Some concerns

[DirtyIrishman]

So far I am really enjoying the game for the most part, there are a lot of cool ideas here and I'm loving the direction it is going in so far. I do however have some concerns that I feel could be to the detriment of this games longevity.

First of all, and I'm certain this has been discussed in length elsewhere so I'll only mention it briefly, the cost of platinum is far too high when compared to the cost of items. I honestly don't feel that dumping like $40 on platinum just so I can take a short cut to getting a new frame is a worthy investment.

With that in mind, and on the topic of obtaining new frames, the amount of time it takes to craft ANYTHING in this game is absurd to say the least, and the fact that you need blueprints for everything, and then blueprints to make parts for other blueprints (see Warframes) which don't just require a rare parts that can take a few hours to obtain, but then also require quite a bit of money and a huge chunk of time. It all gets a bit convoluted. Obtaining new equipment should not be as big a hassle as it is, and don't mistake this for me saying it's easy. To build a new Warframe first you need 35,000 credits to buy the blueprint, which has a construction time of 3 days and a manufacturing cost of 25,000 credits. That's 60,000 credits so far. Once you have that, you find out it requires four parts, not to bad. But come to find out three of the four parts aren't drops exactly, they're blueprints as well. So you spend time farming for the blueprints for your particular frame which can take anywhere from a few hours to a few days depending on your luck. Now you have all the blueprints it's time to start making them, however for each one it's another 12 hrs to make and an additional 15,000 credits. The sum total for making a Warframe is 105,000 credits and about half a week of time, that's completely ridiculous. I feel the crafting system in the game needs to be drastically overhauled and retooled into something completely different or else people will get bored real fast.

My next concern is the lack of environments, and while the maps appear to be somewhat randomized there comes a point after playing for a few hours where you start recognizing parts of the map because you've seen them recycled over and over again in various parts of other maps. Having a little more randomization wouldn't hurt, but more so than just randomization I'd say different types of maps would do this game a great service. Allowing us to do missions planetside in urban or wilderness environments, different things like would make this game a lot more playable for a longer period of time.

At this point the game is fun, but I've only just started playing it. There are still quite a few bugs that need to be worked out, but from what I can tell it's one of those games people will play for a month or two and then move on to something else. More missions, different types of missions and environments, and a better crafting system will make this game last longer.

[UkyoSonoda]

I believe the dev team is working on new tile sets to vary the variety.

IMO the credit cost and time to build things in the foundry including warframes is fine. You have a burn plat get instantly option for the things in the market that are sold as blueprints. Looking at warframes in general if you just cant wait its really being discounted I think if you pay out of your wallet with plat When you view it as building all 3 pieces then the frame instantly without spending credits or time in game. Plus buying it with plat I think gives it to you already supercharged. Honestly though the credit complaint to me is moot. You get credits easy and quick enough if you play the game. You spend time farming blue print pieces and the mats to craft it. Ok. You click a button to build the item after getting the mats and pick it up later. No requirement to sit there and stare at the screen or keep the game running so it can craft. You can still play the game normally, goto work or school, go out with friends, etc...

As it is now I need something else to spend 500K+ credits on.

[Dr3dd]

Half of the people that come her don't have a grasp of what a beta is

[UkyoSonoda]

Half of the people that come her don't have a grasp of what a beta is

Nah most have an idea of what a beta is. The part that has the issue is they come here expecting late stage open beta content when this is still an early closed beta.

[nephalem87]

I agree. The cost of Platinum is absurd...I mean you are 1 pricing Frames pretty damn hihg ( which I can understand). Weapons you may be able to get a couple but your looking at at least an average of $15 a weapn. Farming for items is largely a hassle as the compnents rarely drop for me. If I have real cash I wouldn't bother buying Blueprints as the platinum cost for that is high too.

[nephalem87]

I love this game and want it to improve but I won't pay $40 for platinume and only really be able to get a couple things...

[Dr3dd]

then get them for free?

[UkyoSonoda]

The choice really is be patient or pay money out of pocket on plat. If the choice was pay plat get it instantly or use in game credits get mats wait 30 minutes almost no one would ever pay plat for anything gear wise.

[DirtyIrishman]

If the Warframes come already unlocked if you pay plat then that would be the insentive to spend real money, more so than skipping the 4 day wait to build a new frame. The issue arises when you have someone who has already ranked up one frank completely and now they want to try something different, they either play for the four day period on their old frame and just mess around, level other stuff, gain money, whatever while they wait, or they just logout and don't login again for half a week until the new frame is built. Even if it were a few hours that would be better than a few days, I shouldn't need to wait for a week to get something I already worked to get all the parts for. The downfall will be people seeing this as having to wait around for something they already put all the work into getting.

