Dear Devs: The Current Dojo System Is Making You Lose A Lot Of Potential Profit (Solution For Big Vs. Small Clan Included)

[Luxangel7]

Today's Livestream gave a little insight to how DE is currently looking at the Clans. How are you thinking about things now, knowing DE has posed a 50 man clan as an example of what they consider 'the small guys' they want to rebalance for?

 

 There is still a lot that is subject to change, like always, but it is definitely an interesting prospect to have there be a number from DE to consider.

 

It's an interesting question you pose, and I can personally say that I am very relieved that they know it is an issue, and that some consideration and changes need to be implemented.

 

Having said that however, I personally think the 50 number to be an unrealistic number for "small" clans. I can very easily see how a clan could reach 50 members and all be friendly etc. and not just be in it for the "rewards", however I believe they need to take another look at what they consider small.

 

At the end of the day, even though I believe very much in my suggested system, my only hope is that whatever system they decide to go forward with, that it be one that takes into consideration many sizes of clans, including a small clan comprising of approximately 10+ members. Of which, some may not be as active as the others.

 

I obviously speak with a personal bias, because I have real life friends and friends made on steam and those are the people that I have formed a clan with. (although some have not been online since U8) They are the people that I regularly skype and play with. Will we be fine with adding in game friends that aren't so "well known" to us? Of course! However I strongly believe this to be a normal, very frequent base model that can be applied to many 'average' gamers out there. 

 

So in short, I am happy that they realize it's an issue,(as I had faith they would) although a bit concerned that they consider 50 people 'small'.

 

And also, I was a little concerned at their perception (unless I misunderstood) that many of those who complained wanted "instant gratification". Personally speaking, that is the last thing I want. I would argue that those who wanted instant gratification were the clans who went out and bought all the forma needed to immediately make all the dojo stuff and more, in some cases even making much larger dojos than necessary, in anticipation of future content. As well as assimilating as many members as possible for the required resources needed. 

 

I have no trouble having a goal, especially a difficult one, hell, I want a challenging goal. I just don't want an impossible one. But like I said, I think these devs are really great, really. I have faith that they will do what is best for the success of their game and my gaming experience. So I am hopefully optimistic right now. 

 

(as I usually am)  :P

[Blatantfool]

 I think it is worth keeping in mind that the whole '50 people = Small' thing isn't just DE totally missing the point. Seen a few posters on the forums today who feel that way.

 

 I imagine they've got a mountain of Clan-related Data. Including things like numbers of Average users and activity among which clans and where.

 

 I believe this example stems from DE sitting down with all these numbers and deciding that 50 was a good place to start to suit both their needs and the needs of the Game.

 

They briefly spoke of how they feel like it is fairly realistic to expect a clan of about 50 people to have maybe 20 enterprising and dedicated players ready to farm up that content no problem. So if you think about it, them even acknowledging that even in a clan of 50 you can't seriously expect them all to be hardcore farming types shows that even changes for the better of groups around 50 will still benefit even smaller clans still - you've just gotta buckle your pants and really get working if you are that small.

[Luxangel7]

Of course, what you say is true, that's why I admittedly said that it's my personally biased opinion. However, while what you say is valid, I would also say "why not?"

 

As in, why not employ a system that allows you to cater to any clan size and profit / be fair at the same time? And now, please don't take that as me saying "they should do what I say". My suggestion is just one example, that I came up with in about 30 minutes. I'm sure that if they want to they can employ a system that allows for smaller than 50 member clans to thrive as well. 

 

My worry comes from the fact that in my mind, a 50 member clan with 20 active members, should be able to complete everything currently available at a normal pace. (by this I don't mean a single weekend ofc) So it all depends on what they come up with at the end both in terms of what system to employ and what requirements to impose.

 

For now, the ball is definitely in their court, (as it often is) they have seen and understood that things as they are now don't work for smaller clans, they have had plenty of people put forward logical potential solutions, and last but not least they themselves are good at what they do so like I said, I am hopeful and optimistic that they will make changes for the better. 

 

And your last points are also right, which is also another reason why i am optimistic. My hope is that they at least make changes that make smaller than 50 clans possible. If me and my friends have to play twice as long or twice as hard as a bigger clan, I'm ok with that. At the end of the day, like I said, I like a challenge. Otherwise I'd be in one of the mega clans right now waiting to be able to make my Dera.

 

(I really want that gun....)

 

And let's not forget that Warframe isn't an MMO. It's a 4 person co-op TPS. So to force players into what many would view a large clan as a clan of 50 or more is undoubtedly going to confuse and frustrate many. (including myself) We don't have raids, we don't have open world environments etc, so it's definitely in my opinion possible and will be an interesting and a fun feature, but it needs to be tailored to remember what the game is, and not what clans became because of the crazy high resource/forma requirements.

