Pay 2 Win Much?

[Mr.Kaeron]

I've been playing almost non stop since the patch, and not a single key has dropped from defense or raid missions or any pther kind of mission i've run. The only reason i saw void content was simply cuz friends of mine who bought keys brought me along.
Some1 who goes "free 2 play" has virtually no chance of seeing content, you just give an illusion of free content dont kid urselves you force people to pay

"Oh they need to make money" ofc they do and i never said otherwise, but this is not the way to do it. People dont like to be forced to buy ingame stuff otherwise they wont progress. You should seriously look into other f2p models so this 1 doesnt go down the drain (League of Legends for example)
The current prices are no way "micro-transactions"
Plus some people like me if feeling forced to pay to progress i simply wont do it out of spite, and not because i dont like spending money on games i like. I've spent tons of money on League of Legends prolly way more than i would like to admit xD but still i pay because i want 2, not because i'm forced to do it.
Currently you got 2 choices either you buy ur way in, or you rely on "luck" with a questionable "Rng"
Are you serious with these drop rates? This is getting way out of hand.

I need 2 pay to get slots (i got 4 warframes sitting on foundry + 5 weapons simply cuz i got no slots)
There are plenty of threads explaining why this is a an extremly limiting problem

The "Rng" next to this the diablo 3 RNG is rewarding -_-. Farmed over 600 mods and no thunderbolt, are you kidding me? Ofc if i pay 50 quid i can get it obviously.

Platinum Price are an outrage, it's not even funny the amount of plat you ask for stuff
The plat packs are almost not even worth picking up
Every patch is turning this game into a more Pay 2 Win kind of game.
It's a shame a real shame.
Sooner or Later people will get tired

I'm expressing my own opinion, i love this game, i'm just sad with the road it's taking and the bad choices, so please restrain urselfs with flames.
 

[Law_Abiding_Engineer]

Its a pay4convience, not pay2win

[TheErebus.]

50$ and you get it?

With what? The mod packs?

Buddy listen here, I wasted god knows how many plat on the mod packs for a Killing Blow mod.

Nothing.

[Xoxile]

What do you win if you pay?

[Faethore]

Wow your luck is the suck.  I've gotten two keys as rewards after running four defence missions.

[CaptainHugeKatana]

This is just pay2notFarm.

You can get almost every thing for platinums by free.

So,dont complain please,DE made very successful game about that question.

[Kishward]

I've been trying to figure it out for a couple hundred hours now, but how do you "win" Warframe?

oh and I've gotten 5 void keys from Io defense. Give that one a shot.

[ETQW]

I can understand you and your feelings, but! You are unlucky enough. Many ppls already craft frost prime, many loot void keys, formas... But what about paiyng for service? 10-20$ per month it is EASY and normall to pay like a WOW and other games. Especially, in this game you are not forced to pay. If you do not pay, push your luck, and if you want to get everything fast - pay.

Edited May 29, 2013 by ETQW

[Argoms]

I'm going to have to agree on a lot of the stuff here, despite the tone. If you tell someone they have to buy it, a lot won't simply out of spite (myself included). Especially when you charge the price of a full game for it.

 

Also, I'd look at this thread if you want to talk about plat prices- it's a well thought out rework of the market prices: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/52192-the-warframe-market-is-a-joke-and-actively-discourages-impulse-purchases-updated-includes-solution-to-installed-catalystsweapon-slot-on-weapons/

 

And to the people who say "you're just unlucky"- that's exactly what's wrong with the current systems. There are many ways to distribute content that don't create massive variation in the time required to reach something.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Argoms

[LordSilv3r]

The only bad thing imho is that you're obliged to sell something (weapons or worse warframes) because you have to buy slots. I have spent 40Platinum and I still have 10 that are useless for me, i would prefer to get other 2 platinum for at least buying 2 slots for weapons.

[NaturalBad]

i started a week ago and i'll probably give up soon. 

 

-Inventory is really small so after i get a few weapons/Waframes only thing left for me will be upgrading mods and getting catalist/formas. 

Now here's the thing

 

Farming catalysts/formas is quite impossible without paying. Even with playing all day i'll probably never be able to max out one frame/weapon combo. 

 

So why even bother. 

[Nod_Off]

I've been playing almost non stop since the patch, and not a single key has dropped from defense or raid missions or any pther kind of mission i've run. The only reason i saw void content was simply cuz friends of mine who bought keys brought me along.

