What I Had To Say To My Clan That I'm Not Happy About At All

[Temporary]

PSO and Diablo are different games than Warframe. Warframe's core mechanics are closest to Vindictus. But being a shooter, Warframe also still behaves like any other MMOFPS/TPS, aside from the PvP aspect.

 

Whilst I agree that it is nothing like Diablo did you ever actually play PSO? Game play wise it's almost a carbon copy; obviously there are sleight differences such as targeting, movement and spells but overall they are way to similar!

I loved PSO, managed to clock up well over 1000 hours on v2 alone not to mention the original and gamecube version.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Temporary

[Sikab]

 It is unreasonable to ask DE to hold the hand of smaller clans. By making it easier for you they devalue the work of thousands of players who are in larger clans.

 

 Your gameplay experience is not more important then a player in a large clan. If you choose to stick to a small group or not grow into a larger group that is fine, but you better not expect to be able to power through content like a clan who did decide to grow.

 

 This isn't even a new concept. Guilds/Clans are like this in nearly every game with very few exceptions.

You know what's unreasonable?

 

To ask social clans to break up and force them to join clans with 1800++ members

[Ashmomo]

What about a vassal/allegiance system?

Smaller clans could swear fealty to larger clans, offering a weekly tribute/payment of some kind for access to their facilities. They would keep their own clan channel and perhaps even spawn in a separate instance of the dojo.

[Alexandeath]

Why can't they scale the resources of the dojo by the size of the clan? More people, more resources, less people, less resources, all at a fixed %. That's the best solution for solo and group players.

 

I freaking hate people, I cant stand playing multiplayer games, they should think about people like us, because I know that really high% of people that play this game is like me.

[BramBlackmon]

This is like complaining about giving a blow job against your will, Mid blow job. You already tossed aside any right to complain as a consumer the first time they pulled a stunt like this and you kept playing. 

So I don't care

 

And you know why? Funny thing about these forums. every time someone complains about the tiniest thing, there's an instant defensive backlash. and it doesn't matter what it's about, there's always those people who have to pop up to say "here's why you're wrong." and here's where the joke comes in, those exact same people will turn right around the minute something they don't like happens, and demand everybody rally together with them. and you know what, nobody cares anymore. We're a group of people whose number one concern is "Does it affect me unfavorably at all?" and if the answer is no, then nobody cares. 

 

So for once, since things are going in my favor, I've decided to completely check out until your hopes for change are inevitably crushed.

[Cinderain]

Whilst I agree that it is nothing like Diablo did you ever actually play PSO? Game play wise it's almost a carbon copy; obviously there are sleight differences such as targeting, movement and spells but overall they are way to similar!

I loved PSO, managed to clock up well over 1000 hours on v2 alone not to mention the original and gamecube version.

 

Yes, I have. PSO years ago and the Japanese Closed Beta of PSO2. I realized that they had some similarities after I posted it, but I didn't care enough to do anything about it.

[nerfpls69]

What if smaller clans had the choice to be some sort of vassal to a larger clan ? so they could share the dojo and contribute resources to it, getting all the benefits without having to disband to join a large clan.

 

Make it so the warlord of the large clan could set up color schemes for the vassal members to have in their dojo, and the members of the owner clan would be prioritized to be put in the same instance as the other members.

 

And if the vassal clan wants to break up with the "lord" they would have to pool together a donation of resources and credits for the lord's clan vault (nothing too absurd, off course), or the lord could just let them go and dismiss them any time he wants.

 

Large clans could be anything with 100+ members, small ones would be anything up to 35, with a limit of 10 vassals or so, and once a small clan applied to be a vassal, they could grow as much as they wish. We could have a tax charged weekly for a vassal to retain access to the dojo, it would be a fixed value scaled by the amount of members in each vassal clan, something really cheap for a small group of people but really expensive for a large one, so vassals actually have a motivation to break up and build their own dojos if they actually expand. This tax wouldn't go to the owner's clan vault to avoid people excluding small groups, but each active vassal could generate a resource income for that clan, so people are actually encouraged to have them.

 

I think something like this would fix the "small clans can't do S#&$" issue while keeping the value dojos currently have.

Edited May 28, 2013 by nerfpls69

[CptDux]

im not giving up hope as a small clan we have 11 people. but were making progress its going to be a slow start but once we get some rooms in wel be set

[OriKlein]

It doesn't matter what game it is, that's what Clans and Guilds do.

 

Level requirements, skill requirements, talking requirements, personality requirements, monetary requirements, etc. That's just the clan/guild world of online games.

