A Farm Farm Here, A Farm Farm There...

[Hayden11121]

Here a farm and there a farm everywhere a farm farm.

 

I have tried to get the banshee helm, I've given up, running Xini more times then I care to count. One time I saw something that said "Banshee" I got so happy until it was a chasis. -.-

I seem to have gotten lucky in the void, however. Ironically, the only thing that stopped me from building the reaper prime was a handle, I had around 5 blades and BPs.

 

So, as I was playing the Void, I realized "Man this is really just the same game, but it looks nicer"

And boom, that end I got a handle and I needed 5 orokin cells.

 

So, I go to Saturn and solo farm the general there for some orokin cells. I got my 10 cells needed, *yes 10* and started building the weapon.

 

I needed to level up charge damage to it's last level, so I go off to farm for a couple mods to fuse.

 

So here I am, thinking about what to do next. Everything that came to mind was farm for something. Farm for chance of void keys, farm in the void while freeloading off of someone else, farm for morphics, farm for ferrite for my glaive *5k ferrite needed* and I realized something even worse.

 

The RNG system never got reworked, or even touched for that matter.
I do believe part of the problem is the RNG system wasn't reworked.

 

 

DE, I know you've thought about the Void Key system a while, but there are kinks to the game you already have. There is nothing left to do. Maybe if you made a survival game mode where enemies target players instead of a cryopod, or something to spice the game up. Just give us something to do instead of repetitively running the same missions.

 

EDIT: To prove a point I am going to highlight every time I use the word Farm

Edited May 26, 2013 by Hayden11121

[Zhoyzu]

i kinda agree with you although part of the problem here are the player with a short attention span who cannot farm or set challenges in the game for themselves. Why not say get some friends and try to get as far in a defence mission as possible and challenge others to beat it?

[Hayden11121]

i kinda agree with you although part of the problem here are the player with a short attention span who cannot farm or set challenges in the game for themselves. Why not say get some friends and try to get as far in a defence mission as possible and challenge others to beat it?

Why do that when the RNG generator gives Hellfire uncommon mod as a rank 55-80 *proven* reward.

[sGs.salp]

Why do that when the RNG generator gives Hellfire uncommon mod as a rank 55-80 *proven* reward.

Cause maybe sitting on a pod for more then 2 hours isn't about the exit reward? ;-)

If it's rewards you want, there are faster ways to get those.

[Feldgrep]

Survival. Yes.

[Drusus]

I still think the solution is going to be part of addressing the Alert system as I outlined here:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/50207-alert-improvements-and-value-proposition-issues/

 

The seed rates for Forma and other critical elements are not where they are supposed to be and DE themselves have stated there are inclusions into the alert system they wanted there. 

 

While I don't agree with your tone overall hayden (I don't see it anywhere near as bleakly), I concur to being surprised that these changes (or those like them) were not included in Update 8 to address the materials choke.

 

I cannot help but wonder if the shortfall is entirely deliberate to deal with the stockpiles that DE saw in play in order to drive them to be depleted as the first part of the Alpha Dojo deployment while they balance out the values.  Forma, in particular though, is a puzzling implementation (no pun to the Forma shape intended, though there is some humour there perhaps).

 

I think it's a cheap shot though to take aim at people expecting additional changes when calling it an Alpha deployment, in a Beta environment, by definition suggests more changes are probably pending.

 

I'd have liked them to have been more focused on these core items but it's always a trade off in development cycles.  Just to get this out the door clearly was a major resource allocation that exceeded their scheduled plan, as we know from the delays and the numerous hotfixes.

 

I'll wait to see what's said in the live stream and the timelines for additional fixes before I hit any panic buttons.  I do, however, understand the point you are making and cannot fault the analysis that there is a resource issue (having said the same myself).

[Hayden11121]

I still think the solution is going to be part of addressing the Alert system as I outlined here:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/50207-alert-improvements-and-value-proposition-issues/

 

The seed rates for Forma and other critical elements are not where they are supposed to be and DE themselves have stated there are inclusions into the alert system they wanted there. 

 

While I don't agree with your tone overall hayden (I don't see it anywhere near as bleakly), I concur to being surprised that these changes (or those like them) were not included in Update 8 to address the materials choke.

 

I cannot help but wonder if the shortfall is entirely deliberate to deal with the stockpiles that DE saw in play in order to drive them to be depleted as the first part of the Alpha Dojo deployment while they balance out the values.  Forma, in particular though, is a puzzling implementation (no pun to the Forma shape intended, though there is some humour there perhaps).

