The Controls. Fix Em'. Make Them Responsive.

[Xylia]

Yeah controls are hosed and getting more so all the time. The shift button not doing anything occasionally is a constant source of frustration. There are times when I have to press shift up to 4 times before it starts working. Pressing the "use" keys seems to "reset" it, so I suspect this is probably a rather simple case of a multi-function button not turning on/off all functions correctly. Spacebar is incredibly annoying as well. Why on earth can I hardly ever jump on an incline or decline? I can't even think of a reason for that one. Plus the accidental forward dodges, which really shouldn't even be mapped to spacebar to begin with. Also, last set of updates further screwed up wallrunning again, so at least you don't start wallruns just by pressing shift anymore (like was happening for a while), but now there are all kinds of places where you just can't stick to walls anymore.

 

Please DE, make cleaning up the controls a higher priority.

 

See my reply to TwiceDead.

 

The things you are mentioning in your post just have not been happening to me whatsoever, except for the occasional hiccup with the "Press X to do this" but that's more of a thing where you have to be positioned just right and sometimes the text stays on the screen until you point your reticule at something else that you can interact with.

 

Sometimes I'll sprint, slide, and hit the shift key and I won't get a sprint, but then I've read that they put a short delay in between a slide and your next sprint (probably because of people whining about sprint/slide combos). Ever since I started waiting a sec or two, I haven't seen it happen anywhere near as often.

 

Wall-running? Yeah, sometimes that messes up, I'll agree there. But then it sounds like a complex system that is a nightmare to troubleshoot.

 

The rest? Nope, haven't had any problems with those issues.

 

tl:dr; for both posts:

 

Post what kind of Keyboards and Third-Party Drivers you guys are using; I wonder if it has something to do with drivers interfering with the game.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Xylia

[TisEric]

Then you tell me how it is you've managed to somehow roll when pressing the Spacebar, and somehow in 90 Hours of Playtime, I've not yet had that happen to me a single time?

 

I'd love to know your answer for this. In fact, I asked a friend who has put nearly 150 hours into the game and he says he doesn't remember anytime the Spacebar ever made him roll either.

 

We're both playing the same game, the same build version as it is online and we're forced to play the latest build, what else is different between you and me?

 

Our Computers.

 

Therefore, if your computer is doing something mine isn't, then you're experiencing a software or a hardware problem and it isn't the game's actual code at fault (otherwise my computer would be doing it too, which it isn't).

 

Perhaps the game's code is conflicting with a third-party keyboard driver. What kind of keyboard do you use? Do you use a G12 or something? I use a standard Microsoft Natural, no fancy buttons or drivers.

 

The reason I ask, is because it is FAR more helpful to DE if we try to analyze WHY your Spacebar is causing you to roll instead of yelling "DE FIX THIS!!!!" on the Forums without providing any information whatsoever at all about your computer and/or its drivers or other technical info that might help determine if it is a bug or feature.

 

Clearly, if you hit a button that is supposed to do One Thing and it does something else entirely, that sounds more like a Bug to me.

 

But, as I said, I've NEVER seen this bug happen, so that makes me think it is a software/hardware problem that DE needs to be aware of so they can fix it.

 

well i have.

i do unintentional rolls when pressing space bar on a daily basis in this game.

try to slide jump off a cliff and you will roll , anywhere near rails or ledges  the game feels like not doing a jump and does something else instead or just not do anything.

 

just because you and your friend don't have many issues doesn't mean  other people don't either.

 

as an example  - many  millions of people complain how you tube  doesn't put new videos of your subscribed channels  in the sub box.

i personally never had that happen in 8 years of you tube being  a thing.

so that means people are just making S#&$ up? hell no.

 

this applies to every thing in life.

 

 

as to your "Drivers" suggestion .

i use a 10 maybe 11 year old keyboard i bought at a super market when i was around 10 years old.

it never in that amount of time broke or malfunctioned , never had it been unresponsive in a video game.

but amazingly  in this game i need to  press some button multiple times to achieve a response if any half the god damn time. 