 

After dealing with the variety of nonsense that Clans and Guilds have to offer for almost a decade, I'm not putting up with that anymore.

This, and so much more and worse (drama, grief, abuse, leeching clique leadership, just to name a few), is the reason why I run my own clan with as liberal, casual, laid back, relaxed, rules/demands-free approach as possible and while growing still (30+ members) will be keeping it within intimate levels and won't be going overboard onto the hundreds of members zone.

These are also the reasons why I, and my membership likewise, can never trust any other guild or leaders to place ourselves under, least of all guilds whom certain members of this community are part of - wouldn't want to be anywhere near a clan where their immature, unprofessional and narcissist ilk hold any position of authority over us.

Best Regards,

Edited May 28, 2013 by OriKlein

[Itamifox]

My response to the mats proportional to the size of clans...

It's simple abusable,

Let's say I make clan invite 5 players builds a part, kicks them... Builds another part and repeats, while keeping the cost of sectors as small as possible....

I am against this unless DE comes up with a better idea

OR make 3 different presets that doesn't depend on the number but on quality

I've been thinking on the whole "brackets" idea where Tier 5 clans have a limit of 10 people but lower resource costs on rooms. Upgrading to Tier 4 would give them 50 slots but would be the equivalent of about 75% of the total resources of their current dojo to keep people from abusing the lower cost of small clan dojos. Something like this would allow all sizes of clans to progress and keep things from seeming too easy or too hard for everyone.

[Grilleds]

What about a vassal/allegiance system?

Smaller clans could swear fealty to larger clans, offering a weekly tribute/payment of some kind for access to their facilities. They would keep their own clan channel and perhaps even spawn in a separate instance of the dojo.

I would so abuse that by making a clan called "King of Warframe" with only me in it and demand all other clans pay tribute to me.

EDIT: Better name: "King Tenno"

Edited May 28, 2013 by Grilleds

[Rafarix]

I have read about 6 pages in this thread so I think I got an idea on what is going on here. Here are some of my thoughts of some suggestions I seen in this thread, and note I did not read the entire thread.

 

1) Resource cost scaling base on members - Terrible Idea, asides from it being abusable, you are crippling large guilds and pretty much doing the opposite of the current situation. This will be strongly discouraging/punishing large clans and only look in favor for small clans only.

 

2) Cap on clans - Though not a terrible idea, I don't really like this, it's defiantly not as bad of an idea as resource scaling, but I have been in guilds that have gotten big that they make sister guilds and communication between them can be rough, not to mention they usually pay less attention to sister guilds.

 

There was another suggestion, but it was on a different thread (or was suggested here but I didn't read) and it's reducing the cost of resources for ALL, and possible cut out forma cost, or make it a lot less. This idea I like. This solution will not cause any issues with large clans and can be helpful to smaller ones. 

 

Small clans should not be insignificant, but you shouldn't try to gimp larger ones just because they are getting stuff a lot faster then you are. That's the benefit of being in one. Think about this: if I have 100 good workers making a house, will they take more, less, or just as much time as 10 good workers making the exact same house?

 

And if anyone doesn't want to be in your guild because it's not "big" then look at it like this, you just avoided a freeloader who wants stuff handed to them instead of working for it. I guess that is one way of having quality members in a clan.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Rafarix

[Caspase]

Does anyone agree with me when i say that the dojo and the clan research features are very good ideas?

If the only thing driving us into a clan would be getting the researchable weapons, as someone else already suggested, we could just join a big group, buy the stuff and leave.. On the other hand you Devs could give every small group the chance to enjoy this great feature and get their shiny-little-houses and do the homework in the labs.. When there are those global events like the fusion-moa hunt, bigger clans will still have a considerable advantaged on the reach of the highest ranks among the contributors.. (here i'd even suggest a cap on the number of the clan members! the lower the cap the more thrilling would be the competition between the clans..)

[Visarogo]

i have only one problem with the current setup... the forma

having a cross section room take 5 forma i think is a little steep... the resources are made just fine myself and three other clan mates have been able to farm out most of one room and part of a second since it launched and its fine for our clan (5-10) but the forma hasnt even been seen yet

i understand why the forma is there and can see the labs costing more than the hallways and such but i can't see why it takes 5 for something that should be manageable even by a dedicated small clan

[Gungrave_8]

Other than the fancy weapons, the dojo is not that of a big deal. Probably the duels have more interest actually.
I joined a massive clan in day 3 of my registration of WarFrame. They are cool guys, we help each other, and best of all, I didn't met a single @#$hole. We have dojo and all the fancy rooms, some in building. Me personally, if I want to play with close friends I manage a private session game.
Simple as that.
I think however the prices for the dojo tech are like in giant Mall with TAG Heuer products only, LOL :D

Edited May 28, 2013 by Gungrave_8

[xenapan]

 It is unreasonable to ask DE to hold the hand of smaller clans. By making it easier for you they devalue the work of thousands of players who are in larger clans.

