How To Build Kohm

[tinyranitar]

Just got it today. Can anyone experienced with it share your build?

 

[stoybot]

Detailed breakdown of Kohm's mechanics, and build suggestions here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/506390-hek-tigris-kohm-shotgun-showdown.

[tinyranitar]

Detailed breakdown of Kohm's mechanics, and build suggestions here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/506390-hek-tigris-kohm-shotgun-showdown.

Uhm... I don't have sweeping serration

[stoybot]

Uhm... I don't have sweeping serration

 

No need for it! Use a dual-stat mod in its place.

[Tali]

Uhm... I don't have sweeping serration

you dont have to, you could always just put another mod in that fits your needs :3

[tinyranitar]

No need for it! Use a dual-stat mod in its place.

I see... Thanks. According to your guide, the slower it fires the better?

[Omega-Shadowblade]

I see... Thanks. According to your guide, the slower it fires the better?

Yeah it can get really out of hand if you have too fast of a fire rate. Every shot draws more ammo so if you fire too many overkill shots you lose a lot more ammo than you think.

[stoybot]

I see... Thanks. According to your guide, the slower it fires the better?

 

Yup, it decreases the spread and improves the horrendous ammo consumption. Zoomed in, you can use it very effectively even at longer distances.

[Siekier]

Yup, it decreases the spread and improves the horrendous ammo consumption. Zoomed in, you can use it very effectively even at longer distances.

I have read your guide and I had to test it for myself in the simulacrum. You are right about fire rate affecting spread.

 

I've tested my Kohm with and without fire rate mods and the difference is very noticeable, here's the thing though (just my opinion incoming):

It feels so damn sluggish without any fire rate mods, even when spooled up. 

 

It's like a completely different weapon. More ammo efficient, but it feels like some very slow rifle. Time needed to kill also seemed to increase, even though I was hitting enemies with more pellets each shot.

 

For the record - this is my Kohm build: http://goo.gl/Qt6UuY

I upload it here just as an alternative. I'm sure there are better builds but this one works well too.

(though if anyone has ideas on how to improve it - feel free to share)

[stoybot]

I have read your guide and I had to test it for myself in the simulacrum. You are right about fire rate affecting spread.

 

I've tested my Kohm with and without fire rate mods and the difference is very noticeable, here's the thing though (just my opinion incoming):

It feels so damn sluggish without any fire rate mods, even when spooled up. 

 

It's like a completely different weapon. More ammo efficient, but it feels like some very slow rifle. Time needed to kill also seemed to increase, even though I was hitting enemies with more pellets each shot.

 

For the record - this is my Kohm build: http://goo.gl/Qt6UuY

I upload it here just as an alternative. I'm sure there are better builds but this one works well too.

(though if anyone has ideas on how to improve it - feel free to share)

 

Oh, I agree. I don't like the Kohm without any fire rate mods on, but it's the only way to make it viable late game, where its damage output is supposed to really shine. I don't think it gives it more of a shotgun feel, but the sluggishness is quite irritating. Clever use of Tainted Shell in your build by the way! I'll give it a shot.

 

EDIT: I tested it and really like the build. You are taking a significant hit when it comes to ammo economy, but the tight spread makes the effective ammo economy slightly better. It's a lot more enjoyable to play with a faster spool-up and a good spread. I wouldn't take the build to a very long endless mission, but then again, I wouldn't take the other Kohm builds either. I'll definitely be using your build when I need to chop up some enemies for my Nekros - which, sadly, is all the use I can find for Kohm these days. Thanks for sharing!

Edited August 23, 2015 by stoybot

[xenozid]

For the record - this is my Kohm build: http://goo.gl/Qt6UuY

 

this one is very good and exactly what i used for the most time. as of lately i've slotted one dualstat element instead of 90% because i realized how much of a status beast the kohm can be. and we all know (do we?) that in endgame status procs rule supreme.