It would be like if you played any other MMO to get better gear, would you put all the work into doing dungeons and stuff if you weren't going to get the reward until the following week? This game currently has no real feel of reward for doing anything except credits. You go through, grind missions, and hopefully you get a blueprint or something, but once you do you still have to wait at least a day before you can benefit from your "reward" and that just feels unrewarding to me.

As far as people commenting on not understanding what a beta is, or expecting late stage content, this isn't an expectation, this is feedback on how the system is now and what I believe in MY opinion should be done to make the game run more fluidly. Thus far though my biggest complaint is the foundary system and the cost of platinum. The game feels like if you don't have the patience of a saint or the wallet of a king you won't play for very long.

[bloodknighty]

ok folks lets talk here, as one of you said above this IS an early stage closed beta!!! things will be changed that means things will change report problems dont outright complain about everything! plat prices will either go down or the ammount it takes to buy items will go down either way we are still in early stage. my experience in other games closed betas is that once this is done they will do 1 of 2 things. 1) wipe all client data and force a restart on all of us, however this doesnt seem like the option they would go with as it would alienate all of us that have bought plat or put in day after day into find gamebreaking bugs and such. That leaves option 2) game opens to the public all bright and shiny and those of us that helped to get it to that stage get a little present. now if that is the way it goes i can only speculate what that present might be but i bet it'll be somthing nice, so be patient and just keep reporting those bugs :3 *thumbs up*

[Colkkanen]

Altho the prices are a tad too high, i gladly spent around 20 bucks in the game, and haven't spent half from it yet.

Why some might ask. Well, i do like to support a game, that i like.

And the rest.

Well it is in beta, as people have stated, so things will only go up from here on.

[UkyoSonoda]

Something to note also with plat prices in the market. According to a friend that bought a trinity frame and snipetron with plat they came already unlocked for pro/supercharge. (He did this when the only way to unlock was spending plat on Pro)

[bloodknighty]

Something to note also with plat prices in the market. According to a friend that bought a trinity frame and snipetron with plat they came already unlocked for pro/supercharge. (He did this when the only way to unlock was spending plat on Pro)

thats true i bought my ember with plat and she had her boosted thing the expand for rank

[DirtyIrishman]

The primary concern here wasn't platinum prices, that was just a point of contention, my main concerns were the time it takes to craft anything. This game seems to follow the philosphy of 'good things come to those who wait' and sadly that won't work in it's favor when the game goes live. Not everyone will be able to appreciate having to either spend real money or wait days for every upgrade they get, and I can only assume that as we move forward towards launch more frames, weapons, and other things will be added to the drop list which will also require crafting. My suggestion is reduce the craft times to hours, so if it takes 12 hours, make it take an hour, if it takes three days, make it take three hours. Myself as an example, my current frame is already supercharged and nearly maxed out and I haven't been able to find all the blueprints for my next frame yet, which means that by the time I do I'll have already likely capped my current frame giving me little to nothing to do until my next frame is done in half a week.

[Zakalwe]

Why would anyone buy platinum to rush a build if it only took 3 hours to make it?

I have 1k platinum from my founders purchase, and I'm not tempted at all to rush my builds or buy the frames direct. I'm famring and building the F2P way because, quite frankly, the time it takes to get stuff in this game is very short when you consider the content is absolutely free.

Unless you can come up with a new strategy that will keep people going back to the shop (and I don't believe cosmetic items can float a shop alone) while also allowing F2Pers faster access to gear, I don't see how it could ever happen.

And besides, as I said, I think it's pretty fair as it is.

EDIT: the only real problem I see with the store is seemingly the arbitrary cost of the highest priced frames. The starter frames are just as good if not better than these, so there';s no reason they sit at $20 a go.

All frames should be around $10 max, imo, and there should be deals to buy bundles every now and then for a discount. Simple strategy: price it less, more people will buy, more long term profit.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Zakalwe

[DirtyIrishman]

People who are going to spend platinum to rush an item will do it whether it takes 3 hours or 3 days, where as people who are going to get tired of waiting and quit the game are less likely to do so if it's 3 hours than if it were 3 days. An alternative to this could also be dropping completed items instead of blueprints for some things. The more items that get added into the game as drops from alerts or bosses, the worse this issue becomes.

My point was, and is that the reward for fighting a boss over and over again, or doing alerts in hopes of getting that piece of gear you've been looking for, should not be several days of downtime.

[UkyoSonoda]

Have you seen any social game on facebook with any aspect of player vs player? many of these have things that have players waiting weeks to build and still bring in a great deal of money from those that want to play and not wait. 3 days is quite fine IMO. Everything else I found only takes either 12hr or 24hr.