 

I think it's a cheap shot though to take aim at people expecting additional changes when calling it an Alpha deployment, in a Beta environment, by definition suggests more changes are probably pending.

 

I'd have liked them to have been more focused on these core items but it's always a trade off in development cycles.  Just to get this out the door clearly was a major resource allocation that exceeded their scheduled plan, as we know from the delays and the numerous hotfixes.

 

I'll wait to see what's said in the live stream and the timelines for additional fixes before I hit any panic buttons.  I do, however, understand the point you are making and cannot fault the analysis that there is a resource issue (having said the same myself).

What time is the livestream and where can I find it? I'd like to watch it. And in U6 gameplay was changed. U7 gameplay was changed. While we have a lot of stuff added in U8, it's nothing to the gameplay. Just more farming.

[Drusus]

What time is the livestream and where can I find it? I'd like to watch it. And in U6 gameplay was changed. U7 gameplay was changed. While we have a lot of stuff added in U8, it's nothing to the gameplay. Just more farming.

Livestream is May 29th i think, there is a post on it in the announcements folder.

This post though is factually inaccurate mate.

New Enemies added (those I personally have seen, more may be pending):

Grineer Scorpion

Grineer Scorcher

Corpus Tech (this guy's a lot more to deal with than you might think)

Other play related features:

Vauban (technically, part of U8)

Frost Prime

Numerous weapons, each offering new gameplay experiences

Entire customization component of the Forma system (this IS gameplay enhancing, albeit linked to materials acquisition; tailoring gameplay options is STILL content addition for gameplay, by definition)

Stalker now a reward granting target (whole new reason to defeat his sneaky butt)

The entirety of void missions which have considerably mixed troop levels and compbinations, encouraging more diverse, less targeted strategies and team play

I can appreciate if you are not liking the options of content offered, but you are being simply non-factual in the statement above.

There was a considerable amount of gameplay related content added, including buffs/nerfs to various things which also are gameplay centric.

Not liking the overarching pattern is separate issue I can sympathize with but your comment quoted is just not correct.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Drusus

[Aretak]

Posted this elsewhere:

 

RNG especially should only be implemented as a way of fairness, ie equal chance for everyone for everything. Seeing as you've either a)gotten lucky with void keys or b) already supported the game and bought key with plat all rewards in the void shouldn't be pure RNG. You should at the very least gain an increased chance for items you do not have, maybe with items strictly assigned to the tiers of mission and upon obtaining them all a different reward such as a guaranteed rare (non ability) mod awarded.

[Belpharon]

i kinda agree with you although part of the problem here are the player with a short attention span who cannot farm or set challenges in the game for themselves. Why not say get some friends and try to get as far in a defence mission as possible and challenge others to beat it?

 

The problem is that the challenges in the game shouldn't be farming for X hours a day to Aquire Y resources/BPs/Keys. 

 

Here a farm and there a farm everywhere a farm farm.

 

I have tried to get the banshee helm, I've given up, running Xini more times then I care to count. One time I saw something that said "Banshee" I got so happy until it was a chasis. -.-

I seem to have gotten lucky in the void, however. Ironically, the only thing that stopped me from building the reaper prime was a handle, I had around 5 blades and BPs.

 

So, as I was playing the Void, I realized "Man this is really just the same game, but it looks nicer"

And boom, that end I got a handle and I needed 5 orokin cells.

 

So, I go to Saturn and solo farm the general there for some orokin cells. I got my 10 cells needed, *yes 10* and started building the weapon.

 

I needed to level up charge damage to it's last level, so I go off to farm for a couple mods to fuse.

 

So here I am, thinking about what to do next. Everything that came to mind was farm for something. Farm for chance of void keys, farm in the void while freeloading off of someone else, farm for morphics, farm for ferrite for my glaive *5k ferrite needed* and I realized something even worse.

 

The RNG system never got reworked, or even touched for that matter.

I do believe part of the problem is the RNG system wasn't reworked.

 

 

DE, I know you've thought about the Void Key system a while, but there are kinks to the game you already have. There is nothing left to do. Maybe if you made a survival game mode where enemies target players instead of a cryopod, or something to spice the game up. Just give us something to do instead of repetitively running the same missions.