[Siekier]

Huh, I didn't think my build would get such recognition. That's nice.

 

As for using dual stat mods - guess I'll have to try it out and see how it fares. Damage loss is probably going to be noticeable, but stacking corrosive and slash procs might even that out.

Interesting.

[Tyrian3k]

No need for it! Use a dual-stat mod in its place.

Why dual stat? Just use a regular elemental mod.

[stoybot]

Why dual stat? Just use a regular elemental mod.

 

The build he's referencing already uses 3 90% elemental damage mods in addition to Sweeping Serration. A 4-element combo has significant drawbacks in terms of damage and modding as well. With a 4th 90% elemental instead of a dual stat mod, he'll be losing 4,800 sustained DPS against cloned flesh in that build (viral/radiation as opposed to viral/heat), and won't gain any of the additional status chance. A corrosive/blast combo is also worse against armored units compared to corrosive/heat with additional status.

[tinyranitar]

The build he's referencing already uses 3 90% elemental damage mods in addition to Sweeping Serration. A 4-element combo has significant drawbacks in terms of damage and modding as well. With a 4th 90% elemental instead of a dual stat mod, he'll be losing 4,800 sustained DPS against cloned flesh in that build (viral/radiation as opposed to viral/heat), and won't gain any of the additional status chance. A corrosive/blast combo is also worse against armored units compared to corrosive/heat with additional status.

Well I run solo anyway so no 4x CP. Viral Rad is actually quite good.

[Tyrian3k]

The build he's referencing already uses 3 90% elemental damage mods in addition to Sweeping Serration. A 4-element combo has significant drawbacks in terms of damage and modding as well. With a 4th 90% elemental instead of a dual stat mod, he'll be losing 4,800 sustained DPS against cloned flesh in that build (viral/radiation as opposed to viral/heat), and won't gain any of the additional status chance. A corrosive/blast combo is also worse against armored units compared to corrosive/heat with additional status.

Whether you use a 4-element combo or not depends on what enemies you're facing and if they have armor or not. Corrosive/blast is worse? Depends on the faction. Ferrite armor protects against, so it's not what you want to use against Grineer, but against Infested it gives you an overall massive bonus against heavy infested units.

Also, using Sweeping Serration is an equally stupid idea if you want to fight armored enemies.

[stoybot]

Whether you use a 4-element combo or not depends on what enemies you're facing and if they have armor or not. Corrosive/blast is worse? Depends on the faction. Ferrite armor protects against, so it's not what you want to use against Grineer, but against Infested it gives you an overall massive bonus against heavy infested units.

Also, using Sweeping Serration is an equally stupid idea if you want to fight armored enemies.

 

Did you read the post you quoted? I explicitly say that a corrosive/blast combo is bad against armored units and made no reference to infested... The reason why a 3-element combo tends to do better is because the dual-stat mod can boost the primary damage type and receive the bonus damage, while giving you additional status. Magnetic/gas is bad againt corpus, corrosive/blast is bad against ferrite, and viral/radiation is bad against flesh/cloned flesh. And those are the 3 scenarios I generally mod for (void/Triton). Against infested, corrosive/blast will, indeed, give you the most bang for your buck. Modding against alloy, I'd pick radiation/viral only because of how powerful the viral proc is - radiation/toxin with a dual stat mod will actually give you more damage against alloy, but the viral proc is just too good.

 

Also if you bothered looking at it, the Kohm build he's talking about is modded for viral/heat and is intended to be run with 4 corrosive projections. Sweeping Serration, in that scenario, is not a stupid idea. However, as was pointed out in the linked thread, a dual-stat mod like Frigid Blast will actually increase your DPS against cloned flesh more than the 120% additional slash damage (the damage against flesh is identical but you get more status with the dual-stat mod). I've since replaced Sweeping Serration with Frigid Blast in that particular build, but left it as it is in the thread because it's what I used for testing.

