Void Drop Rates + Void Keys Drop Rates + Void Key Pack Drop Rates+ Defense Reward Estimation

[Kynian]

Not all of us leeched off of others' generosity to get those. Some of us exploited hardcore, running over a hundred free void runs for others to help get parts and acquiring negative key totals in the process. I don't feel terrible or ashamed about this at all.

If you didn't buy any keys, how did you run over a hundred void missions for free? If other people gave you a free ride, you're leeching. If you bought the keys, this discussion is not for you I'm afraid. Btw, how exactly is this "exploit hardcore" you referred to? Would you mind shedding some light into it?

The third option is you found all the keys. I highly doubt you got a hundred T3 keys. Let's assume you or your friends got a hundred T1 or T2 keys, for free, no platinum spent (wich is pretty far-fetched in itself, but let's go with this). Even then, with about 100 runs on those tiers of void, the chances of getting a receiver or a blade is quite slim, let alone both.

So that takes us back, to my point: if you got all that, you either bought the keys, or you were given a lot of free rides.

Getting free rides = leeching of people that had keys. I hope I made my point clear by now.

did DE confirm this?

DERebecca said the reverse engineer was imperfect.

Seems to me the data was made out of the experiences of some players, and then compiled.

So while it's not official and accurate, I suppose it's still valid as an argument, since it is not all wrong and is based on player experiences.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Kynian

[cknives]

DERebecca said the reverse engineer was imperfect.

Seems to me the data was made out of the experiences of some players, and then compiled.

So while it's not official and accurate, I suppose it's still valid as an argument, since it is not all wrong and is based on player experiences.

There was a typo or a miss copy in the info so she made a big deal about it. Its data mined not some player experience. Its same as the data mined clan weapon stats and all the other stuff before it. Its straight from the warframe files so its probably correct.

[lilme3333]

If it is right everyones gonna run M Prime to get tier 3 keys since it has the number of items in the pool and a .02% higher chance to drop.

I REALLY don't wanna think this is right but........ 

[cknives]

If it is right everyones gonna run M Prime to get tier 3 keys since it has the number of items in the pool and a .02% higher chance to drop.

I REALLY don't wanna think this is right but........ 

If anyone is dumb enough to run M prime for a T3 key they deserve it lol.

 

 

If all you did was eat sleep and run M prime it would still take you most of the week to get 1 key.

[Kynian]

There was a typo or a miss copy in the info so she made a big deal about it. Its data mined not some player experience. Its same as the data mined clan weapon stats and all the other stuff before it. Its straight from the warframe files so its probably correct.

Then this is truly a worrisome matter. Dammit, now that I noticed and stopped to think about it, this RNG thing is making this beautiful and full of potential game look more and more like a korean grindfest. HATE those.

RNG on alerts, RNG on stalker visits (don't know about you, but I haven't seen the dude pop in my game in over 60 games looking for him specifically just today, not counting the other days of this past week I've been trying to find the guy), RNG on mods (this one's ok I suppose though), RNG on defense rewards (that come out as hellfire more often than not, ironically, and do not let you take previous 5-waves rewards, only current one, making advancement a big risk, laughable reward).

Damm... Warfarm and WaRNGframe name seems apropriate now.

@DE: As you can see, I'm a Hunter founder. Seriously considering upgrading to Master. I suppose you can see people with these badges in the forums as "I love this game, see potential in it and want to support it."

When completely freeplayers say they want to leave the game, it's a problem. When a founder, such as myself and several others start wondering about the future of the game, I believe it's a big problem.

As of right now these paywalls are ruining the game. I mean it, ruining it. Please don't turn this into a korean grindfest. There needs to be content for hardcore freeplayers, not just for paying ones. And even for the paying ones, these numbers show a very grim picture.

I know you guys are working on some kind of super-secret project for E3. And I assume this will go live at the same time it's being showcased there, or shortly after. But that's still a bit far off, and this problem is only getting bigger.

I'm hoping for the best here. You have been doing a great job so far, but some of these decisions may not have been the best you could've done.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Arguing with each other over datamined content that has already had to be corrected seems troublesome. The issue here is two fold:

1) Reversed engineered data is not perfect.

2) The RNG system as a whole is actively being changed.

So, bearing in mind Steve has addressed the issue of RNG as a whole (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55421-update-8-related-work/), and that our current system is largely inspired from games like Diablo (and others), what changes are you looking for? What would you like to see?

