play (as long as it's within the rules).

 

 

Keeping your style meter up is like searching for rare rooms/stuff in a capture mission.

 

 

 

It isn't forcing you to do anything.

 

 

The bonuses seem meager at best.

 

 

For Example.

 

You may kill more enemies by using Mesa and Speed Nova during Interception, thus giving more exp

 

VS

 

Fighting with absolute style.

 

 

 

EVEN IF you still use non-stylish cheese-mechanics, you're more than likely to get higher rewards than keeping up a style meter.

 

The only real thing a style meter would do is to encourage people to mix their style up, nothing much more.

Edited July 1, 2015 by GoatGodJohn

[RpTheHotrod]

This game isn't about efficiency, some players would like to believe it is but that is not DE intentions. Game developers usually try to make a game about fun. 

 

This doesn't make sense:

 

"Does anyone really care that player Y from chat channel Z just crafted Mirage? No. Do they care? Yes."

 

Some players actually do care what others get or do, we see it in the forums and community a lot. The Nef Vs. Alad event is the perfect example of this. Some players knew exactly what their goal was and wanted the Dera Vandal or Karak Wraith. They had the choice to stick to one side to get what they wanted but as soon as they see someone else getting good stuff, they feel like they are being forced to play the other side and scream rigged.

 

Do you see what i'm getting at? If DE implemented something like this, each individual would have the choice to ignore it or do it once in the mission. The players that go out of their way and do the extra work will get bonus rewards and those that don't go the extra mile simply don't. However, the people who don't do it will feel entitled to getting it anyway and whine. Some of the players have a completionist mindset, greedy mindset, self-entitled mindset, and competitive mindset when it comes to rewards. These are the only ones that will find a negative in a system like this or similar side missions.

Like I said, pushing players into a way where they feel forced to play a way they don't feel like isn't the way to go. You pointed this out yourself, here. Let them play how they wish to feel.

[RpTheHotrod]

Keeping your style meter up is like searching for rare rooms/stuff in a capture mission.

 

 

 

It isn't forcing you to do anything.

 

 

The bonuses seem meager at best.

 

 

For Example.

 

You may kill more enemies by using Mesa and Speed Nova during Interception, does giving more exp

 

VS

 

Fighting with absolute style.

 

 

 

EVEN IF you still use non-stylish cheese-mechanics, you're more than likely to get higher rewards than keeping up a style meter.

 

The only real thing a style meter would do is to encourage people to mix their style up, nothing much more.

As long as it's not that big of a deal I don't really mind it. I was just stating my opinion, though. I'd prefer to play my way without feeling compelled to play in a way that contradicts it. 

 

For what it's worth, I'm pro-mixing it up. I think spamming one thing is boring. Regardless, I realize...some people do enjoy that kind of gameplay and we shouldn't just shut them out.

[porrito01]

We already have a small system like this, this is simply the idea of expanding it!

This!

[Monybags33]

Having combo systems is a really cool idea and keeps up with the pace but idk if it can every be implemented in Warframe at its currently development trend. DMC is one of my favorite games so I can also see what exactly your talking about, I say its worth a try if Parkour was looked over again why cant general fighting?

[(PSN)Onyxflamegod]

I don't like this idea until we gain a proper combat system with our melee weapons. Currently we have DMC1 tier melee which didn't punish you for using the same move over and over. Until we get 2 button melee or a generally smoother/more responsive melee I'm going to have to disagree with this.

[--GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO--]

I don't like this idea until we gain a proper combat system with our melee weapons. Currently we have DMC1 tier melee which didn't punish you for using the same move over and over. Until we get 2 button melee or a generally smoother/more responsive melee I'm going to have to disagree with this.

 

 

Yes, the melee 2.0 doesn't offer much variety when you get down to it.

 

Most people use only one combo from a stance, and that is it.  In addition they removed the charge attacks... which could have stayed without causing issues.

 

Like what you say with the two button melee, I also thought the melee should be like that.  Lift clicks would do fast strikes and right clicks would do a bigger attack.

 

 

Example for Longswords:

 

L + R = quick slash and then a heavy upper cut

 

L + L + R = two quick slashes and a heavy sideways cut.

 

L + L + L + R + R = three quick slashes followed by a heavy downward diagonal slash, then followed by a heavy upward diagonal slash in the other direction.

 

 

If anyone has ever played Vindictus, they will know what I am talking about.

[(PSN)MakoPriest]

First I whip it out! Then I thrust it...! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength! I... ram it in! And in the end...we are all satisfied...And you are set free!