 

 

that is not just me or him, its a god damn issue with the game.

[Flunky]

 

Why shouldn't firing interrupt sprint? You either move in a fluid, dynamic way which requires proper arm movement or you slow down to actually use your gun. Even for hip-fire, the motion and posture required to maintain stability to fire in the general direction you are aiming for excludes running at full force. You can still run at a regular speed and hip-fire. Again, I fail to see how is that a bad mechanic, requires you to think/adapt about where you sprint and how.

 

What other actions interrupt sprint and you think they shouldn't? "any number of other actions" says absolutely nothing.

 

interrupting sprint itself isn't the point of the sprint comments in this thread, it's the fact you have to constantly repress the sprint key after doing minor actions or getting interrupted. holding it down isn't good enough. if you stop to loot a locker, slide under an obstacle, pick up a briefcase, shoot a guy, get knocked down, etc., you have to press it again if you wanna sprint. having it held down the whole time, like in most other games, isn't good enough

 

here's an example. i'm playing around with the forward somersault triggered by double tapping the sprint key while running. if i hold down the sprint key on the second tap, it won't cause me to sprint after the somersault. if i immediately tap->tap->hold the key, three key presses, it won't let me sprint either. there's an arbitrary point in the somersault animation where i'm allowed to press the sprint key again and have it actually work (it's about 70% of the way through). it's the same for the other animations, especially knockdowns where it's pretty damn important. i think holding down the shift key is more than enough to communicate to the game that "i wish to sprint, please let me do it as soon as i'm allowed to"

 

all that might seem like minor stuff but the game puts a huge focus on fast and slick movement, so getting it down tight is pretty damn important. yeah you eventually learn all the stupid little unintuitive quirks, but as i said there are more interesting and less annoying ways to challenge new players than goofy control nonsense. and new players is where this S#&$ is important, everyone else may have figured it out but it's still lame

[HomeyCDawg]

See my reply to TwiceDead.

 

The things you are mentioning in your post just have not been happening to me whatsoever, except for the occasional hiccup with the "Press X to do this" but that's more of a thing where you have to be positioned just right and sometimes the text stays on the screen until you point your reticule at something else that you can interact with.

 

Sometimes I'll sprint, slide, and hit the shift key and I won't get a sprint, but then I've read that they put a short delay in between a slide and your next sprint (probably because of people whining about sprint/slide combos). Ever since I started waiting a sec or two, I haven't seen it happen anywhere near as often.

 

Wall-running? Yeah, sometimes that messes up, I'll agree there. But then it sounds like a complex system that is a nightmare to troubleshoot.

 

The rest? Nope, haven't had any problems with those issues.

 

tl:dr; for both posts:

 

Post what kind of Keyboards and Third-Party Drivers you guys are using; I wonder if it has something to do with drivers interfering with the game.

 

You've never pressed shift to run and had it not run?

You've never done a forward roll when pressing spacebar, or been unable to jump on angled ground?

You've never done a sliding jump and had it do a simple jump instead of the power somersault like it's suppose to?

 

I'm happy for you that you haven't run into these problems, but I really don't know how you've avoided them. Every single person I play with regularly (about 15 active) is quite familiar with these issues, as are countless people on the forums. They happen all the time when you have a very fast paced "in your face" style gameplay that involves a lot of melee, jumping, running, and sliding. It has nothing to do with third party drivers, as I'm using default windows drivers for both mouse and keyboard.

 

No, these are known bugs. You are very lucky (or have a very conservative playstyle) to have not been plagued by them.