Personally, I would rather see less nested RNG. For instance, to get Frost Prime and actually use those blueprints I got for the moacide, I'd have to luck out on mission rewards. I can't just get any void key, it has to be level 2 or 3. Then, if I do luck out and get a T2 or T3 key, I then have to luck out again to get a part I want. One roll on the RNG is acceptable even if it's not something I necessarily like, but two rolls (one to see if I get a void key of the required level, one to see if I get what I'm looking for) is getting excessive. Indeed, I have done a good number of defense missions and I haven't seen a single void key. The only ones I've seen are the ones from the packs I bought, and one from a daily login reward.

And void key packs are about as bad, RNGwise. They used to be atrocious before the 1 guaranteed level 3 mission, but now they're just bad. As it stands, ~$5 for a guaranteed small chance of getting what I want, plus a small chance of getting a level 2 or 3 mission for an additional small chance at what I want is not a bargain I feel like making much, even though I've got plat to burn. The only reason I bought the packs I did was so I could help my clan out. Someone without plat to burn on this probably won't buy any packs at all.

Now, I was lucky and got all my prime gear after only a couple dozen void missions thanks to the help of my clan, but I got an awful lot of useless spare parts in doing that. In effect, my time was wasted on those runs that didn't give me what I was looking for, and if there's anything players hate, it's having their time wasted. (See also: How frustrating it is to farm Hyena and not even get a control module out of it.)

So, some ability to turn those spares into something useful would be great, and boosting the key drop rate, or at least making it common for high wave defense missions would also be good.

I'd wager everyone would be a lot less bothered by the lack of receivers if it was possible to turn, I don't know, six stocks/BPs/barrels/etc into a receiver.

Of course, there's still the perception of locking new content - an entire (beautiful) tileset with different enemies and gameplay - behind a paywall. That always riles up customers because it feels like a sort of bait and switch. (I'm sure you guys didn't intend this, but that's how it seems to some folks.) It's a matter of void key drops being so low. If there was a place you could go to actually have a reasonably good chance of finding a void key - a boss you could kill, perhaps, or a chain of missions you could do with the end reward being a void key - there'd be a lot less complaints of this sort.

 

Edit2: A clear delineation of what is in the pools would also be appreciated, but I doubt we'll get it. The void key packs are laughable (both overpriced and too little value; though DE Steve refused to acknowledge that platinum prices were ridiculous so the best I can hope for are changes to the contents.) Why not make each pack contain one of each of the 5 keys?

Well, they do know that plat prices are too high. Granted I would have gone the opposite direction and simply sharply cut prices on warframes and weapons and suchlike to encourage impulse spending, but I'd suppose the current notion of offering daily discounts as login rewards would serve the same purpose and ruffle less feathers from guys who already bought warframes and guns at the current ginormous prices. And if they only last for one day it's a stroke of marketing genius because people will have a strong psychological impetus to buy plat now before their discount expires.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[iBrigandi]

All hail WaRNGFrame

[Wellthen]

If you didn't buy any keys, how did you run over a hundred void missions for free? If other people gave you a free ride, you're leeching. If you bought the keys, this discussion is not for you I'm afraid. Btw, how exactly is this "exploit hardcore" you referred to? Would you mind shedding some light into it?

The third option is you found all the keys. I highly doubt you got a hundred T3 keys. Let's assume you or your friends got a hundred T1 or T2 keys, for free, no platinum spent (wich is pretty far-fetched in itself, but let's go with this). Even then, with about 100 runs on those tiers of void, the chances of getting a receiver or a blade is quite slim, let alone both.

So that takes us back, to my point: if you got all that, you either bought the keys, or you were given a lot of free rides.

Getting free rides = leeching of people that had keys. I hope I made my point clear by now.

 

You've made it clear that you were living under a rock during the last weekend. As I explicitly stated, some of us exploited hardcore to give people free runs. The exploit consisted of a person with a key making a lobby, and another person, a host, inviting that key-user into their game. This would cause the party to enter the void without using the key-user's key, but by subtracting an imaginary key from the host, giving that person a negative key count.

 

Hosts were not leeching as they were providing free runs to all involved, they did not buy keys with plat, and they did not farm keys from defense missions. The key-user did not consume the key they initially used to enter the void lobby.

 

I really wish people trying to argue things bothered to find out what goes on in the game. You can't have a discussion with someone who's uninformed yet insists on making blanket statements and shortsighted judgments.

