[8.3.0!] A Look At Mag [Suggested Tweaks And Noted Observations]

[Hauteclere]

I imagine they made an exception for Jackal, its design is radically different to anything else in the game, so testing it on him is silly. Test it on Hek/Vor, Ancients and Heavy Gunners as well. I would do it myself but I don't have time to right now.

 

I've just tested it on a disruptor. Damage was not redirected to the chest when I shot at its foot. In light of this however I will keep to my assumption that different mobs may have different effects. So I'll be testing all heavy class mobs, and bosses that are available for testing (Under circumstances where it will be easy to tell.)

 

When able I will provide pictures for visual proof, and have team mates also comment on their damage.

[Notso]

I've just tested it on a disruptor. Damage was not redirected to the chest when I shot at its foot. In light of this however I will keep to my assumption that different mobs may have different effects. So I'll be testing all heavy class mobs, and bosses that are available for testing (Under circumstances where it will be easy to tell.)

 

When able I will provide pictures for visual proof, and have team mates also comment on their damage.

 

Thanks a lot. If it's true that it doesn't redirect away from weak points I may well change my opinion about this power

[Boodendorf]

Thanks a lot. If it's true that it doesn't redirect away from weak points I may well change my opinion about this power

Well no it doesn't, if you want to get a 90% sure headshot when a bubble is up, just aim at the top of the bubble, bullet will come down right on the head. Done it many times on napalm/rocket launcher greenirs using boltor.

 

Btw I thought about something, how come Mag's abilities don't go both way, like shield polarize? I mean she uses magnetic powers, so she should be able to do something and then do the exact opposite (attract/repulse). Like Bullet attractor could be used on cryopods so that it reflects bullets in a random direction, that'd be cool. I doubt crush would work for that though.

[Hauteclere]

Well no it doesn't, if you want to get a 90% sure headshot when a bubble is up, just aim at the top of the bubble, bullet will come down right on the head. Done it many times on napalm/rocket launcher greenirs using boltor.

 

Btw I thought about something, how come Mag's abilities don't go both way, like shield polarize? I mean she uses magnetic powers, so she should be able to do something and then do the exact opposite (attract/repulse). Like Bullet attractor could be used on cryopods so that it reflects bullets in a random direction, that'd be cool. I doubt crush would work for that though.

 

That'd be amazing. I'd totally vouch for this.

[Notso]

Well no it doesn't, if you want to get a 90% sure headshot when a bubble is up, just aim at the top of the bubble, bullet will come down right on the head. Done it many times on napalm/rocket launcher greenirs using boltor.

Btw I thought about something, how come Mag's abilities don't go both way, like shield polarize? I mean she uses magnetic powers, so she should be able to do something and then do the exact opposite (attract/repulse). Like Bullet attractor could be used on cryopods so that it reflects bullets in a random direction, that'd be cool. I doubt crush would work for that though.

No offence but I don't need to use BA as a crutch to be 90% sure of a headshot.

My issue previously with it was I thought it actively deflected bullets aimed directly at weak spots towards the centre of mass of the target

Edited June 23, 2013 by Notso

[Hauteclere]

No offence but I don't need to use BA as a crutch to be 90% sure of a headshot.

My issue previously with it was I thought it actively deflected bullets aimed directly at weak spots towards the centre of mass of the target

 

To be fair it wouldn't be considered a crutch if the enemy is behind cover and you had to do that. : P I think that's more the point of BA, ne?

[Notso]

To be fair it wouldn't be considered a crutch if the enemy is behind cover and you had to do that. : P I think that's more the point of BA, ne?

Well I could just... Move around the cover but yes it is useful like that. I that's the problem with Mags 1-3 skills. You can so easily do what they do without wasting energy that it's better to save the energy for Crush.

[Hauteclere]

So far with bullet attraction :

 

Boss Golem -  Damage isn't changed from aimed area. (Tested with Party. All aimed attacks hit specified mark.)