[JamnikPucek]

interrupting sprint itself isn't the point of the sprint comments in this thread, it's the fact you have to constantly repress the sprint key after doing minor actions or getting interrupted. holding it down isn't good enough. if you stop to loot a locker, slide under an obstacle, pick up a briefcase, shoot a guy, get knocked down, etc., you have to press it again if you wanna sprint. having it held down the whole time, like in most other games, isn't good enough

 

Yep. You need to be running to start sprinting. You want to automate things that right now require coordination and timing. I see that as a good thing, you obviously don't. We can agree to disagree on the matter, but this does not seem like a bug to me.

 

Most other TPP games use automated animation and a cover system, which makes them look more like the cinematic lightgun shooters of old then actual TPP games. I'm more then happy that WF does not do that and actually makes you do things, even if its coordinating key presses with the animation.

 

here's an example. i'm playing around with the forward somersault triggered by double tapping the sprint key while running. if i hold down the sprint key on the second tap, it won't cause me to sprint after the somersault. if i immediately tap->tap->hold the key, three key presses, it won't let me sprint either. there's an arbitrary point in the somersault animation where i'm allowed to press the sprint key again and have it actually work (it's about 70% of the way through). it's the same for the other animations, especially knockdowns where it's pretty damn important. i think holding down the shift key is more than enough to communicate to the game that "i wish to sprint, please let me do it as soon as i'm allowed to"

 

And that is part of the challenge I talked about. A player that learns to coordinate their key-presses with the animation will retain fluidity. Skill over automation. 

 

all that might seem like minor stuff but the game puts a huge focus on fast and slick movement, so getting it down tight is pretty damn important. yeah you eventually learn all the stupid little unintuitive quirks, but as i said there are more interesting and less annoying ways to challenge new players than goofy control nonsense. and new players is where this S#&$ is important, everyone else may have figured it out but it's still lame

 

How is the idea that you need to be moving to start sprinting unintuitive? How is the idea that you need to coordinate your keypresses unintuitive? How is the idea that letting go of the sprint key at a proper time lets you get better results unintuitive?

 

Its different then automated cover shooters that dominate the TPP market. And yes, the game does favor fluid movement and makes you work to retain said movement. Its not like its rocket science, its coordinating two keys. I dunno, to me it was always a natural part of games like this, that I actually need to put in some basic effort to retain fluidity.

 

In the end, there are some issues that are mentioned earlier, like the auto latching to edges, but lack of automation != unintuitive controls.

 

I guess we can agree to disagree?

 

You've never pressed shift to run and had it not run?

Yep. When I wasn't running at regular speed. I very quickly learned that I actually need to be moving to start sprinting.

 

You've never done a forward roll when pressing spacebar, or been unable to jump on angled ground?

 

No on the first one. I already said, let go of sprint while you are in the air, press down once you touch down again. Providing you are on even ground, you start sprinting again. Yes on the second. When sprinting onto higher angle, you actually end up jumping down from the slope instead of running down in, during which jumping is not possible. This seems to be an issue in the outdoor Corpus areas especially, where its hard to judge how steep a slope is. And that I agree needs work.

 

You've never done a sliding jump and had it do a simple jump instead of the power somersault like it's suppose to?

 

Nope. IIRC power jumps are based on momentum, if you execute them too late in the slide, it won't trigger. Though that one I'd need to take a closer look at.

 

 

I'm happy for you that you haven't run into these problems, but I really don't know how you've avoided them. Every single person I play with regularly (about 15 active) is quite familiar with these issues, as are countless people on the forums. They happen all the time when you have a very fast paced "in your face" style gameplay that involves a lot of melee, jumping, running, and sliding. It has nothing to do with third party drivers, as I'm using default windows drivers for both mouse and keyboard.

No, these are known bugs. You are very lucky (or have a very conservative playstyle) to have not been plagued by them.

 

Bringing out the "all my friends agree with me" cannon isn't helping, nor is it an argument.

[Flunky]

hell yeah we should make the whole game like QWOP http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html to remove automation and raise the skill ceiling

[JamnikPucek]

hell yeah we should make the whole game like QWOP http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html to remove automation and raise the skill ceiling

 

Yep, having to manage two keys at once is totally like QWOP.