 

However I appreciate your viewpoint and opinions on the matter, even if we haven't always agreed on things. :)

Edited May 30, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[Blatantfool]

 Currently I'm thinking of pushing the idea of building an Alliance system into the game - then having their be an Inter-clan 'donating' system for materials.

 

 

 Imagine if your small Clan could actually get some help from a larger one to get things built? I mean three or four months from now that kind of thing would be pretty good for large Clans just to give them something to do. 

 

 Just been a thought I've been playing with recently. No reason not to build plenty of methods to 'spread the wealth' into the game. 

 

 

 Of course - that isn't a complete solution. It is more like a release valve that'd help vent some of the stress in the system.

[Luxangel7]

 Currently I'm thinking of pushing the idea of building an Alliance system into the game - then having their be an Inter-clan 'donating' system for materials.

 

 

 Imagine if your small Clan could actually get some help from a larger one to get things built? I mean three or four months from now that kind of thing would be pretty good for large Clans just to give them something to do. 

 

 Just been a thought I've been playing with recently. No reason not to build plenty of methods to 'spread the wealth' into the game. 

 

 

 Of course - that isn't a complete solution. It is more like a release valve that'd help vent some of the stress in the system.

 

Sorry it took me a while to answer :P Yeah this sounds like a good "release valve" measure as you put it, as a concept I like it even though I'd be naturally curious to see how they implement it in game. As in what reason / benefit they would give larger mega clans for donating to smaller clans and how it would actally work without just asking people for resources on the forums. Because I can imagine many would ask 'whats the point' since new content is always on the way and many would prefer to stockpile for the future instead of donate now out of altruism.

 

Also - I edited my OP about "optimizing" whoever makes the gameplay related financial decisions/analysis as rereading that I realized that although I said it with the best of intentions, it seemed arrogant after the fact. I know it's too late now, but still...I personally know how many factors are behind a person/groups performance within a company and I think I let my passion for the game get the best of me when I wrote that part, it's really an internal consideration that I shouldn't comment on....

 

But I guess if everything we wrote/said on the forums were perfect there would be no need for the edit button...

Edited May 31, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[SymphNo9]

 Currently I'm thinking of pushing the idea of building an Alliance system into the game - then having their be an Inter-clan 'donating' system for materials.

 

 

 Imagine if your small Clan could actually get some help from a larger one to get things built? I mean three or four months from now that kind of thing would be pretty good for large Clans just to give them something to do. 

 

 Just been a thought I've been playing with recently. No reason not to build plenty of methods to 'spread the wealth' into the game. 

 

 

 Of course - that isn't a complete solution. It is more like a release valve that'd help vent some of the stress in the system.

 

There should be a direct and obvious incentive to donate to the common pool, and be in an alliance for that matter. Otherwise I predict people will set their own clan as priority and only donate when they feel like it. If so, it would thus take ages to gather enough resources in the pool just to build a connector piece. Because why should you care for other clans if the game has no PVP (duels do not count) and the maximum amount of player interaction on missions are 4 people and Dojo content is released frequently?

 

Perhaps clans could construct specialiazed labs which grant each member in the clan a passive buff when undergoing missions. The clan should only be allowed to build one or two of those specialized labs. And when the clan joins an alliance, the alliance members will also gain the passive bonus (perhaps a fraction of the original value), and vice versa. So it is "trading" with passive bonuses, which are the incentive to donate in the common pool to further the progression and prosperity of your allies.

[Luxangel7]

There should be a direct and obvious incentive to donate to the common pool, and be in an alliance for that matter. Otherwise I predict people will set their own clan as priority and only donate when they feel like it. If so, it would thus take ages to gather enough resources in the pool just to build a connector piece. Because why should you care for other clans if the game has no PVP (duels do not count) and the maximum amount of player interaction on missions are 4 people and Dojo content is released frequently?

 

Perhaps clans could construct specialiazed labs which grant each member in the clan a passive buff when undergoing missions. The clan should only be allowed to build one or two of those specialized labs. And when the clan joins an alliance, the alliance members will also gain the passive bonus (perhaps a fraction of the original value), and vice versa. So it is "trading" with passive bonuses, which are the incentive to donate in the common pool to further the progression and prosperity of your allies.

 

Oooo I like that idea, kind of like in Sins of a solar empire or Stardrive, those X space games where when you make an alliance, it goes beyond just not shooting at each other, but you unlock bonuses / abilities that otherwise would not be possible.

 

Very nice idea, simple and good!