Archwing Mechanics (A Trip To The Docking Bay For Some Much Needed Upgrades For Quality Of Life)

[CanadianWolverine]

I also find the mentioned flight mechanic changes to be encouraging, its realizing the strengths of the Archwings. Even if DE hasn't seen this thread, it means they have had similar conversations and reached similar conclusions that Archwing fighting looks and plays better in motion than hovering.

[Culaio]

I also find the mentioned flight mechanic changes to be encouraging, its realizing the strengths of the Archwings. Even if DE hasn't seen this thread, it means they have had similar conversations and reached similar conclusions that Archwing fighting looks and plays better in motion than hovering.

 

Now if only made so it was possible to fight at full speed when sprinting, I am also interested how fighting in "afterburn" mode could look, I expect that they are adding "afterburn" mode to help traveling on big maps(like archwing interception) instead of combat but fighting at high speed sounds very atttractive to me :).

[CanadianWolverine]

Agreed, fighting while the thrusters are on, specifically being able to shoot straight ahead and having some other specialized weapon systems like the shoulder and wing mount slots we've discussed would be ideal. Time to just wait and see what "Afterburn" Archwing 2.0 will play out like.

[Culaio]

I must say that, finding enemies after update become much  easier.

 

Afterburn mode was pretty unimpressive at first(didnt see much difference between it and normal sprint) but in patch they increased its speed.

 

also you can now feel the momentum of your movement in archwing game mode, literally feel it as you collide with walls in tight corridors......it would be great if they made corridors slightly wider.

[CrashLegacy14]

I haven't really gotten much time to play the Archwing stuff yet. Been too busy trying to get my glaive prime finished. what the hell is the drop rate on that blue print any way?

[Culaio]

I haven't really gotten much time to play the Archwing stuff yet. Been too busy trying to get my glaive prime finished. what the hell is the drop rate on that blue print any way?

 

thats the frustrating part, on the new maps there are parts of new archwing weapons but also parts of old archwing weapons, for example

archwing Mobile Defense (Earth) - Dual Decurion Reciever, Kaszas Handle, Phaedra Barrel, Velocitus Receiver

 

archwing Mobile Defense (Mars) - has EXACTLY same rewards as archwing Mobile Defense on Earth >_>

 

Phaedra Receiver was added to  archwing exterminate on venus which already has four other parts.....

 

archwing defense - Phaedra Stock, Kaszas Blade, Corvas Barrel, Corvas Stock

 

 

 

Also archwing defense is nowhere as exciting as they described it :(, you guard two objects that arent that far from each other  but going  between them can be frustrating if you want to reach it quickly(because of corridors + new momentum) when enemy is destroying it

Edited October 3, 2015 by Culaio

[CanadianWolverine]

17.5 Archwing Mechanics Thoughts:

 

I like the new radar, though it seems like it doesn't do as good a job of relating distance to target while it excels in showing us where we have to turn to face the target. Looks like we mostly got the improvement we wanted there.

 

The new Afterburner while momentarily fun, has no bearing on combat since we still get slowed down to hover mode when we fire our weapons or abilities but the melee is improved by it for closing the distance when taking a swing at an enemy but I never really had a problem with that before with the rank 10 Hyperion Thrusters at my disposal. Overall a nice addition but it could be better.

 

The exp being shared between team mates is helping some but I am not sure that people can wrap their minds around it, for some reason they think exp gain in Archwing is still slow but I've never really had a problem there either. Non-issue for me, I like playing Archwing, so what's a few more missions to rank up.

 

Still missing that I don't get to bring the Helios Sentinel along, scanning enemies is still a pain in the &#!, even with a fully upgraded Synthesis Scanner, the enemy have really jerky movements and don't sit still for a picture - who can blame them though, its space ninja flight combat, sitting still is just asking to get blasted.

 

The missile / heavy shot warning system, only goes part of the way needed that I have noticed so far, it lets you know you got incoming but not where the missile is coming from, part of the info you would need to properly react to a missile attack. Needs improvement with like a flashing red yellow triangle showing up around the incoming missiles / source of the heavy shot on the aforementioned new radar.

 

Hmm, did I miss any of the improvements in the mechanical systems of the Archwing?