 

I am with you 100% on this post.  Every day when I log and think about what I want to do it goes along the lines of "I need Morphics I should go farm them" or " Hmm maybe I will hit up defense to try to get a few more Void Keys" or "Let me see if I can find someone to let me join void runs so I can farm Frost Prime up".  At the day the only thing there is to do is farm. 

 

What the game needs are quests and raids or perhaps story/lore related activities or to put it bluntly.....A long term purpose for each player.

[Fjarri]

Doing bad math, the Forma are .5-1% probability of being acquired with no plat spent and the key being found by the player. It rises to 2-4% if you consider that 1 of 4 people in a group was such a player and they were nice enough to bring 3 others and all 4 got the bp/item.

I personally believe that you cannot reasonably farm that considering the costs to do so, and this is the supposed end game item that makes everything better. The older "other" drops that we farm may have a much higher drop rate, but they have been so static and it's always farm this farm that in huge quantities and the update slurps on them more.

" I command the Tenno to...ahem..go farm this patch of land... for the Lotus and the resistance!" I can see her saying something along those lines.

They really do need more mission types, like a running survival or maybe jet packs or actual ships that we can fly or just something interesting! I really don't wanna call it Farmframe or Warfarm.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Fjarri

[Avenwing]

Warfarm. Grindframe.

[TheChaffeemancer]

Livestream is May 29th i think, there is a post on it in the announcements folder.

This post though is factually inaccurate mate.

New Enemies added (those I personally have seen, more may be pending):

Grineer Scorpion

Grineer Scorcher

Corpus Tech (this guy's a lot more to deal with than you might think)

Other play related features:

Vauban (technically, part of U8)

Frost Prime

Numerous weapons, each offering new gameplay experiences

Entire customization component of the Forma system (this IS gameplay enhancing, albeit linked to materials acquisition; tailoring gameplay options is STILL content addition for gameplay, by definition)

Stalker now a reward granting target (whole new reason to defeat his sneaky butt)

The entirety of void missions which have considerably mixed troop levels and compbinations, encouraging more diverse, less targeted strategies and team play

I can appreciate if you are not liking the options of content offered, but you are being simply non-factual in the statement above.

There was a considerable amount of gameplay related content added, including buffs/nerfs to various things which also are gameplay centric.

Not liking the overarching pattern is separate issue I can sympathize with but your comment quoted is just not correct.

 

Except, at least to some degree, they are right.

 

Grineer Scorpion-Basically a squishy ancient with no special abilities

Grineer Scorcher-Shotgunner without the ability to stop shield regen at long ranger

Corpus Tech-Faster laser gun and occasional lens-flare drone.

Vauban- Tied to alert system, free players still have not gotten it yet.

Frost Prime- Grind void missions in hope of getting a Frost with slightly different stats/polarities

"Numerous weapons"

Only 6 are available in the market

Machete- Skana reskin

Dual Cleavers-Zorens with less Attack Speed and more damage per hit

Ether Sword- Yet another sword, ho-hum

Dual Broncos- It's two broncos

Vulkar (or however it's spelled)- It's hard to count this as an addition as it allegedly fills the same niche as the snipetron, which was removed. So it's more changing then adding anything.

Kunai- Seems pretty OP, but the only really new weapon of the bunch.

Dethcube- This is new

Stalker Kit- Now we need to grind someone who randomly pops up that we have little control over other then kill a bunch of bosses.

 

Forma- Tied to Alerts/RNG and Grinding maps to get the keys to grind the void, and it doesn't really add any new element beyond having to regrind the weapon to get it to 30.

Orokin Tile set- New place to grind that we have to grind to get access too

Grineer ship is neat.

[Hayden11121]

Livestream is May 29th i think, there is a post on it in the announcements folder.

This post though is factually inaccurate mate.

New Enemies added (those I personally have seen, more may be pending):

Grineer Scorpion

Grineer Scorcher

Corpus Tech (this guy's a lot more to deal with than you might think)

Other play related features:

Vauban (technically, part of U8)

Frost Prime

Numerous weapons, each offering new gameplay experiences

Entire customization component of the Forma system (this IS gameplay enhancing, albeit linked to materials acquisition; tailoring gameplay options is STILL content addition for gameplay, by definition)

Stalker now a reward granting target (whole new reason to defeat his sneaky butt)

The entirety of void missions which have considerably mixed troop levels and compbinations, encouraging more diverse, less targeted strategies and team play

I can appreciate if you are not liking the options of content offered, but you are being simply non-factual in the statement above.