 

 Your gameplay experience is not more important then a player in a large clan. If you choose to stick to a small group or not grow into a larger group that is fine, but you better not expect to be able to power through content like a clan who did decide to grow.

 

 This isn't even a new concept. Guilds/Clans are like this in nearly every game with very few exceptions.

Completely untrue.

a) there are more smaller clans out  there than bigger ones. Thus big clans are the minority not the majority.

b) It makes no sense lore wise or player-base wise to have bigger clans. In that case you should open up missions to allow thousands of players instead of 4.

c) the people in smaller clans actually care about their community. cause guess what. they chose a smaller clan for that exact reason. be it a small group of friends, or just a small set of likeminded individuals.

d) this isnt every other game. part of what makes this game unique is that its a CO-OP fps thats entirely PVE focused. If they wanted this game to be any other game they would make it PVP space ninja battles!

e) nothing that a smaller clan can do will devalue what people in bigger clans accomplish. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/53479-people-need-to-go-back-to-school-ill-educate-you/

[Kerrus]

Scaling materials is not the way to go. At all.

Scaling resources is not the way to go, no, however consumable resources is.

Another game I play is Star Trek Online, and recently (past year) they introduced a system very much like the dojo- but it didn't require a special really hard to get unless you have a massive clan/lots of money resource to gate it. Instead they gated expansion on time. You could run three projects in up to three categories, and only by advancing all three categories, could you advance your base. Projects started out running for a day or two, and at each of five successive tiers, got longer and consumed more resources- which meant that yes, a large clan can fill those projects more than a small clan- but should they decide to scale resources, you aren't saving too much, and everything's *still* time gated.

But then the actual 'stuff' you build your clan base up to buy has to be provisioned. Rather than just building the 'special guns store' and then everyone being able to buy infinite special guns, you have to run time gated projects that provide a limited number of provisions, and whenever someone buys a special gun, it consumes a provision.

This handidly solves balancing issues and the like, because you can just drop the prices of everything down- because gear takes provisions, and provisions are ultimately time gated. Sure, a big clan can keep running provision projects constantly, but because each 'contract' takes like three days to complete, you've got a limited amount incoming. Essentially they're balancing it around time and limited project amounts, rather than just resources and instant construction.

In my opinion smaller clans should be 'allowed' insofar as this game is marketed as a four man cell type group, and having a group of 6-8 friends should still be able to gain access to what is effectively endgame content, albeit slower than the massive goonsquad clans. I'd very much support DE reducing costs across the board and then instituting a time gate on construction of new rooms and the building/provisioning of materiel.

A lot of people in here are all oh look how much work a big clan takes, but it's really backwards. A big clan takes almost no work at all- that's why they exist. The comparative contributions for a big clan are much less than those of a small clan, and DE really should work on the system so it's not biased towards the big clan setup as much.

Taking away the requirement of Forma to build literally EVERYTHING in the dojo would be a great way to do it. I get that Forma are magic matter shaping puzzle pieces, but do we really need them for hallways and crap?

Leave them in for stuff that isn't just 'a room'- reactors, labs, oracles- by all means the specialty stuff can keep the requirement. But honestly paying for each intersection, or elevator, or big room in forma is rather ridiculous.

Removing that requirement would eliminate a major difficulty that small clans face, and possibly single handedly make small clans viable again.

[Agent_of_Change]

I understand your (the OP) frustrations but I disagree with your approach.  At current my Clan has 18 members on  the books and roughly 8 of which are significant contributors to the dojo at this point do to amount of play time and progression level (people past the point of burning a bunch of resources on new stuff everyday).

 

With essentially 8 contributors we have completed our first connector and are ~90% done with our reactor just over the weekend.  The grind for the materials is a little annoying but hell, we completed our first room within 36 hours of being able to, I feel pretty good about that.

 

Small clans have a choice knuckle down and earn the dojo, or don't.  Personally when my Clan finishes our first research project solely by our own hard work I'll be ecstatic about the accomplishment not moping about how hard it was.

 

that said I think drop rates for some of the materials does need to be looked at, alloy plate while much much much better still isn't dropping near fast enough for all of the things (rooms and weapons and frame it's required for.)