 

Oh yeah, the new drift, I like it and don't like it, depends on which map I am flying. The Asteroid maps work great with the new momentum of flying fast but the re-used Fomorian blasting a Huge Space ship and we trench run it, it becomes a constant chore of slamming into this or that - those who get good at the speed run paths of the trenches are going to leave others in the dust really fast. That could be seen as both a good and bad thing, an annoying obstacle to overcome or a display of fantastic reflexes and skill.

 

TL:DR Summary

 

The 17.5 improvements to how Archwing plays are most certainly a step in the right direction, address a lot of concerns we had with how they play, they just don't go far enough in building on what makes playing Archwing fun - we still need to shoot / fire missiles / lay mines / fire flares / etc while Thrusters and then Afterburners are engaged. We still need direction on incoming Heavy Fire and Missiles. We still need a Archwing that can throw a significant shield around their intended target if they insist on us doing stationary hover/helicopter style flying defense. They are still missing component damage and directional invulnerability on regular enemies. Still missing improvements to Archwing secondary wing and shoulder weapon slots, utility slots, sentinel companion backpack slots, mods, and abilities.

[Culaio]

17.5 Archwing Mechanics Thoughts:

 

I like the new radar, though it seems like it doesn't do as good a job of relating distance to target while it excels in showing us where we have to turn to face the target. Looks like we mostly got the improvement we wanted there.

 

The new Afterburner while momentarily fun, has no bearing on combat since we still get slowed down to hover mode when we fire our weapons or abilities but the melee is improved by it for closing the distance when taking a swing at an enemy but I never really had a problem with that before with the rank 10 Hyperion Thrusters at my disposal. Overall a nice addition but it could be better.

 

The exp being shared between team mates is helping some but I am not sure that people can wrap their minds around it, for some reason they think exp gain in Archwing is still slow but I've never really had a problem there either. Non-issue for me, I like playing Archwing, so what's a few more missions to rank up.

 

Still missing that I don't get to bring the Helios Sentinel along, scanning enemies is still a pain in the !, even with a fully upgraded Synthesis Scanner, the enemy have really jerky movements and don't sit still for a picture - who can blame them though, its space ninja flight combat, sitting still is just asking to get blasted.

 

The missile / heavy shot warning system, only goes part of the way needed that I have noticed so far, it lets you know you got incoming but not where the missile is coming from, part of the info you would need to properly react to a missile attack. Needs improvement with like a flashing red yellow triangle showing up around the incoming missiles / source of the heavy shot on the aforementioned new radar.

 

Hmm, did I miss any of the improvements in the mechanical systems of the Archwing?

 

Oh yeah, the new drift, I like it and don't like it, depends on which map I am flying. The Asteroid maps work great with the new momentum of flying fast but the re-used Fomorian blasting a Huge Space ship and we trench run it, it becomes a constant chore of slamming into this or that - those who get good at the speed run paths of the trenches are going to leave others in the dust really fast. That could be seen as both a good and bad thing, an annoying obstacle to overcome or a display of fantastic reflexes and skill.

 

TL:DR Summary

 

The 17.5 improvements to how Archwing plays are most certainly a step in the right direction, address a lot of concerns we had with how they play, they just don't go far enough in building on what makes playing Archwing fun - we still need to shoot / fire missiles / lay mines / fire flares / etc while Thrusters and then Afterburners are engaged. We still need direction on incoming Heavy Fire and Missiles. We still need a Archwing that can throw a significant shield around their intended target if they insist on us doing stationary hover/helicopter style flying defense. They are still missing component damage and directional invulnerability on regular enemies. Still missing improvements to Archwing secondary wing and shoulder weapon slots, utility slots, sentinel companion backpack slots, mods, and abilities.

 

I must completly agree, also one more thing that they changed that I didnt realize at first until I watched on youtube video talking about changes in 17.5 is UI in archwing, they removed big upside down triangle we had around our crosshair, now hud is less cluttered and enemies are more visible.

[(PSN)HoennDPN]

There is a way to shoot st top speed

By pressing the descend button you do a slide, you can only slide like this while in boost, it also works for melee it makes you do a spin attack

[Culaio]

There is a way to shoot st top speed

By pressing the descend button you do a slide, you can only slide like this while in boost, it also works for melee it makes you do a spin attack

 

I didnt know that I will have to check it out, but still it doesnt look to be easy to use.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Culaio

[CanadianWolverine]

There is a way to shoot st top speed

By pressing the descend button you do a slide, you can only slide like this while in boost, it also works for melee it makes you do a spin attack

 

I know what you are referring to. Unfortunately, it doesn't allow changes in trajectory or to maintain your speed in flight. It has its uses as you point out for ranged and melee attacks but its unfortunately limited in freedom of movement that feels appropriate to space combat.