[10twenty4]

Honestly, this is my biggest gripe with the f2p model. Pretty much everything seems like it's tailored towards encouraging real life purchases, which I hate. Personally, I'd prefer to pay for the game itself, not access to new guns and armor.

Having to wait 3 days to craft an item is ridiculous. The time required ought to be the grinding for materials, not the crafting itself. I don't even see the point in having crafting time, since there isn't any trade (that I'm aware of, please correct me if there is; I'm new), so there isn't a possibility of say, bots flooding a market.

As far as environments, I believe they're working on those, that's merely a matter of time.

[UkyoSonoda]

However most cases the f2p model with micro transactions proves more profitable for companies than a subscription model for most online games. Some do this by allowing easy instant access to gear, others offer an extremely wide variety of cosmetic items to customize your appearance in game, Some offer a multitude of various boosts to exp gain, drop rates, speed boosters for craft/build times, etc...

Being early closed beta most of these aren't available yet and they have more pressing concerns for the game itself atm before expanding on and making changes to plat income generation in the game.

[TechnoFoxx1]

I agree. Farming 105,000 Credits just to get a Warframe, plus 1 week more or less of collecting resources and building it, which is so much of a pain. And also, I've been playing for Quite some time now and I've been seeing the same parts of some maps again and again, which somehow makes my gameplay experience dull little by little. They need better randomized maps, and lower item costs. :(

Edited January 20, 2013 by TechnoFoxx1

[DirtyIrishman]

I think comparing any mmo to social media games like castle age is kind of a poor example, especially when you consider that in most of those games you can spend $5 and get the benefits that would cost you $40 in this game. Pretty much what 10twenty4 said, and I've said before, the game would benefit from minimizing or removing the craft times. You can't trade gear, selling it earns you less than the blueprint itself cost, let alone the cost of making the item as well, so their is no profit in mass production. The only purpose it serves is milking a bit of money out of the players by forcing a needless mechanic on us. At the very least if I have to wait 3 days for a Warframe to finish, let me trade it or sell it to another player.

[UkyoSonoda]

A trade system could be in the works for all we know. However they have more pressing issues to concern themselves with atm. The comparison had nothing to do with how much currency you got per dollar on a social media game. it was to address your claim that waiting 3 days will make people quit at a rate that kills the game's player support which it wont. Lowering the build times will simply cost them more potential revenue when you figure that games many of these social media games have large numbers of players dumping 50-100 US dollars into it daily simply to skip all the wait times on everything they possibly can. Simply because some of these social media games have timers hitting close to a month for a single upgrade or build item.

Edited January 20, 2013 by UkyoSonoda

[Zakalwe]

I think comparing any mmo to social media games like castle age is kind of a poor example, especially when you consider that in most of those games you can spend $5 and get the benefits that would cost you $40 in this game. Pretty much what 10twenty4 said, and I've said before, the game would benefit from minimizing or removing the craft times. You can't trade gear, selling it earns you less than the blueprint itself cost, let alone the cost of making the item as well, so their is no profit in mass production. The only purpose it serves is milking a bit of money out of the players by forcing a needless mechanic on us. At the very least if I have to wait 3 days for a Warframe to finish, let me trade it or sell it to another player.

You guys need to stop focusing on the actual craft times. How long does it usualy take you to craft the equivelant of a new Frame in other MMO/Grind based games? Longer than Warframe, imo.

Add the time it takes to collect the raw mats, then add the build times together. It's still faster than obtaining new armour in Guid Wars 2, or a new perma weapon in Blacklight, etc..

Think of the final build stage as automated farming time. Removing the build time and they'd have to increase rarity of drops or the amount of mats required to build.

There needs to be an incentive to use platinum in place of crafting time.

[UkyoSonoda]

Or better yet crafting in FFXI some high level recipes required items that might drop 5% of the time from a monster that only spawns once every 3-5 real world days.

[DirtyIrishman]

Think of the final build stage as automated farming time. Removing the build time and they'd have to increase rarity of drops or the amount of mats required to build..

Honestly I'd rather have lower drop rates, at least when I'm farming mats I have an objective, something to do to keep me playing. When I'm just waiting around for the stuff I have in my craft queue that leaves me no incentive to actually stay logged in and play the game. I've already dropped about $20 on the game buying platinum, so it's not like I'm totally opposed to paying money and supporting the game, my issue is just waiting for something I already spent the time farming to get. Let's say I've been trying to get something like the Plasma Sword, rare chance to drop from an Alert, so I spend two weeks trying to get the alert that has it to appear, finally it does and I then spend the next day or so farming the materials, so I've already spent over two weeks to get this sword, not I have to wait 12 more hours before I can even use it after all the work I already went through to get it.