[(PSN)Kish_Lat]

This is a great idea you have.

Edited July 1, 2015 by (PS4)Kish_Lat

[Casval_Rouge]

I don't like this idea until we gain a proper combat system with our melee weapons. Currently we have DMC1 tier melee which didn't punish you for using the same move over and over. Until we get 2 button melee or a generally smoother/more responsive melee I'm going to have to disagree with this.

 

Why do you think we need a proper combat system for melee to have this work?  While I agree Melee 2.0 is not perfect but this idea doesn't require melee to be as tight as a DMC game.  To put it simply, all you have to do is to do something different once a while.  Because in order to not get anything about of this stylish meter idea, you would literally have to:

 

1. Only bring your melee with no stance.

2.Never or rarely use any powers.

3. Never use slide attack, slam, jump attack, flying kick, riposte, finishers, and all the moves you have access to regardless of ranks, mods, and levels.

4.  You only spam E.

 

Then in that case, yes the gauge won't go up at all.  But if you consistently perform any other moves along with spamming E, the gauge would steadily go up over the duration of the mission, and you get bonus exp for it. 

 

But if you really don't like melee in this game, and still refuse to bring a gun or use powers then I don't know what to say =/

[(PSN)Onyxflamegod]

Why do you think we need a proper combat system for melee to have this work?  While I agree Melee 2.0 is not perfect but this idea doesn't require melee to be as tight as a DMC game.  To put it simply, all you have to do is to do something different once a while.  Because in order to not get anything about of this stylish meter idea, you would literally have to:

 

1. Only bring your melee with no stance.

2.Never or rarely use any powers.

3. Never use slide attack, slam, jump attack, flying kick, riposte, finishers, and all the moves you have access to regardless of ranks, mods, and levels.

4.  You only spam E.

 

Then in that case, yes the gauge won't go up at all.  But if you consistently perform any other moves along with spamming E, the gauge would steadily go up over the duration of the mission, and you get bonus exp for it. 

 

But if you really don't like melee in this game, and still refuse to bring a gun or use powers then I don't know what to say =/

Let's address these and put aside my concern for the crappy melee system we currently have [out of fairness to the system being proposed to our game as-is], and look currently at my favorite loadout that I also currently have.

My currently favorite loadout is Speed Volt Prime wielding Brutal Tide Kogake, with Hikou as my weapon in the event i ABSOLUTELY need the range. Which I then use from behind my shield.

Not to point out the problems I see solely with the examples you gave me;

1. I only actively use my melee weapon, but the stance's main BnB move is my mash E to win combo, so I wouldn't gain style.

2. I use my powers, but so far and few between my kung fu dancing, (duration build) that I only need to apply every so often.

3. The only thing like this that I even use is directional air melee, because with speed, you can actually reach airborne enemies. However DE has (not sure if they confirmed it yet) HEAVILY hinted that it's either getting nixed or severely gimped.

4. I'm running speed build Kogake, It's literally so fast that I can ONLY mash E.

Now, if we had a PROPER combat system, I'd have a reason to use the flashy slides and flips and air kicks and such, in addition to actually being able to perform different combos. Unless I intentionally plan to use a frame or weapon that I don't want to use (and even then, a majority of the ones I use are only effective with base E,E,E combos. -looks at my dakra-) in order for this to work, because a majority of the weapons suffer drastically by not having some sort of expanded melee, it'd not be an effective system at all. I very much would like to bring out my say, Kittag or Whips, hell even Aegis and do flashy combos and rack up style points/meter. But those weapons all suffer pretty badly from our current melee system.

Edited July 2, 2015 by (PS4)Onyxflamegod

[Casval_Rouge]

Ok I see.  Then yes you won't gain meter playing like that.  But the beauty of it, is that you'll still be rewarded just like you were before.  So it doesn't affect you.  I mean you clearly don't have a problem of deliberately handicapping yourself to play how you like, then surely a meter that is design to discourage spamming is not going to affect you.  Play how you want. 

[--GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO--]

Ok I see.  Then yes you won't gain meter playing like that.  But the beauty of it, is that you'll still be rewarded just like you were before.  So it doesn't affect you.  I mean you clearly don't have a problem of deliberately handicapping yourself to play how you like, then surely a meter that is design to discourage spamming is not going to affect you.  Play how you want. 

 

 

The way you say "deliberately handicapping" is just fuel for fire.