Edited October 7, 2015 by CanadianWolverine

[Culaio]

Like "CanadianWolverine" said in this thread we had time to  digest the new Archwing content, I think its time we talked more about changes to mechanics that happen, I will start with my opinion about some of the changes:

 

-radar - it does help a LOT in finding enemies but it only works great as long as  no one around you is using flashy powers or enemies around arent killed by you or your teammates, I was in situations where enemies were attacking me from distance but couldnt find their location since lock on red color was extremly hard to see with all the power or explosions around me. I am not sure how could this problem be fixed since even if DE changed color of lock on to something more visible, there is a chance we will be in team with someone that changed energy color in their archwing to exactly that color.

 

-afterburner - it does speed us up but in corridors of ships its not really that useful(too easy to crash into stuff) on the other hand it feels like its still too slow in any location you actually can use it, I know that if they speed it up further it would be even harder to control, which would mean  that there is even less locations where we could us it, but DE could make it so that the longer we use afterburner the faster we fly(it could start after we seconds of flying, if speeding up too soon was a problem), it would open up possibility of making HUGE space maps which wouldnt take eternity to fly around.

its kinda weird that DE made archwing interception maps smaller, since to me it looked that DE added afterburner to game to make traveling on big maps like that more enjoyable.

 

-exp/affinity sharing - I have no idea why it has such short range, it should cover whole map in archwing game mode, main reason why people fail(not exactly fail completly but lose half of rewards) archwing defense is because they abandoned one of shuttles to fly to other one to gain some exp/affinity since all enemies are there at the moment.

 

-warning system -  its pretty broken right now, since I was defending one of shuttles in archwing defense, there was no enemies near my or the shuttle that I was defending and yet I was getting warnings even though, all enemies were near the other shuttle which my teammates were defending, 

[CanadianWolverine]

I am pretty sure the radar indicators getting washed out can be fixed simply by thickening the borders around the indicator with either blank space or the color wheel opposite of red, green.

 

I am finding some fun in thrusters and afterburners lately, try mixing in crouch, spin attack, and shooting, then hitting the thrusters and afterburners again. Its sort of like a double jump and you can change your direction dramatically. Also, did you know you can thruster backwards? Intentional or not, Afterburners has opened up some interesting possibilities, that perhaps DE should be capitalizing on thusly - Why do our Archwing pilots not swing their feet around crouch jump off of objects/surfaces we currently crash into? It would look cool, cushion the impact, and make sense for ninjas that were just a second ago doing parkour off similar surfaces.

 

Not going to disagree about exp sharing or warning system - warning system especially is not really serving its purpose well, still no direction and distance of approaching missile on that warning, so not enough information to properly judge which direction is actually going to accomplish a "missile dodge" or the timing of that dodge. And its buggy too to boot? Poor showing on that one so far.

Edited October 18, 2015 by CanadianWolverine

[CrashLegacy14]

Oh looky another Archwing secondaries thread: 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/543308-new-spin-on-archwing-secondaries-launchers/

 

I am finding some fun in thrusters and afterburners lately, try mixing in crouch, spin attack, and shooting, then hitting the thrusters and afterburners again. Its sort of like a double jump and you can change your direction dramatically. Also, did you know you can thruster backwards? Intentional or not, Afterburners has opened up some interesting possibilities, that perhaps DE should be capitalizing on thusly - Why do our Archwing pilots not swing their feet around crouch jump off of objects/surfaces we currently crash into? It would look cool, cushion the impact, and make sense for ninjas that were just a second ago doing parkour off similar surfaces.

 

I've repeatedly pointed out that our movement while 'sprinting' is not tied to the direction our camera is facing. It was one of the reasons I gave for not adding 'fixed direction' weapons to the Archwing.

 

I agree with you that it'd be nice if our pilots weren't just having there while flying around. Using their feet to rebound off the environment would be a great addition.  

Edited October 19, 2015 by CrashLegacy14

[Culaio]

I am pretty sure the radar indicators getting washed out can be fixed simply by thickening the borders around the indicator with either blank space or the color wheel opposite of red, green.