There was a considerable amount of gameplay related content added, including buffs/nerfs to various things which also are gameplay centric.

Not liking the overarching pattern is separate issue I can sympathize with but your comment quoted is just not correct.

So. Let me say it as I've seen in another forum.

 

Numerous Weapons to farm for. Including ones in a clan you have to farm to get too.

Now people can farm the stalker, which used to be menacing but is now just another boss.

Time to try and farm the BP of Vauban by doing each ? alert.

Time to farm Formas which drop better in the void. So go farm the void and farm void keys.

Your last statement makes no sense. The Void is just a bunch of reskinned metallic enemies given little thought. The only new model was the version of shield osprey. There was no different gameplay strategies. It's still run and gun everything in sight in the allotted amount of time because you want to farm another one after.

Let's go farm the Frost Prime BP in the void.

I never said the game wasn't still being added too. This is beta. But fix one bug before you make another. Otherwise the bugs breed and you guys know if you've ever stepped on a mother spider that what comes out isn't good, not good at all.

And three new enemies, the tech guy is bigger, wow! Amazing! Easier to shoot when I'm farming.

A new scorpion boss to pull me away from the boss I'm farming.

And a guy that can't catch me because I am farming a speedrun and I won't let him get in range.

All of that, that is all REALLY gameplay changing, huh?

Oh yea. And "Customization of blah blah blah" is bullS#&$. Saying bigger words does not make you smarter.

Oh? It does? Supercalafragalisticexpialadoshus.

 

 

 

 

 

Come at me bro.

EDIT: Well this is awkward. I meant to show a picture of captain vor doing his little "well come here then" wave at the cinematic.

Lol...

Edited May 26, 2013 by Hayden11121

[Drusus]

So. Let me say it as I've seen in another forum.

 

Numerous Weapons to farm for. Including ones in a clan you have to farm to get too.

Now people can farm the stalker, which used to be menacing but is now just another boss.

Time to try and farm the BP of Vauban by doing each ? alert.

Time to farm Formas which drop better in the void. So go farm the void and farm void keys.

Your last statement makes no sense. The Void is just a bunch of reskinned metallic enemies given little thought. The only new model was the version of shield osprey. There was no different gameplay strategies. It's still run and gun everything in sight in the allotted amount of time because you want to farm another one after.

Let's go farm the Frost Prime BP in the void.

I never said the game wasn't still being added too. This is beta. But fix one bug before you make another. Otherwise the bugs breed and you guys know if you've ever stepped on a mother spider that what comes out isn't good, not good at all.

And three new enemies, the tech guy is bigger, wow! Amazing! Easier to shoot when I'm farming.

A new scorpion boss to pull me away from the boss I'm farming.

And a guy that can't catch me because I am farming a speedrun and I won't let him get in range.

All of that, that is all REALLY gameplay changing, huh?

Oh yea. And "Customization of blah blah blah" is bullS#&$. Saying bigger words does not make you smarter.

Oh? It does? Supercalafragalisticexpialadoshus.

  

 

Come at me bro.

EDIT: Well this is awkward. I meant to show a picture of captain vor doing his little "well come here then" wave at the cinematic.

Lol...

Wow, hostile much mate?

You can re-context it all you want, but you're narrowing your gameplay definition to suit your argument just as much as you suggest I'm expanding mine.

I maintain your comment is factually incorrect.

New gameplay content was indeed added to gameplay as new enemies or new combinations of enemies is new gameplay. Is it necessarily game changing? No, clearly not, but that wasn't what you said.

We can disagree on the quality or value of it til we are both blue in the face, but you are still factually incorrect no matter how you slice this.

And customization of options is not BS, no matter how much you may not care about it personally. The whole game premise is based on combinations of gear and warframes and mods. Any addition to these areas is an expansion of gameplay and choice for the player. Again, that's factual, not opinion, as it is an expansion of options previously not available. And also again, I can understand if you personally don't find that to be what you wanted but you're still just wrong in saying no gameplay was added.

No gameplay you wanted was added? Understood and I sympathize.

Chill out mate. No need for the hostility.

Chaffemancer, I understand the counter arguments you make in same vein. Is it necessarily compelling gameplay? Debatable and certainly subject to personal preferences. Some would argue the dojo meeting spaces are 'gameplay' too, but I personally wouldn't as I'm a tough sell on 'housing' options generally.