Some1 who goes "free 2 play" has virtually no chance of seeing content, you just give an illusion of free content dont kid urselves you force people to pay

"Oh they need to make money" ofc they do and i never said otherwise, but this is not the way to do it. People dont like to be forced to buy ingame stuff otherwise they wont progress. You should seriously look into other f2p models so this 1 doesnt go down the drain (League of Legends for example)

The current prices are no way "micro-transactions"

Plus some people like me if feeling forced to pay to progress i simply wont do it out of spite, and not because i dont like spending money on games i like. I've spent tons of money on League of Legends prolly way more than i would like to admit xD but still i pay because i want 2, not because i'm forced to do it.

Currently you got 2 choices either you buy ur way in, or you rely on "luck" with a questionable "Rng"

Are you serious with these drop rates? This is getting way out of hand.

I need 2 pay to get slots (i got 4 warframes sitting on foundry + 5 weapons simply cuz i got no slots)

There are plenty of threads explaining why this is a an extremly limiting problem

The "Rng" next to this the diablo 3 RNG is rewarding -_-. Farmed over 600 mods and no thunderbolt, are you kidding me? Ofc if i pay 50 quid i can get it obviously.

Platinum Price are an outrage, it's not even funny the amount of plat you ask for stuff

The plat packs are almost not even worth picking up

Every patch is turning this game into a more Pay 2 Win kind of game.

It's a shame a real shame.

Sooner or Later people will get tired

I'm expressing my own opinion, i love this game, i'm just sad with the road it's taking and the bad choices, so please restrain urselfs with flames.

So you are brand new to the game and are now an expert?

If you do not know the difference between pay 2 win, and pay 4 convenience, especially in a 4 person coop game... Please stop posting silly threads on the forum.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Zackai

[neKroMancer]

I simply have to protest.

Do you have statistics to support your conclusion? How many missions have you been doing until now? While many players have been claiming the drop chance to be so low to the point of abysmal, there are also others who claim that it can be found in defense or raid mission (I found one from M Prime myself).

Statistic with proper calculation is required before player can claim be knows about drop rate. What we seeing now is alternative hypothesis based on your observation, not statistic. I'm not trying to belittle your problem. Your problem is real, for you. However, it doesn't mean it's true for all of us.

[Unschlagbar]

[...]

Every patch is turning this game into a more Pay 2 Win kind of game.

It's a shame a real shame.

Sooner or Later people will get tired

I'm expressing my own opinion, i love this game, i'm just sad with the road it's taking and the bad choices, so please restrain urselfs with flames.

 

exactly this!

Edited May 29, 2013 by Unschlagbar

[Nod_Off]

I'm going to have to agree on a lot of the stuff here, despite the tone. If you tell someone they have to buy it, a lot won't simply out of spite (myself included). Especially when you charge the price of a full game for it.

 

Also, I'd look at this thread if you want to talk about plat prices- it's a well thought out rework of the market prices: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/52192-the-warframe-market-is-a-joke-and-actively-discourages-impulse-purchases-updated-includes-solution-to-installed-catalystsweapon-slot-on-weapons/

 

And to the people who say "you're just unlucky"- that's exactly what's wrong with the current systems. There are many ways to distribute content that don't create massive variation in the time required to reach something.

the only thing you "have" to pay for, which you in fact dont need to pay for, is the Excal Prime, etc. Guess what, the same guns - gold accents are in the game, and those prime weapons are pretty poor to begin with .....

[Solstic]

I've gotten a few T2 keys from farming defense missions. You're just unlucky.

[Mr.Kaeron]

Its a pay4convience, not pay2win

That would be the case if you could actually get proper loot for progress, i agree on some part that mostly it's pay4convience but when you cant get any of that so called progressing loot through hundreads of gameplay hours. It stops being convinience

 

 

50$ and you get it?

With what? The mod packs?

Buddy listen here, I wasted god knows how many plat on the mod packs for a Killing Blow mod.

Nothing.

Check that for urself you get thunderbolt with a 44 euro purchase

https://warframe.com/buyplatinum

 

 

Wow your luck is the suck.  I've gotten two keys as rewards after running four defence missions.

Well, i've spent yesterday evening doing defense missions and nothing even remotely close to a key as a reward

 

 

This is just pay2notFarm.