 

I am finding some fun in thrusters and afterburners lately, try mixing in crouch, spin attack, and shooting, then hitting the thrusters and afterburners again. Its sort of like a double jump and you can change your direction dramatically. Also, did you know you can thruster backwards? Intentional or not, Afterburners has opened up some interesting possibilities, that perhaps DE should be capitalizing on thusly - Why do our Archwing pilots not swing their feet around crouch jump off of objects/surfaces we currently crash into? It would look cool, cushion the impact, and make sense for ninjas that were just a second ago doing parkour off similar surfaces.

 

Not going to disagree about exp sharing or warning system - warning system especially is not really serving its purpose well, still no direction and distance of approaching missile on that warning, so not enough information to properly judge which direction is actually going to accomplish a "missile dodge" or the timing of that dodge. And its buggy too to boot? Poor showing on that one so far.

 

Rebounding from surfaces with legs would be awesome change.

 

Oh looky another Archwing secondaries thread: 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/543308-new-spin-on-archwing-secondaries-launchers/

 

 

I've repeatedly pointed out that our movement while 'sprinting' is not tied to the direction our camera is facing. It was one of the reasons I gave for not adding 'fixed direction' weapons to the Archwing.

 

I agree with you that it'd be nice if our pilots weren't just having there while flying around. Using their feet to rebound off the environment would be a great addition.  

 

How did I miss it O_O, I will check it out.

 

Yeah I remember you saying that, I just want to say that I think you kinda misunderstood me back then, what I wanted is for us to keep the way we currently aim, since right now when you press forward you will move toward direction where you are aiming, what I wanted  back then was for us to be able to shot forward when "sprinting", since right now we always slow down to "hovering" speed when we are shooting, because of that it doesnt really feel like space combat, especially since we have more mobility on ground with our frames, If we had ability to shot when sprinting and also DE added full 3d movement we could have real dog fights in game(doing loops to get behind enemy and stuff), I think its pretty important since in update 17.5 DE changed how Shield Dargyn shield work now its shield cant be broken by shooting it, and only way to kill Shield Dargyn is to move to the side or behind it  to shot it or attack it with melee, because of lack of ability to fight while moving at high speed those enemies become pretty annoying.

Also main reason why I wanted our primary weapon to be attached to archwing during "sprinting" combat is because i would look extremly awkward for us to wield weapon during sprint, especially with how the guns are wielded by us, since when sprinting we are 'carried' under archwing in pose similar to pose we have when using Hang gliders and if we had to use to use our primary weapon in that pose we couldnt be able to see anything since our gun would be directly in front of our face since gun would have to be hold with both hands.(imagine superman flying with heavy machine/gattling gun in front of his face....)

 

Also CrashLegacy14 its great to see you back in this thread, I was kinda worried you abandoned thread, since it was a while since you last posted in it.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Culaio

[(PSN)Zashukitsune]

If nothing else, I LOVE the idea of secondary weapons being limited use/slow recharge heavy weapons.  Even if it was a one time per mission sorta weapon, I would love nothing more than a wave-motion gun with a blast as big as the tenno.  However anime that might be construed, it would also be fun, let's be honest.

 

I also just want a slightly larger radius on archwing loot vacuum, not enough to be a huge swath of the landscape like Carrier can be at times (though I love carrier, I personally believe that sometimes it makes it a tiny bit too easy to collect stuff, but that's neither here nor there) but enough so you don't have to scrounge through and bounce off the landscape indefinitely like a fly failing to leave through a window....just for a simple energy collection.

[Culaio]

If nothing else, I LOVE the idea of secondary weapons being limited use/slow recharge heavy weapons.  Even if it was a one time per mission sorta weapon, I would love nothing more than a wave-motion gun with a blast as big as the tenno.  However anime that might be construed, it would also be fun, let's be honest.

 

I also just want a slightly larger radius on archwing loot vacuum, not enough to be a huge swath of the landscape like Carrier can be at times (though I love carrier, I personally believe that sometimes it makes it a tiny bit too easy to collect stuff, but that's neither here nor there) but enough so you don't have to scrounge through and bounce off the landscape indefinitely like a fly failing to leave through a window....just for a simple energy collection.

 

I completly agree that we need larger radius of archwing loot vacuum, since right now if you want to gather loot in archwing game mode you must bring itzal, its ability cosmic crush is currrently only reliable way to gather loot, its especially important if you are farming for Tellurium.

 

Technically DE could add new companions for archwing, and give us archwing carrier but that would lead to samilar problem normal companions have right now, carrier is most used companion, so it would be better if they extended range of innate vacuum of archwings.