 

I'm sure playing the classic Prince of Persia games would blow your mind, since not only it had jump delay, you could actually kill yourself the other way around since you didn't stop immediately from a full run.

[Flunky]

if only the physics in this S#&$ were half as good as prince of persia

[DeadlyNerd]

I wouldn't mind unpredictable movements if they were actually responsive and that my character jumped when I smash my spacebar and not continue sliding just cause it was on a slope.

[JamnikPucek]

if only the physics in this S#&$ were half as good as prince of persia

 

What physics? 

 

We aren't talking about the same game, are we?

 

I wouldn't mind unpredictable movements if they were actually responsive and that my character jumped when I smash my spacebar and not continue sliding just cause it was on a slope.

 

Yeah, slopes tend to get weird in how they interpret player movement , no argument there.

[Flunky]

89 yo

[HomeyCDawg]

@JamnikPucek Why are you even trying to argue against this? It's obvious from your responses that you don't fully understand the issues. We aren't talking about people being unable to jump from not noticing that they slid off the ground, or about doing a forward roll when landing from jumps, or about pressing forward before pressing shift. The issues are things like spacebar making you do a forward roll instead of jumping in the first place, and shift doing nothing for multiple presses regardless of what you pressed first. Why are you continuing to try and claim that they are not issues when they are, in fact, well known bugs that have had many threads about them in the past few months I've been playing?

Edited June 3, 2013 by HomeyCDawg

[JamnikPucek]

On the slide to power jump thing, did some testing and the only time I do not go into a power jump is either if I'm in the air during a slide (as in when sliding of stairs) in which case I power jump just fine once I land or when I do not have enough stamina to do the power jump, in which case I do execute a regular jump.

 

Tesed on various surfaces, but not the Corpus land base, I think it gets wonkier here.

 

We aren't talking about people being unable to jump from not noticing that they slid off the ground, or about doing a forward roll when landing from jumps, or about pressing forward before pressing shift. 

 

Yes, yes we are. This was mentioned several times as a "bug" in this thread.

 

The issues are things like spacebar making you do a forward roll instead of jumping in the first place

 

I agreed that sounds like a bug. Couldn't replicate yet myself.

 

and shift doing nothing for multiple presses regardless of what you pressed first.

 

Argued that it actually does trigger sprint provided you are already running. 

 

Why are you continuing to try and claim that they are not issues when they are, in fact, well known bugs that have had many threads about them in the past few months I've been playing?

 

Some of them are yes. There are other issues discussed here that we are going back and forth about. All of them show up in posts in this very thread among the issues you mentioned. Including the OP.

 

As to why I'm arguing some of those, I did explain that were relevant.

[CrazyCanadian24]

Controls are f**ked. The delay between keypress and in-game action is beyond unacceptable. Keys sometimes preform actions other than what is intended. Wallrunning is borked. End of story. If you can't understand that... I almost feel bad for you. Almost.

Edited June 3, 2013 by CrazyCanadian24

[JamnikPucek]

And as we arrive in the wonderful valley of ad hominem and/or passive aggressiveness I consider the topic exhausted, looks like we've all exhausted actual arguments and even found a few bugs. I'm sure that time will tell which mechanic is intended and which is not.

[Xylia]

Controls are f**ked. The delay between keypress and in-game action is beyond unacceptable. Keys sometimes preform actions other than what is intended. Wallrunning is borked. End of story. If you can't understand that... I almost feel bad for you. Almost.

 

Are you sure your computer is strong enough to play Warframe? How many FPS are you getting?

 

When I hit the button, my character does what I tell them to -- always.

 

But then I get 50-60 FPS when playing Warframe. If you're getting 20-30.... maybe controls start lagging? People have already pointed out that Low FPS = reduced firing rate.

 

Maybe that's part of the problem?

 

And no, I've NEVER done a Roll when trying to Jump. Never.