Heavy Mob Disruptor - Damage isn't changed from aimed area. (Tested with Party. All aimed attacks hit specified mark.)

Counselor Vey Hek - Damage isn't changed from aimed.

PS : Learned something good.

BA attracts Vulban's tesla!

\

[Boodendorf]

No offence but I don't need to use BA as a crutch to be 90% sure of a headshot.

My issue previously with it was I thought it actively deflected bullets aimed directly at weak spots towards the centre of mass of the target

I didn't mean I needed bullet attractor to land headshots, what I meant is that if BA is up (for whatever reasons, be it defensive against napalms), you might as well get headshots by aiming at the top of the bubble.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Maybe for crush make it deal MORE damage to armored enemies (I mean, it sucks being squished into a little ball, but being squished AND having your armor smash you even further?)

[hiryu64]

Maybe for crush make it deal MORE damage to armored enemies (I mean, it sucks being squished into a little ball, but being squished AND having your armor smash you even further?)

Many of us have proposed that it deal armor-ignoring AP damage.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Many of us have proposed that it deal armor-ignoring AP damage.

Doesn't armor ignore simply ignore damage, not add damage if the target is armored? Or am I thinking of AP?

[hiryu64]

Doesn't armor ignore simply ignore damage, not add damage if the target is armored? Or am I thinking of AP?

 

Armor ignore: ignores level scaling

Armor pierce: another elemental type

[Prygon]

This was from another post I put in the wrong section.

 

As a Mag starter that has 30+ Hours, heres' my mag's "Biggest needs"

 

At first I thought that the mag would be a good all-around warframe (some support, damage), but over time I just relied on the Ult to level up mostly.

But the mag as the potential to be a very good frame by doing the following:

- Pull:

1. this needs to be able to pull enemies that are firing at you OVER ledges. Nothing is more disappointing to an a ability that's only function is to pull than for an enemy who is firing at you from above to get caught on the railing he was shooting from. He should be PULLED OVER it.

2. at Max rank you should be able to pull at least 3 or 4 enemies to you. Leveling it up for reach only seems extremely lack luster. Leave friendly pull at 1.

3. Add text stating you can pull friendlies that need revive toward you on the ability. I just learned that from a tip turning a load screen after 30+ hours. This is a big selling point that I didn't even know!

- Shield Polarize:

1. This is User Interfaced based. To help a teammate that has low shields you need to find them and see their health/shields. In a major firefight you cannot even make out most people and that crappy z window doesn't help.

My suggestion on this would be To have an eye shaped shield and health icon above every warframes head that can be seen through walls.

The top would have a blue bar and the bottom red. In the middle would be the suit's class icon (and maybe with an 1 or 2 if multiple of the same type). This should be default with any frame with support, with toggle to remove.

2. Change the power it give or takes from flat amount to percentage. This would help new players not be so useless to a group and give high level players more use out of it in difficult missions.

With these suggestions the Mag warframe would improve to a good level and not change the class dramatically.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Prygon

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Armor ignore: ignores level scaling

Armor pierce: another elemental type

Yes Yes, but AP gets bonus damage doesn't it vs medium grineer?

What I'm saying that you have COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY MISSED is that why not make mag's crush ignore armor AND then deal extra damage based on their armor (I can only imagine how much more it would hurt to have your armor crushed into in addition to being crushed into a little ball)

Edited June 24, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[hiryu64]

Yes Yes, but AP gets bonus damage doesn't it vs medium grineer?

Yes it does. And fire gets bonus damage against Infested. And electricity gets bonus damage against Corpus. And ice gets bonus damage against shields. It's treated as another elemental type.

 

What I'm saying that you have COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY MISSED is that why not make mag's crush ignore armor AND then deal extra damage based on their armor (I can only imagine how much more it would hurt to have your armor crushed into in addition to being crushed into a little ball)

Don't get hostile. If I missed it then it's because you didn't adequately communicate what you meant. Most of us have suggested that it deal armor-ignoring armor pierce damage. The AP would simulate enemy weakness to armored opponents (all units that are weak to AP tend to be heavily armored units). This is not different from what you proposed.