[Shezo]

You've made it clear that you were living under a rock during the last weekend. As I explicitly stated, some of us exploited hardcore to give people free runs. The exploit consisted of a person with a key making a lobby, and another person, a host, inviting that key-user into their game. This would cause the party to enter the void without using the key-user's key, but by subtracting an imaginary key from the host, giving that person a negative key count.

 

Hosts were not leeching as they were providing free runs to all involved, they did not buy keys with plat, and they did not farm keys from defense missions. The key-user did not consume the key they initially used to enter the void lobby.

 

I really wish people trying to argue things bothered to find out what goes on in the game. You can't have a discussion with someone who's uninformed yet insists on making blanket statements and shortsighted judgments.

 

i suppose it was already fixed by now ?

[lilme3333]

If anyone is dumb enough to run M prime for a T3 key they deserve it lol.

 

 

If all you did was eat sleep and run M prime it would still take you most of the week to get 1 key.

lol it wouldn't surprise me one bit if someone was doing it right now. 

[Asla]

You've made it clear that you were living under a rock during the last weekend. As I explicitly stated, some of us exploited hardcore to give people free runs. The exploit consisted of a person with a key making a lobby, and another person, a host, inviting that key-user into their game. This would cause the party to enter the void without using the key-user's key, but by subtracting an imaginary key from the host, giving that person a negative key count.

 

Hosts were not leeching as they were providing free runs to all involved, they did not buy keys with plat, and they did not farm keys from defense missions. The key-user did not consume the key they initially used to enter the void lobby.

 

I really wish people trying to argue things bothered to find out what goes on in the game. You can't have a discussion with someone who's uninformed yet insists on making blanket statements and shortsighted judgments.

 

People who abused this exploit ll probably get ban, and I really hope so. You shouldn't write that on the forum and tell you were part of it. Just imo

 

 

Anyway, i was sleeping (european time) but i am very happy that the community seem to wake up with this thread.

De is definitely taking a wrong way and it's not too late (yet) to change.

[Kiteless]

Considering the direction that the game has been taking, and his position on it all, I'm sure that a ban won't threaten him too much. I don't blame him.

[Wellthen]

Considering the direction that the game has been taking, and his position on it all, I'm sure that a ban won't threaten him too much. I don't blame him.

If people hadn't been exploiting the keys, we'd never have found out how terrible the drop rates for blades/receivers were, or if we did it would have been months down the line. It was a necessary step to bring balance to the game.

[LunchBoxKilla]

I been Really silent but I am gonna drop my two cents... I play Star trek online... BEfore ya start flinging crap at me I'm gonna drop some comparisons... and I know this is apples to oranges but they both are FREE to PLAY...

 

in Star trek online (STO) you get this item called Dlithium... its rather useless and pointless if you don't need any thing BUT BUT BUT you can use it for Rare gear, Parts for ships crew armor any thing really... 

 

 

You get UNREFINED dlithium and you can convert it to "Refined" but wait! it gets better I could farm millons of tons of this stuff If i wanted to Hell the even have a mini game to MINE IT FOR REAL. but its all totaltly worthless because I have a hard cap limit of refining 8000 units a day..I gotta use this dlith in sinks to improve my fleet (clan's) halls so Now do i want epic loot or better clan stuff? 

 

but WAIT THERES MORE! (R.I.P Billy Mays)

 

You can sell off this dlith to players for that is their version of warframe's Platinum. 

 

You can get everything and anything with out limit for free but there are sinks sinks that offer gear, ships, and neat toys all at the tips of your fingers all wrapped up in a game that is both hard core and casual at the same time. Please DE look at this and learn.  All i ask... They must be doing something right since its 3 years old and went F2P two years in the running and will be seeing its 2nd year as a f2p game... there last update was a nightmare because the server couldn't handle it... But going on...

 

 

Their loot rewards scaled with the difficulty. the harder you SET a mission the better the rewards the GREATER the risk....

 

I don't even see this here in warframe at all and its bothersome. I've gotten two.... TWO split barrel mods since  that whole debacle of an update happened (I begrudgingly accepted as a better mod system to a degree and R.I.P weapon passive buffs). I grind them hard levels with my clan its sickening to hear them on my ventrilo server say they want to farm lover level ares because Focus seems to drop more often and "Hey i need a Fire mod lets go to Xini (or how ever you spell it) and just roll with it...