[Tyrian3k]

Did you read the post you quoted? I explicitly say that a corrosive/blast combo is bad against armored units and made no reference to infested... The reason why a 3-element combo tends to do better is because the dual-stat mod can boost the primary damage type and receive the bonus damage, while giving you additional status. Magnetic/gas is bad againt corpus, corrosive/blast is bad against ferrite, and viral/radiation is bad against flesh/cloned flesh. And those are the 3 scenarios I generally mod for (void/Triton). Against infested, corrosive/blast will, indeed, give you the most bang for your buck. Modding against alloy, I'd pick radiation/viral only because of how powerful the viral proc is - radiation/toxin with a dual stat mod will actually give you more damage against alloy, but the viral proc is just too good.

 

Also if you bothered looking at it, the Kohm build he's talking about is modded for viral/heat and is intended to be run with 4 corrosive projections. Sweeping Serration, in that scenario, is not a stupid idea. However, as was pointed out in the linked thread, a dual-stat mod like Frigid Blast will actually increase your DPS against cloned flesh more than the 120% additional slash damage (the damage against flesh is identical but you get more status with the dual-stat mod). I've since replaced Sweeping Serration with Frigid Blast in that particular build, but left it as it is in the thread because it's what I used for testing.

"Did you read the post you quoted?" he says after clearly not having read the post he quoted. Good job.

I never said anything about grineer either and you just bring them up anyways.

"But that build was clearly meant for Grineer."

Inherently bad since you're just giving a player who wants a build one that works only against one faction. For all I know he'd go and blindly use that build against every faction.

And why is alloy not a common scenario for you? It's pretty much the dominant armor type in the void and is extremely present in any Grineer mission where enemies are at least level 15.

But let's just make it simple for him:

Element combinations for shotguns:

Grineer: Radiation/Viral

Grineer with 4 Corrosive Projection auras: Heat/Viral

Infested: Corrosive/Blast

Corpus: Magnetic/Heat

Void takes the same ones as Grineer.

[stoybot]

"Did you read the post you quoted?" he says after clearly not having read the post he quoted. Good job.

I never said anything about grineer either and you just bring them up anyways.

"But that build was clearly meant for Grineer."

Inherently bad since you're just giving a player who wants a build one that works only against one faction. For all I know he'd go and blindly use that build against every faction.

And why is alloy not a common scenario for you? It's pretty much the dominant armor type in the void and is extremely present in any Grineer mission where enemies are at least level 15.

But let's just make it simple for him:

Element combinations for shotguns:

Grineer: Radiation/Viral

Grineer with 4 Corrosive Projection auras: Heat/Viral

Infested: Corrosive/Blast

Corpus: Magnetic/Heat

Void takes the same ones as Grineer.

 

I can't possibly list all the faction-specific damage types (and how you mod for them) when people ask for builds. Don't have the time and I assume people have a general knowledge of how elements work. Alloy may be the dominant armor in the void, but corrosive procs strip armor regardless of its type, which is why they're better against armored units - 25% less armor with just 1 proc increases your damage significantly even against alloy. Corrosive also helps with the biggest bullet sponge in the void - the heavy gunner. If you're using slow-firing weapons that don't have a lot of status, I suppose radiation/viral would be better.

[Tyrian3k]

I can't possibly list all the faction-specific damage types (and how you mod for them) when people ask for builds. Don't have the time and I assume people have a general knowledge of how elements work. Alloy may be the dominant armor in the void, but corrosive procs strip armor regardless of its type, which is why they're better against armored units - 25% less armor with just 1 proc increases your damage significantly even against alloy. Corrosive also helps with the biggest bullet sponge in the void - the heavy gunner. If you're using slow-firing weapons that don't have a lot of status, I suppose radiation/viral would be better.