EDIT: UNLESS you mean that not only should it deal non-elemental damage but its damage should scale as the negative of the armor stat (i.e. enemies with more damage reduction should take MORE damage, leading to an increase in damage output as the target level increases). The problem with that is that Crush would become MORE powerful against higher-leveled enemies and, consequently, far too OP. Edited June 24, 2013 by hiryu64

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Yes it does. And fire gets bonus damage against Infested. And electricity gets bonus damage against Corpus. And ice gets bonus damage against shields. It's treated as another elemental type.

Yes, I understand how elements work.

 

 

Don't get hostile.

Sorry, but your reply seemed condescending (as if I didn't know how elements work)

 

If I missed it then it's because you didn't adequately communicate what you meant.

You're right, my bad.

 

Most of us have suggested that it deal armor-ignoring armor pierce damage. The AP would simulate enemy weakness to armored opponents (all units that are weak to AP tend to be heavily armored units). This is not different from what you proposed.

EDIT: UNLESS you mean that not only should it deal non-elemental damage but its damage should scale as the negative of the armor stat (i.e. enemies with more damage reduction should take MORE damage, leading to an increase in damage output as the target level increases). The problem with that is that Crush would become MORE powerful against higher-leveled enemies and, consequently, far too OP.

 

That is what I mean, and a direct scaling (66% reduction turning into 66% more damage) would be OP, but their armor value (not %) as damage wouldn't be too OP (i.e. AV of 200, add 200 damage to crush)

 

Edited June 24, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[simeo77]

I think one point which needs to be reminded of for Mag are her stats. I hope when revisions are made on Mag the stats are balanced up. (Shields or speed should be boosted).

 

If you look at the stats of Mag vs Frost (for example) Frost is stronger in every point but very slightly slower in speed.

 

Thought I should add those 2 cents.

[hiryu64]

I think one point which needs to be reminded of for Mag are her stats. I hope when revisions are made on Mag the stats are balanced up. (Shields or speed should be boosted).

 

If you look at the stats of Mag vs Frost (for example) Frost is stronger in every point but very slightly slower in speed.

 

Thought I should add those 2 cents.

 

Dude, her shields are absurd. She has the potential to be as tanky as Frost or even Rhino if you can max Redirection and Fast Deflection. She also has a 1.0 base speed. Health and armor are the only things Frost has on her. Honestly, I would say her stats are fine as they are. You have to keep in mind that Mag isn't built as a tank like Frost and Rhino are. Considering that she's actually pretty bulky.

Edited June 25, 2013 by hiryu64

[simeo77]

Dude, her shields are absurd. She has the potential to be as tanky as Frost or even Rhino if you can max Redirection and Fast Deflection. She also has a 1.0 base speed. Health and armor are the only things Frost has on her. Honestly, I would say her stats are fine as they are. You have to keep in mind that Mag isn't built as a tank like Frost and Rhino are. Considering that she's actually pretty bulky.

 

Oh I know her shields are fantastic. Here's what I'm trying to say:

 

Rank 30

Stat: Mag/Frost/Rhino

Health: 225/300/300

Shields:450/450/450

Power: 150/150/150

Armor: 50/150/150

Sprint: 1.0/0.9/0.9

 

Stats wise Frost and Rhino have everything Mag has and more with a very very tiny reduction in sprint speed. Does that look "balanced" to you? She needs either a high speed boost (most likely) or more power.

 

I think the speed boost only makes sense. She's a much smaller frame so she should be much more nimble.