 

 

Give us a reason to go to high level areas and team up with out clans/friends/buddies, brothers in arms... I'm getting sick of solo low level grins just to get mats...I have no drive to group up with clan mates to play  "who's dethcube can kill the most level one greneer"

 

 

I'm not giving up on warframe but it has a lot of room to improve and I am clinging to my money right now to buy a founders pack. Right now that Life time membership on STO is looking better and better than a founder's pack. 

 

 

Edit: I am really tired and I'll rewrite this post when I get some sleep...

Edited June 3, 2013 by LunchBoxKilla

[Aggh]

Arguing with each other over datamined content that has already had to be corrected seems troublesome. The issue here is two fold:

1) Reversed engineered data is not perfect.

2) The RNG system as a whole is actively being changed.

So, bearing in mind Steve has addressed the issue of RNG as a whole (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55421-update-8-related-work/), and that our current system is largely inspired from games like Diablo (and others), what changes are you looking for? What would you like to see?

Thanks to those who referred to the concept of "rare" items as a whole and how that plays into drop rate systems in other games. Definitegj brings up a good point on "use it an it's gone" in regards to keys and how that could affect arguments.

Diablo has rng, but loot itself has a lot more variety.  Having to grind for hours for the same plain old mod that other people have gotten in minutes doesn't have quite as much appeal.  The more random nature of loot in diablo also lets players get a hold of something that is serviceable even if it isn't completely OP, so their builds aren't left with an all or nothing sort of performance.

 

Imo the reintroduction of multi attribute mods would be a good way to go about things.  Having randomly generated multi attribute mods would give you something that can actually be pretty unique and worth grinding for.  People won't grudge you for making them hard to get, especially if they can get decent ordinary mods in a reasonable amount of time.

[Mabswer]

Anyone notices how thunderbolt isn't there in the table?

 

No wonder I don't get it.

Neither is any of the newest mods

[Vabla]

Neither is any of the newest mods

That's because they are mob / container drops and not mission rewards.

[Excitonex]

I am missing something. Where does it say that every item should be easily attainable? In what RPG ever have you collected 1 of every single item without spending hundreds of hours or cheating?

 

The void is easily reachable without paying. If you actually try to find a good group of friends it should be no issue to do at least a couple void runs a week. The average person will unlock one of the Void weapons in a measly 64 hours if you have a small group of friends you play with. Where is the grindfest? If you can't wait 64 hours of play time to unlock the newest weapons you DO want instant gratification and you'll make this game boring in the long-run.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Excitonex

[Asla]

I am missing something. Where does it say that every item should be easily attainable? In what RPG ever have you collected 1 of every single item without spending hundreds of hours or cheating?

 

The void is easily reachable without paying. If you actually try to find a good group of friends it should be no issue to do at least a couple void runs a week. The average person will unlock one of the Void weapons in a measly 64 hours if you have a small group of friends you play with. Where is the grindfest? If you can't wait 64 hours of play time to unlock the newest weapons you DO want instant gratification and you'll make this game boring in the long-run.

 

You still don't get the point of this topic.

You still don't understand the gap between instant gratification and spending hours of farming without knowing if you ll finally get something or not.

The game is already boring in a long-run.

 

Do you know how human behavior work? No? I'll try to explain it.

 

Why are you playing an online game : 2 Reasons

 

-Entertainment

-Being rewarded ingame

 

I ll keep my exemple with Thunderbolt (could be whatever mod/weapons in the void you are looking for)

 

Are you entertain while bashing hours and hours the same ennemies in the same mission? No you aren't. It's entertaining when you start the game. It doesn't for most of player who reach 200+ hours playtime like me. You are bashing for hours because of the skinner box effect, which condition you to repeat the same action.

So, the question appear : if you are not entertain, are you at least rewarded for the hours spent farming? Yes and no. Actually, you can't know. Because of rng. And most of the time you ll  say no, because of these ridiculous droprates. 

 

When you start the game it's fine because you miss everything. When you reach  200 hundreds hours playtime, you miss only some weapons/mods that you won't ever see without an incredible amount of luck.

 

So you are asking this question : Is it still worth playing  x hours a day for not being rewarded and not being entertained?

Answer is no and that's why a lot of people (mostly veteran players) ll probably leave the game soon if the mechanics don't change.