 

There is one thing that I disagree with you about:  carrier having too large range, as someone who had to play solo endless missions because of bad internet connection, I know from personal experiance that after 35 minute carrier range saves your life, it becomes necessity, since if you misjudge innate vaccum range, you could miss important loot, and going back for it could be a suicide, carrier vacuum saved me many times :).

[Culaio]

@CrashLegacy14

Based on info from newest devstream DE is finally focusing on stuff you wanted them to focus on: replacing enemies placeholder models with much better models with propare scale :)

 

EDIT: 666 post...if only I reached this post count on halloween XD

Edited November 2, 2015 by Culaio

[(XBOX)gnashermaster97]

idk if this was mentioned before, (there is too many replies to briefly look through) but what about the docking bay being a place to  research and swap out abilities for archwings?

 

like the archwings that we have now come with thier base abilities, and then after researching them in the docking bay one could swap out abilities that are compatable with the chosen archwing.  this means that you wouldn't have to go out and farm the newest archwing every time, you could just swap out some abilities on your archwing to suit your playstyle better.

 

Thoughts?

[CanadianWolverine]

"Swapping" abilities would come across as a pretty significant departure from the rest of Warframe that I would feel it wouldn't fit.

 

Swap out weapons, companions, and mods though...

 

I say, more weapon and drone slots, and get a Archwing Syndicate with appropriate ability enhancing mods. Its what we do for the ground game already, it would work for the Archwings too, maintain the thematic setting and allow the fine tuning of play style while still playing the "Collect Em All" thing that keeps DE in business and us in the game.

[Culaio]

Does anyone have any ideas how liset could support us in archwing game mode ? We see that DE wants liset to play bigger role in game which we see with lisets being able to give us support, so I think it should be able to support us in space

[(XBOX)gnashermaster97]

Does anyone have any ideas how liset could support us in archwing game mode ? We see that DE wants liset to play bigger role in game which we see with lisets being able to give us support, so I think it should be able to support us in space

maybe an interception mission ability where once per mission you can have your liset do a gun run dealing massive damage to enemies near a specific control point.

[Culaio]

 

maybe an interception mission ability where once per mission you can have your liset do a gun run dealing massive damage to enemies near a specific control point.

 

Thats pretty good idea, different type of ship(liset, mantis) could have different type of weapons(guns, lasers, missiles and so on)  but only if DE makes other ships more accessible since in current state getting them is  nightmare(found 3 rare contianers since update and in two of them there was mantis  bp, not parts >_> and third had nothing from mantis)

 

'CrashLegacy14' had interesting idea before, based on "vanguard overed booster" from armored core game:

A booster pack mounted to bottom/back of the harness of our archwing, it could be deployed for our use by our liset on command when we need boost to reach location quickly

 

Also liset could be used to depoly any specialized gear that is necessary for certain missions, like for example deploy excavators for archwing  excavation missions.

 

Also about your last idea I sadly forgot to answer:

 

idk if this was mentioned before, (there is too many replies to briefly look through) but what about the docking bay being a place to  research and swap out abilities for archwings?

 

like the archwings that we have now come with thier base abilities, and then after researching them in the docking bay one could swap out abilities that are compatable with the chosen archwing.  this means that you wouldn't have to go out and farm the newest archwing every time, you could just swap out some abilities on your archwing to suit your playstyle better.

 

Thoughts?

 

while I idea is pretty cool, I am pretty sure DE would never agree to this, since they want us to farm for it or be so frustrated with not getting archwing we want that we would buy it.

 

closest thing to your idea we could get is our "heavy weapon/special equipment" idea, which is special weapon/equipment that can be used only from time to time(takes a while to recharge), in a way it would work like equipable ability.

[Culaio]

It looks like we will be getting new archwing this year, info from devstream #66 overview:

 

• The Design Council is currently developing the new Archwing: support/healer type

 

Lets hope that DE finally focuses on making archwing better this year.

[CanadianWolverine]

It looks like we will be getting new archwing this year, info from devstream #66 overview:

 

 

 

Lets hope that DE finally focuses on making archwing better this year.

 

Agreed, I just got my last bit of Archwing stuff from the Balor Fomorian, the Imperator Vandal and now I find myself without a whole lot of reward motivation to play Archwing.

 

I settle for going in every once in a while and doing barrel rolls - I love Winging it :D