 

I just solo'd half of Uranus missions and between the 3 tilesets, I've not run into any control issues whatsoever.

[Enlil]

True, jump fails to often. +1

[Clorf]

Man, where were all you guys arguing in favour of bad controls when I made my thread?  If I had known that's all it takes to keep a thread at the top of the boards, I would've made mine a little more incendiary.  

 

Regardless, I can only hope that this or one of the many other threads pointing out similar issues finally catches DE's attention and they decide to put some work into the way the game controls, because it needs it.

[BoompigXD]

MY CONTROLS WORK JUST FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jesus i always knew computers were crap but.... JESUS MY WORK JUST FINE YOU STUPIDS!!!!!!

[10twenty4]

MY CONTROLS WORK JUST FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jesus i always knew computers were crap but.... JESUS MY WORK JUST FINE YOU STUPIDS!!!!!!

"I'm not having this problem so everyone else must be an idiot!"

 

The controls do work, yes. But they're extremely clunky by most standards. Doing anything besides running and shooting requires fighting with the controls. 

[CrazyCanadian24]

"I'm not having this problem so everyone else must be an idiot!"

 

The controls do work, yes. But they're extremely clunky by most standards. Doing anything besides running and shooting requires fighting with the controls. 

 

Looks like his troll was a success.

[Xylia]

"I'm not having this problem so everyone else must be an idiot!"

 

The controls do work, yes. But they're extremely clunky by most standards. Doing anything besides running and shooting requires fighting with the controls. 

 

By "most" standards?

 

Whose exactly are you using the word "most" to describe? Yours? Certainly not mine, nor any of my friends'.

 

If the controls were as bad as some people in this thread let on, then surely, out of thousands of players, we'd hear a LOT more complaining than a couple threads on the forums?

[PuuhBear]

Gonna have to support the OP on this one. Often, when you try to jump off a cliff, you roll instead into the darkness below. It's like you decided "Oh, well, good bye cruel world. But wait, gotta do it in style." It makes no sense.

 

It's true, I play at a low framerate but I've experienced this very often when my computer magically skyrockets to 40 fps.

 

Another key issue I support is fixing of the sprint initiation. It takes FOREVER to begin sprinting, and often screws up wallrun timing. Please, DE this needs a fix.

[Xylia]

Gonna have to support the OP on this one. Often, when you try to jump off a cliff, you roll instead into the darkness below. It's like you decided "Oh, well, good bye cruel world. But wait, gotta do it in style." It makes no sense.

 

It's true, I play at a low framerate but I've experienced this very often when my computer magically skyrockets to 40 fps.

 

Another key issue I support is fixing of the sprint initiation. It takes FOREVER to begin sprinting, and often screws up wallrun timing. Please, DE this needs a fix.

 

"Magically" skyrocketing to 40fps is not the same thing as running 40fps consistent.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the rising and falling framerates is screwing with the input system. Warframe would hardly be the only game that has ever suffered from timing issues.

 

It would, however, explain why my friend and I have had virtually zero of these problems: our computers can run Warframe at a consistent 50+ FPS even in a heated firefight.

 

Oh, OP... try turning Bloom and that other effect (what's that called again? DOA or something?) off. You might get more FPS and better controls.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Xylia

[PuuhBear]

"Magically" skyrocketing to 40fps is not the same thing as running 40fps consistent.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the rising and falling framerates is screwing with the input system. Warframe would hardly be the only game that has ever suffered from timing issues.

 

It would, however, explain why my friend and I have had virtually zero of these problems: our computers can run Warframe at a consistent 50+ FPS even in a heated firefight.

 

Oh, OP... try turning Bloom and that other effect (what's that called again? DOA or something?) off. You might get more FPS and better controls.

By magically skyrocketing, I meant a consistent 40 dps for about 10 seconds. That's enough to kind of equalize the input or whatever. It might have to do with the very shallow slopes on some cliff edges...might be triggering the roll.