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Frost Alt Helmet A Downgrade (If My Math Is Correct)

Snowball

By Snowball,
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NotaCobra

NotaCobra

Posted
Posted

Just for the record OP;

 

In your original post, you gave frost a 60% damage reduction, then gave the frost helmet a 67% damage reduction.

That's about right...

except...

 

The equation you did assumes you're taking 60% of the damage (40% damage reduction).

 

With a 60% damage reduction, you're taking 40% of the damage.

 

 

The formula you had was;

Recipricol of 0.666 = 1.501

effective health = 1.501 X 285 = 427.8

 

What you should have had was;

damage taken = 1-0.666 = 0.334

Recipricol of 0.334 = 2.99

Effective health = 2.99X285 = 852.1

 

 

That's where your maths went wrong.

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Elyan

Elyan

Posted
Posted
This is really a no brainer, Notacobra is right, Aurora is way better:

Without Aurora, without SF:

Base armor: 150

Dmg taken: 0.4

Base health: 100

L30 health: 300

Base effective health: 100/0.4=250

L30 effective health: 300/0.4=750

Effective rejuv: 2.50

 

Without Aurora, with SF:

Dmg taken: 0.241

Base effective health: 100/0.241=415

L30 effective health: 300/0.241=1245

Effective rejuv: 4.15

 

With Aurora, without SF:

Base armor: 200

Dmg taken: 0.333

Base health: 95

L30 health: 285

Base effective health: 95/0.33=288

L30 effective health: 285/0.33=864

Effective rejuv: 3.00

 

With Aurora, with SF:

Dmg taken: 0.192

Base effective health: 95/0.192=495

L30 effective health: 285/0.192=1485

Effective rejuv: 5.21

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Elyan

Elyan

Posted
Posted (edited)

without Aurora, with Vitality 440%, and Steel Fiber 110%:

L30 health: 100*5.4+200=740

L30 effective health: 740/0.241=3071

 

with Aurora, Vitality 440%, and Steel Fiber 110%, you got:

L30 health: (100*5.4+200)*0.95=703

L30 effective health: 703/0.192=3662

Edited by Elyan
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potatofamine

potatofamine

Posted
Posted

Just for the record OP;

 

In your original post, you gave frost a 60% damage reduction, then gave the frost helmet a 67% damage reduction.

That's about right...

except...

 

The equation you did assumes you're taking 60% of the damage (40% damage reduction).

 

With a 60% damage reduction, you're taking 40% of the damage.

 

 

The formula you had was;

Recipricol of 0.666 = 1.501

effective health = 1.501 X 285 = 427.8

 

What you should have had was;

damage taken = 1-0.666 = 0.334

Recipricol of 0.334 = 2.99

Effective health = 2.99X285 = 852.1

 

 

That's where your maths went wrong.

 

Holy F*** I scrolled through this whole topic facepalming the entire time. Thank god at least one person here didn't fail Basic Math.

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Snowball

Snowball

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Posted

Just for the record OP;

 

In your original post, you gave frost a 60% damage reduction, then gave the frost helmet a 67% damage reduction.

That's about right...

except...

 

The equation you did assumes you're taking 60% of the damage (40% damage reduction).

 

With a 60% damage reduction, you're taking 40% of the damage.

 

 

The formula you had was;

Recipricol of 0.666 = 1.501

effective health = 1.501 X 285 = 427.8

 

What you should have had was;

damage taken = 1-0.666 = 0.334

Recipricol of 0.334 = 2.99

Effective health = 2.99X285 = 852.1

 

 

That's where your maths went wrong.

 

You are right. I was using the recipricol of the reduced damage, instead of damage after armour. Thank you very much this has helped me a lot.

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Stupid_Idiot

Stupid_Idiot

Posted
Posted

From what I understand, damage is reduced by armour, and damage reduced by armour is calculated by "Armour/(Armour + 100).