You can get almost every thing for platinums by free.

So,dont complain please,DE made very successful game about that question.

I love these posts really i do. Sure when you pay it's to avoid farming obviously

But like i explained earlier if u havent noticed, the problem with the "free loot" it that is so incredibly hard to attain that forces you to pay

And i'm a costumer i'm entitled to complain. This is not a club, so leave the clubism at the door.

I'm not saying the DE are the spawns of satan and should be hammered with a dildobat. I'm pointing out flaws that i as a customer see. In order to provide better feedback and improve the game.

 

 

I've been trying to figure it out for a couple hundred hours now, but how do you "win" Warframe?

oh and I've gotten 5 void keys from Io defense. Give that one a shot.

Pay 2 win is an expression. So dont be silly about it "how you win" could you argue that you feel that you win, when you get the loot you want etc. But thats subjective.

Like i said again if you havent read, i've been running countless defense missions. I gave that plenty of shots already.

[Argoms]

Reposting.

And to the people who say "you're just unlucky"- that's exactly what's wrong with the current systems. There are many ways to distribute content that don't create massive variation in the time required to reach something.

[Venus-Venera]

sure it is pay2win. i would have no problem with that. but when i see this garbage performance, tons of lag everywhere, chat and party system in pre alpha stage... 

so what is the point to pay for this joke? i better use money as toilet paper

[Nod_Off]

So you are brand new to the game and are now an expert?

I simply have to protest.

Do you have statistics to support your conclusion? How many missions have you been doing until now? While many players have been claiming the drop chance to be so low to the point of abysmal, there are also others who claim that it can be found in defense or raid mission (I found one from M Prime myself).

Statistic with proper calculation is required before player can claim be knows about drop rate. What we seeing now is alternative hypothesis based on your observation, not statistic. I'm not trying to belittle your problem. Your problem is real, for you. However, it doesn't mean it's true for all of us.

+1000

Quality, truthful post.

 

 

exactly this!

Nope.

I love the amount of people who started playing a week or two ago, that seem to complain the hardest....

You have so much left to do in the game that is free, meaning everything, you should not even be on the forums, you should be playing.

[Mr.Kaeron]

So you are brand new to the game and are now an expert?

If you do not know the difference between pay 2 win, and pay 4 convenience, especially in a 4 person coop game... Please stop posting silly threads on the forum.

I'm sorry but i have to reply to this.

I'm new? Mr,GrandMaster

I have logged around 300 hours into the game. I got 5 warframes plus 4 warframes at foundry & working on bashee + frost prime. Got 22 weapons + around 5 at foundry

I got almost every mod the game has, except the new mods.

So restrain urself from those attacks and go post somewhere else.

[VoidPunch]

Yea i think you are just unlucky or not playing the right missions. Keys only drop in certain missions, like defense and raid for example. I've gotten about 3 keys from maybe 10 or so defense missions and my roommate has gotten about 7 within a few hours of the patch. Maybe you just don,t get very far in your defense missions, the higher the round the more likely you will get a key.

[Agent_of_Change]

I'm not sure the Op has a firm knowledge of what the concepts he is referencing mean.

 

lets go over a list of terms it appears are being explicitly or implicitly misunderstood.

 

Pay to Win

Free to Play

Random Number Generator

Grind

Product value

 

Now we can address those all in a simple explanation.

 

A free to Play game is a game that allows you it's core game play free of charge, these games do have to monetize to support themselves.  Often this takes the shape of two things: 1. cosmetic items, skins, "exclusives" that don't imbalance game play and 2. shortcut the process of earning in game items through play (called grinding), in short time or money.  A free to play game does have to be careful of the concept of pay to win wherein Items that can imbalance game play are available exclusively to paying customers, the threshold is a little looser on a PVE game than PVP because the enemies are not other people and it is simply a question of difficulty and not fairness.  

 

Now an element is not Pay to win if it can reasonably be gained through "grind", which brings us to the random number generator or "RNG"  this can make things seem unreasonably hard to get due to the nature of randomness.  contrary to popular belief streaks are a hallmark of randomness in fact the gamblers fallacy or an assumption of perfect distribution is deeply delusional when conceptualizing an RNG.  Functionally you need a sample size commensurate to the number of possible out comes and the set rates of drops to determine if the rng is actually functional, in a free to p[lay game your personal experience is unlikely to be anything near a significant data set.  You may just be (un)lucky but that doesn't mean a feature is pay to win or unreasonable to attain, that is the nature of the grind.  Again time for money.