Edited June 25, 2013 by simeo77

[hiryu64]

Oh I know her shields are fantastic. Here's what I'm trying to say:

 

Rank 30

Stat: Mag/Frost/Rhino

Health: 225/300/300

Shields:450/450/450

Power: 150/150/150

Armor: 50/150/150

Sprint: 1.0/0.9/0.9

 

Stats wise Frost and Rhino have everything Mag has and more with a very very tiny reduction in sprint speed. Does that look "balanced" to you? She needs either a high speed boost (most likely) or more power.

 

I think the speed boost only makes sense. She's a much smaller frame so she should be much more nimble.

 

Yeah, I think it looks perfectly balanced. If anything, I would expect Mag to be much less durable than she currently is (not that I'm complaining). Frost and Rhino have such high health and armor because they are specifically designed to take lots of hits. Mag not so much, although she certainly can take hits like Frost or Rhino due to her shields. As for her speed, she's only outclassed by Ash, Banshee, and Loki. Considering her excellent durability, her current speed is fine. I honestly don't see a need to rework her stats at all.

[simeo77]

 

...As for her speed, she's only outclassed by Ash, Banshee, and Loki. Considering her excellent durability, her current speed is fine...

 

And Nyx... which also outclasses her in power even though she doesn't need as much power as Mag needs it.

Edited June 25, 2013 by simeo77

[hiryu64]

How do you figure Mag needs more power? You could just as easily solve Mag's power issues by reducing the costs of her abilities (save for Crush, as it's perfect as a 100 cost ability). Not to mention you could also remedy this with the Flow and/or Streamline mods. I'm still not convinced that Mag's stats are the issue here. She's already very powerful. If you give her more speed or power then she'll just become too unbalanced. I think stat-wise she's perfect as is, and her abilities are the problem, not her stats.

[Hauteclere]

I'm probably going to regret this, because people tend to show how well they can read and use logic when they see things 'on paper'. But I'll show you where Mag stands as a Warframe on paper:

 

SA = Stat Average

H = Health

SC = Shield Capacity

E = Energy

A = Armor

SS = Sprint Speed

 

(High) & (Low) = Because there's a double average of 10 armor (Low) and 50 armor (High) I've marked the averages by their armor, since 10 armor is obviously lower than 50 armor.

 

 

 

The Overall Average Warframe Stats :

 

H  - 100 (300) 

    

SC - 100 (300)

    

E  - 100 (150)

    

A  - 50/10

    

SS - 1.0

 

Mag's Stats :

 

H  - 75 (255)     Below Average

    

SC - 150 (450)  Above Average

    

E  - 100 (150)   Average

    

A  - 50             Average (High)

    

SS - 1.0           Average

 

Above Average SA : 2

Mag standing : Below Average - One

 

 7 - 2

 

2 Ash : H, SS

2 Banshee : E, SS

2 Frost : SC, A

2 Loki : E, SS

2 Nyx : E, SS

2 Rhino : SC, A

2 Saryn : H, A 

1 Mag : SC

1 Ember : E 

1 Trinity : E

1 Vauban : E

1 Volt : SC  

 

Below Average SA : 0

Mag standing : Slightly Below Average - One

 

7 - 0

 

0 Ash : Above Average (High)

0 Banshee : Above Average (Low)

0 Ember : Slightly Above Average (Low)

0 Nyx : Above Average (Low)

0 Trinity : Slightly Above Average (Low)

0 Volt : Slightly Above Average ( Low)

0 Excalibur : Average 

1 Mag : H - Slightly Below Average ( High)

1 Frost : SS

1 Rhino : SS

1 Saryn : SS

2 Loki : H, SC

2 Vauban : SC, A

 

Personally...I see this as a good thing even on paper. Not a superwoman, but not a female Krillin. She's even in the high armor category out of the average category of Warframes.This is just on paper from the Wiki stats, though...so take that as you will.

 

Gotta say...this list is a bit telling in terms of favored Warframes. lol

Edited June 26, 2013 by Hauteclere

[Phoenix86]

 

-snip-

 

WAT?

 

we'r not talking about stats, this is about skills.

PS: Armor is useless.