 

 

That's why In most mmo's game, AT THIS TIME (i am not talking about wow vanilla ect...), you have some token system. It allows you to get what you need. It often mean hours and days of farming but at least, you know at a certain point, you 'll get something you actually want. It doesn't provide an instant-gratification, it doesn't discourage longevity, it's just a way to be rewarded for the time spent playing. Rng with ridiculous drop rate is an ARTIFICIAL LONGEVITY, nothing more.

 

 

LoL with ip system to get champions is a good exemple on how you can be rewarded for the time spent playing.

In warframe, you can spend hours of farming without knowing if u ll get something valuable or something you want/need (once again, i am not talking for new players with fresh account). So : no entertainment, no rewards, no reasons to keep playing.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Asla

[Excitonex]

You still don't get the point of this topic.

You still don't understand the gap between instant gratification and spending hours of farming without knowing if you ll finally get something or not.

The game is already boring in a long-run.

 

Do you know how human behavior work? No? I'll try to explain it.

 

Why are you playing an online game : 2 Reasons

 

-Entertainment

-Being rewarded ingame

 

I ll keep my exemple with Thunderbolt (could be whatever mod/weapons in the void you are looking for)

 

Are you entertain while bashing hours and hours the same ennemies in the same mission? No you aren't. It's entertaining when you start the game. It doesn't for most of player who reach 200+ hours playtime like me.

So, the question appear : if you are not entertain, are you at least rewarded for the hours spent farming? Yes and no. Actually, you can't know. Because of rng. And most of the time you ll  say no, because of these ridiculous droprates. 

 

When you start the game it's fine because you miss everything. When you reach  200 hundreds hours playtime, you miss only some weapons/mods that you won't ever see without an incredible amount of luck.

 

So you are asking this question : Is it still worth playing  x hours a day for not being rewarded and not being entertained?

Answer is no and that's why a lot of people (mostly veteran players) ll probably leave the game soon if the mechanics don't change.

 

 

That's why In most mmo's game, AT THIS TIME (i am not talking about wow vanilla ect...), you have some token system. It allows you to get what you need. It often mean hours and days of farming but at least, you know at a certain point, you 'll get something you actually want. It doesn't provide an instant-gratification, it doesn't discourage longevity, it's just a way to be rewarded for the time spent playing. Rng with ridiculous drop rate is an ARTIFICIAL LONGEVITY, nothing more.

 

 

LoL with ip system to get champions is a good exemple on how you can be rewarded for the time spent playing.

In warframe, you can spend hours of farming without knowing if u ll get something valuable or something you want/need (once again, i am not talking for new players with fresh account). So : no entertainment, no rewards, no reasons to keep playing.

RNG is just as likely to hand you that item quicker than average as it is to hand it slower than average. So saying that RNG increases longevity is looking at the argument from only one side. I hate token systems because I don't want to be told I need to farm X bosses Y number of times to get Z tokens. There is no difference in the long run but I prefer the chance that I may get lucky.

 

Trying to compare Warframe to LoL is incredibly silly as they are not even remotely similar in play-style or genre. LoL doesn't keep me playing because I can look and see I need to log on every day for an hour a day to get one champion a week and I'm at a huge disadvantage if I don't dump in hundreds of dollars to buy champions. You may think otherwise but I encourage you to try ranked play without all the champions and see if you can hit a competitive rating. But wait, "You can unlock all those champions with thousands of hours of play!" you might say. Well, if that's your argument I urge you to take a second look at the grind in warframe and ask yourself which F2P game really locks you behind a pay-wall?

[Kynian]

You've made it clear that you were living under a rock during the last weekend. As I explicitly stated, some of us exploited hardcore to give people free runs. The exploit consisted of a person with a key making a lobby, and another person, a host, inviting that key-user into their game. This would cause the party to enter the void without using the key-user's key, but by subtracting an imaginary key from the host, giving that person a negative key count.

 

Hosts were not leeching as they were providing free runs to all involved, they did not buy keys with plat, and they did not farm keys from defense missions. The key-user did not consume the key they initially used to enter the void lobby.

 

I really wish people trying to argue things bothered to find out what goes on in the game. You can't have a discussion with someone who's uninformed yet insists on making blanket statements and shortsighted judgments.

Well forgive me for not knowing about this exploit. It's not like it was announced to the four winds.

