Feedback-Lech Kril And The Two New Grineer Units

[Madotsuki]

With the arrival of Update 8, Lech Kril got a re-make and two new grineer units have been introduced. Below are some thoughts I have about them, such as suggestions and tweaks.

Lech Kril

Lech Kril has been turned from yet another bullet sponge level to the MOST INTERESTING BOSS IN THE GAME, and for that i congratulate you, DE. The two phases is interesting and surprising, both phases are intense, the red orb weakspot is a fun addition to the boss fight and is much more interesting than the giant "weakspot" legs that Jackal has, and I am generally amazed at how well done Lech Kril's boss fight is. This is definately the right direction to follow for future boss fights, and tweaking existing ones.

I'm mostly satisfied with the boss fight as is, except for one little thing. The Fire Wave during Phase 2 needs a bit of a buff. Right now it is essentially the same as Ice Wave, although changed to a DoT while standing in it. The problem i find is that the fire wave simply lasts too short before disappearing, making the ability almost trivial. What I suggest is having the Fire Wave remain for longer, approximately the same period as the Napalm's fire traps. It's not like Kril can spam the Fire Wave, so I think it's fair, and would also differentiate Fire Wave from Ice Wave.

Grineer Scorpion

I'm not sure what to think about her. Her gimmick is that she can throw a grappling hook to drag you towards her. Now, I have encountered her in different situations, so here's my analysis on her. In THEORY, the grappling hook is a good idea. There is ample time to roll away from her after recovering from the grappling hook to avoid damage in a one on one battle. However, a group of Scorpions can easily spam grapple you, which is intensely annoying, especially since the hooks are nigh-unavoidable. Combine 2-3 Scorpions with a horde of other Grineers, especially the Rollers which seems to have an increased spawn rate though it might just be a coincidence, and you have one of the most annoying and frustrating enemies in the game, possibly more so than Rollers.

What I propose is, while I like the concept of the Scorpion, the fact that they can take away your control by knocking you down on grapple and is pretty much unavoidable makes them even MORE annoying than Rollers, if that's even possible. This can be remedied by a simple tweak: Allow players to still shoot while being grappled. Yes, let them knock me down on the ground, let them drag me towards them, but let me still shoot while I'm being dragged, so I can still take down the Scorpion or other enemies or, better yet, the grapple rope itself, and defend myself. As a counter-buff towards this tweak, instead of releasing me after I get back up from the knockdown animation, have the Scorpion be able to drag me all the way to her once you're grappled until you can kill her or break the rope, and decrease accuracy on all weapons while you're being dragged.

Grineer Scorches

I don't know whether you guys got the idea from me or somewhere else, but I like them a lot. High DoT units to flush people out of cover, I like it. Not sure what to improve about them, aside from the fact that their AI often wonks out, making them spray fire even from a long distance away, nowhere close to reaching me with the fire. Hell I've seen one Scorch try to "snipe" me with his flamethrower, that was hilarious. There's also the fact that they seem just a tad too common. I'm frequently seeing these guys in groups of 2 or 3. I would think that a unit like the Scorch should only spawn as much as Seekers. So it would be nice if their AI can be improved so they are more aggressive (or at least don't try to "snipe" me with flamethrowers) and slightly decrease their spawn rate down to Seeker level.

Tl;dr

So to sum up my suggested tweaks for these units, Lech Kril's fire wave needs to have an extended duration to properly work as a fire trap, players should still be allowed to shoot while being dragged by Grineer Scorpions, and Scorches need to have their AI improved while slightly decreasing their spawn rate to Seeker level.

[Nubsawce]

I will speak here, also, about Scorpions. They are, in my opinion, another step in the absolute wrong direction for the Grineer.

 

Scorchers are good, fine, they don't stun you. That's basically what I pray for whenever I hear about a new Grineer unit. I think there is an issue when I'm not looking forward to your new enemies, DE. The problem is that you think stunning me is challenging. It's not challenging. It's just frustrating and it gets me killed.

 

Scorpions especially get solo players killed. Try fighting Tyl Regor, even, while solo. If even one scorpion spawns, you might just get chunked by him while stunned, full to zero.

 

I don't understand. There has been tons and tons of feedback against stuns. Why keep putting them in the game? I'm beginning to never want to play a Grineer map ever again.

[gopher]

but guys,

it's the grineer

[KageNoShini]

for the scorpion, I'd like it if you could shoot them while being pulled to them, like smokers from L4D/L4D2, but have it so you can shoot at them the whole time.

[TinyLesbianRobot]

I was about to post a thread suggesting that players be allowed to shoot while grappled XD

[ValhaHazred]

It worked for Smokers in L4D, it will work for Warframe.

It might be a good idea to let you shoot on the ground when knocked down by anything.

[EclipsedHusky]

I actually love the scorpion chicks. Was playing with friends and every time we'd get grabbed it was a big deal. "SHE"S GOT ME HELP!!!" It adds drama to the battlefield :D

 

Haven't fought Krill again yet since I am unlocking planets still....

 

Fire guys....Well I like them and think they are a bit silly, new maps and bigger rooms make them just kind of like flares for the Tenno to ignore until later. I do like the idea, but one example was a defense mission.. I told my buddies to not kill the guy cause he was in cover and since he has limited range we just ran around getting the items and such. MIght need to make them more aggressive?

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Spuder grineer, spider grineer,

Does whatever a spider can,

Spins a web? Anytime.

Catching Tennos just like flies.

Look out! Here comes the Spider grineer...

GET OVER HERE!

[A5PECT]

I agree that Scorpions are a great concept, but they need a lot of tweaking. Their hooks are hitscan, thrown isntantaneously, and fairly long ranged. So the moment you get anywhere near one, there's zero chance of not being grappled. At least with other enemies' stun attacks there's some window to escape. Then, once you're grappled by a Scorpion there's absolutely nothing you can do until you get up. Not very fun game design, in my opinion.

 

- The hooks should have actual travel time i.e. not hitscan. They should still travel very quickly and at close range be a guaranteed hit. But if a Scorpion launches a hook at their maximum range, a quick-witted player should at least have a chance to evade it.

 

- Attach a short charge/windup time to Scorpions' hook attacks. It can be brief, but there must be a window where the attack is telegraphed to the player and they are given a chance to react.

 

- Once hooked, the player shouldn't be completely powerless. When hooked, instead of sending the player into the standard knockdown animation, put them in something of a temporary, pesud-downed state where they can still use their secondary weapon while being dragged across the floor (anyone that's played Dead Space will know exactly what I'm talking about).

 

Naturally, increases in drag duration and maximum/minimum range would do well alongside those changes to compensate for their decreased difficulty.

Edited May 24, 2013 by A5PECT

[AzureNarwhal]

My first thought is to add a laser sight to the hook before it fires so that you can dodge it.

 

Although I suppose that might be a bit too obvious.

[Firestorm29]

Why not just have a scorp act like an ancient's arm attack?

[alocrius]

for the scorpion, I'd like it if you could shoot them while being pulled to them, like smokers from L4D/L4D2, but have it so you can shoot at them the whole time.

this sounds reasonable, it did work in L4D.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Mrst thought is to add a laser sight to the hook before it fires so that you can dodge it.

 

Although I suppose that might be a bit too obvious.

No, this is an excellent idea.

By making it obvious, it allows players to know they should start dodging and not just stand at one spot and fire at a general direction.

The more daring players will also try to take out the scorpion before he gets hit.

Edited May 24, 2013 by OoKeNnEtHoO