Whether I like the quality of the implementation or not or the relative quantity, I still can't say they added 'no new content' as factually correct. It just isn't.

Whether we're satisfied with the chosen content? Totally different question and I completely get why many are not happy.

Edit: on the whole I'm actually on your side here mate. I think you have a valid point, I'm just trying to be fair minded in it.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Drusus

[Hayden11121]

Wow, hostile much mate?

You can re-context it all you want, but you're narrowing your gameplay definition to suit your argument just as much as you suggest I'm expanding mine.

I maintain your comment is factually incorrect.

New gameplay content was indeed added to gameplay as new enemies or new combinations of enemies is new gameplay. Is it necessarily game changing? No, clearly not, but that wasn't what you said.

We can disagree on the quality or value of it til we are both blue in the face, but you are still factually incorrect no matter how you slice this.

And customization of options is not BS, no matter how much you may not care about it personally. The whole game premise is based on combinations of gear and warframes and mods. Any addition to these areas is an expansion of gameplay and choice for the player. Again, that's factual, not opinion, as it is an expansion of options previously not available. And also again, I can understand if you personally don't find that to be what you wanted but you're still just wrong in saying no gameplay was added.

No gameplay you wanted was added? Understood and I sympathize.

Chill out mate. No need for the hostility.

Chaffemancer, I understand the counter arguments you make in same vein. Is it necessarily compelling gameplay? Debatable and certainly subject to personal preferences. Some would argue the dojo meeting spaces are 'gameplay' too, but I personally wouldn't as I'm a tough sell on 'housing' options generally.

Whether I like the quality of the implementation or not or the relative quantity, I still can't say they added 'no new content' as factually correct. It just isn't.

Whether we're satisfied with the chosen content? Totally different question and I completely get why many are not happy.

Edit: on the whole I'm actually on your side here mate. I think you have a valid point, I'm just trying to be fair minded in it.

Being fair minded got no notice. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.  

Let's say everyone was "fair minded" then DE would release things and people would be "Eh I like it but whatever, I won't complain."

That got nobody anywhere. DE expects feedback, and we help by complaining.

How would DE know the rhino nerf was too much if nobody complained?

There are more reasons but Im about to farm another round of Kappa for multishot and the lobbies waiting on me.

[Esperiae]

Wait Wait wait, you came here knowing this was a PVE orientated game with crafting and you are Distraught over farming?

Edited May 26, 2013 by LeBlaue

[Naxza]

Being fair minded got no notice. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.  

Let's say everyone was "fair minded" then DE would release things and people would be "Eh I like it but whatever, I won't complain."

That got nobody anywhere. DE expects feedback, and we help by complaining.

How would DE know the rhino nerf was too much if nobody complained?

There are more reasons but Im about to farm another round of Kappa for multishot and the lobbies waiting on me.

 

There's a difference between feedback and hostile whining. Fair-minded isn't a stance on criticism, it's a stance on your approach.

 

That aside, I would agree that there is a lack of endgame content, and that I'd like to see something to mix it up a little. Enemies with more health, for example, something you NEED several players to focus on, or perhaps melee-only maps. 'Course, it'll be old content soon enough, but it'd be a breath of fresh air.

 

Of update eight, the thing I love the most is the new Grineer ship tileset. So visually pleasing, boxes everywhere, fun to run around. Mmmm.

[Fjarri]

I have a sneaking suspicion that we are going to lose our powerful potatoes to the invading marshmallows. I mean heck, they look like they were carved out of one!

[Hayden11121]

Wait Wait wait, you came here knowing this was a PVE orientated game with crafting and you are Distraught over farming?

You need to get off of the forums and go open your eyes about how much stuff is needed to be farmed in Warframe.

[Belpharon]

Warfarm. Grindframe.

 

I like and it sums it up perfectly.

[Belpharon]

Wait Wait wait, you came here knowing this was a PVE orientated game with crafting and you are Distraught over farming?

 

The issue isn't that we have to farm/grind, it is the fact that this is all the game is about. Farm this, grind that, farm this some more, grind a bit here.  That's it.

[Hafilgar]

I would totally support implementation of self-survivability missions

 

DE I want zombies in your new shiny shopping malls

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

I love how they made mutagenic samples have such an ungodly low drop rate compared to the other two. And then only stuck them on two planets.