[Filial-Devotion]

Even with me and my large clan, the cost of Formas and all other materials are ridiculous! the forma parts is what gets us, some of us actually want to polarize.

[Dagnome]

As someone had previously suggested, you do not need a 300 member clan to achieve dojo completion. A clan of 30 players or so who play actively can achieve the research weapons in a reasonable, and proportional, amount of time. I am against any kind of "Scaling" or "Clan cap" of any kind.

"Scaling"

This is a terrible idea, I believe it was Blatant who pointed out that if we "scale the dojo buildings to how many members you had in clan then that would defeat the purpose of having a big clan as the 3-10 man clans could produce the research weaponry much quicker than a 300 man clan due to the greatly reduced resource cost. This would open the game up for abuse and would go against Steves (From what I have gathered) image of where he wants this game to go. When clan warfare hits you will not want to have thousands of 10 man clans competing for control of the galaxy all because it was more efficient for the clan dojo to have that small clan.

"Clan member cap"

This is just a silly idea in my opinion and it is being brought up by clans and clan leaders (With all due respect guys) either choose to have tiny clans or are having a hard time recruiting. I do admit clans that have been around since closed beta and such have a huge head start on newer clans, I wont deny that, but you know what? The members of those clans and that clans leadership have devoted a good chunk of their time to the game already. In the end these will be the clans you are competing with come Meta game whether you like it or not. I know many individuals in these "Small" clans and are perfectly content with the speed at which their dojo is being completed, that is because they are playing the game and not wasting their time crying on the forums for DE to cater to their smaller clan.

"High costs"

Even for a bigger clan, I have seen complaints about the costs. DE may need to look at the costs again but I don't see a problem with the current resource requirements (Including forma) that is needed ot build some of these dojo buildings. They wont hand you a clan dojo, and the players who choose to pay for the forma to build these buildings good on them because they are supporting the game. It is entirely possible to get the required forma with the free to play method however, and this comes into line with how many active members you have in your clan. If 30 of your members run Defense missions to get Forma blueprints (Or void runs) then yo can get that 15, 25, or 50 forma to build that research lab or great hall. This again comes down to not your clan size, but your clans activity.

Am I saying to leave your clan and join a bigger, more established clan? No. Am I saying that the leadership of these smaller clans maybe need to rethink their recruitment tactics if the size of their clan is something they are struggling with? Possibly. If you are in a smaller clan try asking the leadership or members of these bigger clans for some tips on recruiting, I am sure some would be willing to throw you a suggestion or two. I can promise you that if they start handing out clan dojos to smaller clans it will upset the bigger clans, most of which have contributed large amounts to this game. While this does not in any way entitle us to a stronger opinion or favoritism, Thinking of the impact on their investors would be something any business would consider before making a change like that.

"Free to play does not mean Non profit"

Edited May 28, 2013 by Dagnome

[Kantazo]

To OP, you are a small clan why not to recruit more people, find people that like what you like. Advertise what you are offering.

 

Also Dojo should be considered something of a long term goal, stuff to work towards, like an achievement, the saying "Rome was not built in one day" is so much true.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Kantazo

[Zyfe3rX]

Alliance

Would be best option.

A group of players having rank over X can create an alliance. Then interested clans can join that alliance and make a single super dojo. If a clan is inactive they can put a vote kick. There should be clan chat and alliance chat.

They can share stuff while having their own clans and clan names.

Any clan can leave at anytime. Or they can stay in the alliance for as long as they want. Limit of 10 clans per alliance. Would be good.

[Dagnome]

Alliance

Would be best option.

A group of players having rank over X can create an alliance. Then interested clans can join that alliance and make a single super dojo. If a clan is inactive they can put a vote kick. There should be clan chat and alliance chat.

They can share stuff while having their own clans and clan names.

Any clan can leave at anytime. Or they can stay in the alliance for as long as they want. Limit of 10 clans per alliance. Would be good.

Would you be referring to the idea of a "Province system" *Wink wink @ DESteve* ;p

[Nod_Off]

Even with me and my large clan, the cost of Formas and all other materials are ridiculous! the forma parts is what gets us, some of us actually want to polarize.

The Dojo was not meant to be built in a week to be honest. It was meant to take a few weeks min.

[Blatantfool]

You know what's unreasonable?

To ask social clans to break up and force them to join clans with 1800++ members

There are only a few clans that big. Warbros is nowhere near that size, for instance.

Besides - that isn't even the case. It is a horrible exaggeration.

The sweet spot where a clan will start to more easily complete the clan dojo is once it reaches something like 50+ active players. It doesn't matter how big the clan is, just that it has a large enough variety of active players working on the job.