And by the way, my argument is still valid. Exploits are exactly that - exploits, they shouldn't be there, and will get fixed, if they weren't already. Besides, it's wrong to do it, so even if I had known about it, I wouldn't have considered in my argument. (And yes, although it's wrong, and everyone knows of it being wrong, people still do it nonetheless. Human nature is such an ugly thing - instead of trying to make the game better, they turn to something low like this).

[Kantazo]

You've made it clear that you were living under a rock during the last weekend. As I explicitly stated, some of us exploited hardcore to give people free runs. The exploit consisted of a person with a key making a lobby, and another person, a host, inviting that key-user into their game. This would cause the party to enter the void without using the key-user's key, but by subtracting an imaginary key from the host, giving that person a negative key count.

 

Hosts were not leeching as they were providing free runs to all involved, they did not buy keys with plat, and they did not farm keys from defense missions. The key-user did not consume the key they initially used to enter the void lobby.

 

I really wish people trying to argue things bothered to find out what goes on in the game. You can't have a discussion with someone who's uninformed yet insists on making blanket statements and shortsighted judgments.

So in your book cheating is the way to go?

[Asla]

RNG is just as likely to hand you that item quicker than average as it is to hand it slower than average. So saying that RNG increases longevity is looking at the argument from only one side. I hate token systems because I don't want to be told I need to farm X bosses Y number of times to get Z tokens. There is no difference in the long run but I prefer the chance that I may get lucky.

 

Trying to compare Warframe to LoL is incredibly silly as they are not even remotely similar in play-style or genre. LoL doesn't keep me playing because I can look and see I need to log on every day for an hour a day to get one champion a week and I'm at a huge disadvantage if I don't dump in hundreds of dollars to buy champions. You may think otherwise but I encourage you to try ranked play without all the champions and see if you can hit a competitive rating. But wait, "You can unlock all those champions with thousands of hours of play!" you might say. Well, if that's your argument I urge you to take a second look at the grind in warframe and ask yourself which F2P game really locks you behind a pay-wall?

That's your preference, not the preference of most players.

 

I compare an economic f2p system which has been succesfull. You mentionned legendary weapon in wow vanilla earlier, i could say the same thing for you : Wow and warframe are totally different game, plus, wow wasn't a f2p.

You don't play lol because you probably don't like moba, this kind of game, graphics or whatever, that's the reason why, not because it's too long to get champions. i you really enjoyed the game, you would have play with the free champions rotation during few weeks and then grab those u liked the most, like 90% of player database.

Lol has probably the largest player database int the f2p world and is currently an esport game. There are not point to get every champions. Most of the time, you fill one role (especially in ranked games) and you only need a pull of few champions.

I am currently gold ranked in S3 with not even half of the champion pool, so no, i don't see your point. Lol is purely skill based, dumping hundred of dollars to get a large champion pool faster ll not make you better in game. In contrary, you have to focus on few campions if you want to be better as fast as possible for ranked games.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Asla

[Excitonex]

That's your preference, not the preference of most players.

 

I compare an economic f2p system which has been succesfull. You mentionned legendary weapon in wow vanilla earlier, i could say the same thing for you : Wow and warframe are totally different game, plus, wow wasn't a f2p.

You don't play lol because you probably don't like moba, this kind of game, graphics or whatever, that's the reason why, not because it's too long to get champions.

Lol has probably the larget player database int the f2p world and is currently an esport game. There are not point to get every champions. Most of the time, you fill one role (especially in ranked games) and you only need a pull of few champions.

I am currently gold ranked in S3 with not even half of the champion pull, so no, idon't see your point. Lol ispurely skill based, dumping hundred of dollars to get a large champion faster ll not make you better in game. In contrary, you have to focus on few campions if you want to be better as fast as possible for ranked games.

Gold rank is not competitive, sorry. I'd appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about what I do and do not enjoy without evidence to support your claims.

 

WoW and D3 are comparable to warframe because they are all using RPG elements to distribute the items in-game, unlike LoL where your in-game performance has little to do with how fast you unlock items.

[Asla]

Gold rank is not competitive, sorry. I'd appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about what I do and do not enjoy without evidence to support your claims.

 

WoW and D3 are comparable to warframe because they are all using RPG elements to distribute the items in-game, unlike LoL where your in-game performance has little to do with how fast you unlock items.

Wow i can't talk about lol because i am not diamond, doing lcs and stuff? Sorry bro' I won't do this anymore.

I guess u were quite $&*&*#(%&, but not that much, i am done with you.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Asla