I prefer the following method:

dmg goes to you = 100/(armor+100)  [1- dmg reduction?]

so for a 33% armor| -5% health helmet:

before:  150 armor turns to 40% dmg taken, which 450 health translates to 450/0.4 = 1125 effective health

after:  199.5 armor translates to 33.4% dmg taken, which 427.5 health translates to 1280.36 effective health

with maxed vit, no fiber:

before: 40% dmg taken, at 1110 health it translates to 2775 health

after:  199.5 armor translates to 33.4% dmg taken, which 1054.5 health translates to 3158.2275 effective health

with maxed fiber, no vit:

before: 315 armor => 24.1% dmg taken, at 450 health it translates to 1867.5 effective health

after:  418.5 armor translates to 19.27% dmg taken, which 427.5 health translates to 2218.5 effective health

with maxed fiber, maxed vit:

before: 24.1% dmg taken, at 1110 health it translates to 4606.5 effective health

after:  19.27% dmg taken, which 1054.5.5 health translates to 5472.3.5 effective health

 
every case it has some improvement, it seems
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NotaCobra

NotaCobra

Posted
Posted

So, as concluded, the Aurora Helm is a straight upgrade.  I did the math a few months ago:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/39088-have-i-missed-something-or-is-armor-worthless/page-3#entry444520

 

That thread is useful to discuss the usefulness of SF, btw.

 

I hate  people who quote that thread

 

Because then the forums get full of "Armor is useless! saryn rhino frost underpowered! grr armor"

When the only thing the OP is actually discussing is the value of steel fibre which is a relatively weak mod.

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dierath

dierath

Posted
Posted

a few things after glancing over this topic.

 

Does armor affect elemental dmg (i know it doesn't affect posion)

how about laser dmg?

how about fire dmg?

(i mean this is why they added the elemental dmg resist mods right?)

 

 

these things decrease the value of armor vs hp since vs these types of dmg armor value is 0 while hp is king.

 

Another thing to note is that usually if i see S#&$ has got past my shields and is into my hp im doing anything i can to GTFO and let my shields recharge... and armor does not affect shields (then again neither does hp :P) so i guess thats a bit off topic.

 

personally i see no real benifit in the helmet for frost (have not looked at others) as its more of a trade off than an upgrade, if it gave you the extra armor without taking the extra hp it would be worth it and this discussion would be mute but its not really a straight upgrade its more of a sidegrade if you ask me. you guys can plug away at your math all you want (most of it looked wrong from what i am seeing).

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gell

gell

Posted
Posted (edited)

I hate  people who quote that thread

 

Because then the forums get full of "Armor is useless! saryn rhino frost underpowered! grr armor"

When the only thing the OP is actually discussing is the value of steel fibre which is a relatively weak mod.

 

At least he had a point to link to it (to point out he did the math already months ago).

 

This was a fun thread because I was reading the thread the whole time thinking "I wonder if in this episode of forum drama, if the OP will realize he did his math wrong and has been making himself look like an &#! the whole time." The conclusion was satisfying enough. OP admitted his mistake, and we all agree the Aurora helm has better effective health.

 

Which is probably why helms and stats should not be tied together. Um... hat mods? :S

Edited by gell
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Stupid_Idiot

Stupid_Idiot

Posted
Posted

a few things after glancing over this topic.

 

Does armor affect elemental dmg (i know it doesn't affect posion)

how about laser dmg?

how about fire dmg?

(i mean this is why they added the elemental dmg resist mods right?)

 

 

these things decrease the value of armor vs hp since vs these types of dmg armor value is 0 while hp is king.

 

Another thing to note is that usually if i see S#&$ has got past my shields and is into my hp im doing anything i can to GTFO and let my shields recharge... and armor does not affect shields (then again neither does hp :P) so i guess thats a bit off topic.

 

personally i see no real benifit in the helmet for frost (have not looked at others) as its more of a trade off than an upgrade, if it gave you the extra armor without taking the extra hp it would be worth it and this discussion would be mute but its not really a straight upgrade its more of a sidegrade if you ask me. you guys can plug away at your math all you want (most of it looked wrong from what i am seeing).

I would imagine Armor works in a way similar to how you kill grineer the wrong way.  Perhaps test your laser/fire/poison/ice/whatever guns at them to see how that works

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