 

Most free to play games use an in-game "real money" currency. now the amount of it and what you get for it are set generally by what the market will bear.  This is perceived product value, an individuals personal opinions bear very little on this but a groups does.  As a rule this is the primary monetization of a F2P game and so if it isn't selling well the prices will change.  If you are complaining about it and the prices are not changing odds are you are in the minority, as a rule businesses want to make money and thy will adjust if they are not, if your perceived value of the in game currency is less than the community at larges you should not expect it to change.

 

And know you know what these things mean and you can stop making posts that have no bearing on reality beyond a QQ temper tantrum that makes you look like a child.

 

 

TLDR: The OP has no clue what he is talking about

Edited May 29, 2013 by Agent_of_Change

[Farren]

The only thing I agree with you here is slots, everything else is so, so wrong.

You can earn, every last thing, in this game, by working for it. Only Colors, Avatar Packs, and Slots, are Platinum only. Anyhow five dollars or your regional equivalent is not that much to pay for say, three slots. Avatars and Colors are purely aesthetic and do not affect or improve your game-play. You CAN go to The Void without paying, you CAN get every Warframe and weapon without dropping a dime on this game, so stop complaining. I have played pay-to-win games before, and this is not the case. If it is a "Pay-to-" anything, it's convenience. You can, say, get Vauban by waiting for the right Alerts, or you can support the DEs and get him quicker. Now the RNG system isn't great, you know it, I know it, the DEs know it, and are trying to fix it. Most games don't even have that kind of dedication. A lot of games never will. I've played this game a long time, and have gotten almost every Rare class Mod, every Warframe, and every weapon in this game by working for it, not sitting in the forums and complaining. You doing just that and crying P2Win at people does nothing for you or us. You want to improve your gaming experience? Work with the DEs, give constructive feedback, send support tickets for bugs, suggest possible new features for the game, and work towards making this great game even greater.

Thank you, and have a nice day.

[TheErebus.]

I'm not sure the Op has a firm knowledge of what the concepts he is referencing mean.

 

lets go over a list of terms it appears are being explicitly or implicitly misunderstood.

 

Pay to Win

Free to Play

Random Number Generator

Grind

Product value

 

Now we can address those all in a simple explanation.

 

A free to Play game is a game that allows you it's core game play free of charge, these games do have to monetize to support themselves.  Often this takes the shape of two things: 1. cosmetic items, skins, "exclusives" that don't imbalance game play and 2. shortcut the process of earning in game items through play (called grinding), in short time or money.  A free to play game does have to be careful of the concept of pay to win wherein Items that can imbalance game play are available exclusively to paying customers, the threshold is a little looser on a PVE game than PVP because the enemies are not other people and it is simply a question of difficulty and not fairness.  

 

Now an element is not Pay to win if it can reasonably be gained through "grind", which brings us to the random number generator or "RNG"  this can make things seem unreasonably hard to get due to the nature of randomness.  contrary to popular belief streaks are a hallmark of randomness in fact the gamblers fallacy or an assumption of perfect distribution is deeply delusional when conceptualizing an RNG.  Functionally you need a sample size commensurate to the number of possible out comes and the set rates of drops to determine if the rng is actually functional, in a free to p[lay game your personal experience is unlikely to be anything near a significant data set.  You may just be (un)lucky but that doesn't mean a feature is pay to win or unreasonable to attain, that is the nature of the grind.  Again time for money.

 

Most free to play games use and in game "real money" currency. now the amount of it and what you get for it are set generally by what the market will bear.  This is perceived product value, an individuals personal opinions bear very little on this but a groups does.  As a rule this is the primary monetization of a F2P game and so if it isn't selling well the prices will change.  If you are complaining about it and the prices are not changing odds are you are in the minority, as a rule businesses want to make money and thy will adjust if they are not, if your perceived value of the in game currency is less than the community at larges you should not expect it to change.

 

And know you know what these things mean and you can stop making posts that have no bearing on reality beyond a QQ temper tantrum that makes you look like a child.

 

 

TLDR: The OP has no clue what he is talking about

Summed it up quite well.