 

Enemies only last for enough procs if you're very far in an endless mission in the void already and for that kind of thing you're not going without 4x CP anyways. Also you ignore the Viral proc entirely, which halves their HP. Running Corrosive/Cold would be better, but for that you'd have to take off Blaze, which is never a good idea on any shotgun against any faction.

 

Bombards are just as much bullet sponges as Gunners and with only heat giving you a bonus against them, they'll die slower than heavy gunners would with Radiation/Viral.

 

 

It's not that much work to give a mod selection for all 4 factions:

 

Builds:

 

Mods that never leave your weapon: (Primed) Point Blank, Hell's Chamber, Blaze, Shotgun Ammo Mutation

 

Grineer Build 1 (No CP): (Radiation+Viral)

Mods added: Charged Shell, Incendiary Coat, Chilling Grasp, Contagious Spread

 

Grineer Build 2 (4*CP): (Heat+Viral)

Mods added: Frigid Blast, Chilling Grasp, Contagious Spread, Toxic Barrage

Notes: If you don't have Frigid Blast, use Incendiary Coat or, outside of the void, Cleanse Grineer.

 

Infested Build: (Corrosive+Blast)

Mods added: Charged Shell, Contagious Spread, Chilling Grasp, Incendiary Coat

 

Corpus Build: (Magnetic+Heat)

Mods added: Charged Shell, Chilling Grasp, Frigid Blast, Shell Shock

Notes: If you don't have Shell Shock or Frigid Blast, use Cleanse Corpus. If you miss both, add Incendiary Coat.

 

 

One can argue if they are the ultimate builds for their respective factions, but they will definitely work very well in each case.

[tinyranitar]

Small question, is the Kohmak as strong as the Kohm on the secondary side? Should I use them together or save for a more ammo efficient weapon?

[rudman88]

i would not recommend it.

 

It is better have 2 distinct type,

 

some weapon shared the ammo. It will backfire when you only need 1 type of ammo

[stoybot]

Small question, is the Kohmak as strong as the Kohm on the secondary side? Should I use them together or save for a more ammo efficient weapon?

 

It doesn't have the same damage output as the Kohm, but amongst the secondaries, it's second only to the Brakk in sustained DPS (if you're going for headshots, there are better weapons out there). The innate punch-through and high spread make it ideal against crowds, and the faster spool-up makes it a lot more fun to use. It's one of my more used secondaries and my go-to weapon for Triton. Even with Gunslinger equipped, the Primed Pistol Mutation will keep you topped up on ammo. I've yet to run out of ammo on this thing, even though its ammo economy isn't great. Personally, between the Kohm and the Kohmak, I'd pick the latter.

 

If you like shotgun-type weapons and shooting in the general direction of enemies, I think you might enjoy the Kohmak.

[stoybot]

i would not recommend it.

 

It is better have 2 distinct type,

 

some weapon shared the ammo. It will backfire when you only need 1 type of ammo

 

Kohm and Kohmak don't share ammo.

[tinyranitar]

It doesn't have the same damage output as the Kohm, but amongst the secondaries, it's second only to the Brakk in sustained DPS (if you're going for headshots, there are better weapons out there). The innate punch-through and high spread make it ideal against crowds, and the faster spool-up makes it a lot more fun to use. It's one of my more used secondaries and my go-to weapon for Triton. Even with Gunslinger equipped, the Primed Pistol Mutation will keep you topped up on ammo. I've yet to run out of ammo on this thing, even though its ammo economy isn't great. Personally, between the Kohm and the Kohmak, I'd pick the latter.

 

If you like shotgun-type weapons and shooting in the general direction of enemies, I think you might enjoy the Kohmak.

Thank you very much for your tips! Now back to crafting forma lol.

 

P/s: Can you show me an example build for Kohmak?

Edited August 24, 2015 by tinyranitar

[xenozid]

example build for Kohmak?

 

http://goo.gl/tpioZ5 here's what i use, thankfully it shares its big brothers innate punch through and has higher firerate so  no need for pure firerate mods.