 

If people are still able to play how they want, then it's not a handicap.  The style meter is just an incentive for slight bonuses.

[Casval_Rouge]

The way you say "deliberately handicapping" is just fuel for fire.

 

If people are still able to play how they want, then it's not a handicap.  The style meter is just an incentive for slight bonuses.

 

It is if you are limiting yourself.  Doesn't mean it is somehow bad, I never said that it is.  No need to take it the wrong way.  I myself play an Ember melee tanking build with only the sword and board all the time.  When I could be playing a different warframe with boltor prime and perform much better.  But I do it as a personal challenge  while also enjoying the freedom of playing how I want in a game about customizations.  But I don't think a meter will somehow make me not wanting to play how I want before.

[(PSN)Onyxflamegod]

Ok I see.  Then yes you won't gain meter playing like that.  But the beauty of it, is that you'll still be rewarded just like you were before.  So it doesn't affect you.  I mean you clearly don't have a problem of deliberately handicapping yourself to play how you like, then surely a meter that is design to discourage spamming is not going to affect you.  Play how you want. 

I fail to see how it's intentionally handicapping myself, first off. I said Volt Prime, not Banshee. Only tankier frame is Hysteria. If I took off my QT, Hysteria and Chroma.

And the "to discourage spamming" is irrelevant when it's damn near impossible to actually do any other combo with some setups, or with the majority of melee weapons ACTIVELY BAD to use other combos. Which is the gaping flaw in the entire idea, not everything CAN be used with this style system. It'd essentially be the same as adding rare loot rooms with exclusive mods that only teleport loki or nova can get to. Then, by your reasoning "You have no problem intentionally handicapping yourself to not get these rooms so clearly it doesn't affect you."

If it's not a system that every frame/weapon can benefit from (or at least the majority), there's no reason to add it. Not every frame has abilities that they're constantly using or rotating, for example anyone running Rhino Prime solely for Vanguard and Iron Skin or Eternal War Valk who skills once at the beginning of the game then goes into melee (spamming the most effective combo to maintain WC) and never skills again. As is, with our current frame powers setup and melee system, not many things could actually use it effectively. At least not in late game content. The entire reason DMC lets you build style from spam in DMC1 is because of the poor combat system, and they knew it. That's why they didn't fix it until DMC2 where they actually had a proper system in place (comparably) instead of DMC1: Resident Evil Edition. And currently, we're still in DMC1 tier combat, and the effective combat is spam to win. Doing elsewise would gimp me, and anyone else trying to actually play effectively on anything higher than earth.

[Shirafunes]

Why do you think we need a proper combat system for melee to have this work?  While I agree Melee 2.0 is not perfect but this idea doesn't require melee to be as tight as a DMC game.  To put it simply, all you have to do is to do something different once a while.  Because in order to not get anything about of this stylish meter idea, you would literally have to:

 

1. Only bring your melee with no stance.

2.Never or rarely use any powers.

3. Never use slide attack, slam, jump attack, flying kick, riposte, finishers, and all the moves you have access to regardless of ranks, mods, and levels.

4.  You only spam E.

 

Then in that case, yes the gauge won't go up at all.  But if you consistently perform any other moves along with spamming E, the gauge would steadily go up over the duration of the mission, and you get bonus exp for it. 

 

But if you really don't like melee in this game, and still refuse to bring a gun or use powers then I don't know what to say =/

why is it that you always have to give people anything to make them do it there is no reason to get more exp, i dont get what is up with this spoon feed rub my back policy people have going on, if this changes i want more exp easy drop rate mentality.

[EmptyDevil]

Like I said, pushing players into a way where they feel forced to play a way they don't feel like isn't the way to go. You pointed this out yourself, here. Let them play how they wish to feel.

 

It. Is. Not. Pushing. Them. They are pushing themselves with greed. Did you even read and comprehend what i just wrote?

[Vaxillian]

why is it that you always have to give people anything to make them do it there is no reason to get more exp, i dont get what is up with this spoon feed rub my back policy people have going on, if this changes i want more exp easy drop rate mentality.

 

This isn't a way to get extra affinity, this is the idea of changing the whole system.

[01101010]

It. Is. Not. Pushing. Them. They are pushing themselves with greed. Did you even read and comprehend what i just wrote?

 

Online video gaming is all about greed in the end. So yeah... over time, it will be pushing them. It will become the norm given enough time and then everyone will be clamoring for something else.

[r0ckwolf]

Hell @(*()$ yes to this!