Knockdowns.

[lamiadomina]

Knockdowns. Does anybody else feel the current delay in recovering from them is just unreasonably long? In later levels it often seems like getting ground controlled even once can be a death sentence. I for one would be happy if the recovery animation was made much faster, or the player was otherwise given some kind of option to protect themselves when hit by these attacks.

Also, on a related note, I've read a few other users claim that the reach on the shield lancers' shield bash seems longer than it should be. Have many other people had that issue? I main Furax, so I'd previously accepted that my difficulty with them was my own fault for bringing a weapon with poor reach, but it really feels almost impossible to counter their charge attack with it, and I'm not aware of any other good counter that isn't Shock. Fireball can stagger them out of it too but not 100% reliably. I'm praying I finally get a plasma sword blueprint just so I can better counter this single enemy and I'm not sure if that seems entirely right to me - is that just me, or would other players like to see them rebalanced too? Just making them more vulnerable to gunfire during the charge would be fine too. If the player character recovered faster from knockdown I may be able to live with it - but as above, that's something that really needs to happen either way.

[Tetsmeha]

They should just add tech rolling to allow players a chance to recover instantly from falling. That way if you mess it up you get punished more by getting more shock waves.

[NihilisticGoliath]

Yeah, the shield-soldiers usually take out my whole shield with the bash and following barrage, unless I get lucky and they knock me around a corner. I usually try to time a slide-jump just when they're about to reach me - if I time it right, I don't get knocked down and can get a few charge attacks off on them before they can bash again (though, sometimes they seem to be able to bash me immediately after they recover. Not sure why).

I feel that something as advanced as a warframe shouldn't be left laying around the ground by something that isn't helmet-cracking or Warframe-disabling (EMP or somesuch).

[AreWeHuman]

The counter to knockdown is not being where you can be knocked down. At least for now. Personally I don't find that too be too much of a challange and I feel like getting knocked down in a tight spot is a mistake. The effect of mistakes is that you get punished. So it is something that I am ok with balance wise.

On the sheild bash note, It is longer than it appears to be, yes. I have interrupted the charge with melee weapons other than the furax (i normally use furax for now anyway, but my scindo will be up soon). If I'm not mistaken, a headshot will also stagger them mid-charge. I do wish you could jump over charging sheild bashes however. But that appears to be impossible for the moment.

So I agree, sheildbash needs some work, mostly because of sloppy frames, but I don't think knockdown should be less of a big deal. If getting knocked down is a death sentance, then you probably did something pretty wrong.

[lamiadomina]

The counter to knockdown is not being where you can be knocked down. At least for now. Personally I don't find that too be too much of a challange and I feel like getting knocked down in a tight spot is a mistake. The effect of mistakes is that you get punished. So it is something that I am ok with balance wise.

I agree with you in principle, but claiming that it's balanced by definition if the player has any ability to avoid it isn't a meaningful statement. You may as well make shockwave moa instant kills at that point. I don't have a problem with getting punished for getting hit by it (and I've gotten a lot more careful since the first several times I did) but the present implementation still feels excessive to me.

[Mockeryangel]

Yeah I think knockdowns last too long as well, if the situation is a little hairy then there's goes a revive, and shield soldiers have a much longer/wider range than the animation would suggest though it may be lag but I get hit a lot when on my screen they've missed.

[Ronyn]

They should just add tech rolling to allow players a chance to recover instantly from falling. That way if you mess it up you get punished more by getting more shock waves.

thats right brotha!

spread the good word. :)

[Rivy]

I just ran into 4 damn toxic ancients. Once one of them hits you you can never stand up again.

We totally need something that makes knockdowns less punishing !

[lamiadomina]

I don't really like how much Infested seem based on stunlocking in general. There's a reason most games try to avoid giving mobs access to stunlock - it's frustrating and players resent it.

I think I remember that several infested stun moves were nerfed a few patches ago for that reason, which does help, but I think it might have just been a bad idea to build an enemy faction around it as a mechanic to begin with. I've been trying to brainstorm what I would suggest changing the Infested's signature tactic to if not melee stunlock but I don't really have any ideas. Giving them poison and healer units was at least something - I don't think I would really mourn the loss of Disruptors if they were to disappear in the next patch, though.

Anybody? Ideas? If Infested lost their stunlock moves in the next patch what should they get instead to keep their combat style distinct from Grineer and Corpus?

[SigFloyd]

I just ran into 4 damn toxic ancients. Once one of them hits you you can never stand up again.

We totally need something that makes knockdowns less punishing !

Good god. Those shooting claw attacks the ancients do are some of the most frustrating things ever. It's even worse when there's a bunch of them and they fire a salvo at you, keeping you shut down until they feel like not attacking for a moment. Even slowing them down with ice and running behind them doesn't work since the claw can shoot out at any direction regardless of where they're facing.

Also, weren't they supposed to be toned down by now? I still run into groups of them at a time.

Edited January 22, 2013 by SigFloyd

[Rivy]

Also, weren't they supposed to be toned down by now? I still run into groups of them at a time.

That's what I had heard too, but I can't see a difference D: So many ancients spawning at the same time...

[cypherhalo]

Eh, I think the problem is less with the recovery time for knockdowns and more with getting swarmed by multiple enemies with CC. When 3 shockwave MOAs attack you and either sneak up on you or get you in a tight spot, that is when things get frustrating. Some kind of knockdown resistance after getting knocked down once or maybe 2 or 3 times would be nice. It wouldn't have to last forever obviously, but long enough for me to take down the MOAs.

As for the Shield lancers, I don't find them horrendously difficult. Slash dash will cut them right down and if you're with a squad usually someone can get behind them. Also, slashing or shooting them enough usually staggers them and opens them up for a kill. I've been trying out some new warframes so I'll see if I change my mind once I no longer have slash dash to deal with them.

[Malkav]

I don't really like how much Infested seem based on stunlocking in general. There's a reason most games try to avoid giving mobs access to stunlock - it's frustrating and players resent it.

I think I remember that several infested stun moves were nerfed a few patches ago for that reason, which does help, but I think it might have just been a bad idea to build an enemy faction around it as a mechanic to begin with. I've been trying to brainstorm what I would suggest changing the Infested's signature tactic to if not melee stunlock but I don't really have any ideas. Giving them poison and healer units was at least something - I don't think I would really mourn the loss of Disruptors if they were to disappear in the next patch, though.

Anybody? Ideas? If Infested lost their stunlock moves in the next patch what should they get instead to keep their combat style distinct from Grineer and Corpus?

The only thing they need is limmited stamina, like the tenno. Curently they can chase you throught the whole map and without a sprint mod you can't outrun them. Combos can serve you to some point, but the moment you mess up your combo they catch up.

[lilme3333]

As far as knockdowns go I'd like to be able to shoot while on the ground for example when you're in a downed state/being revived, Something like in Metal Gear Solid 4 or resident evil 6. I don't think it would be too too hard since it's already in the game.

[Ronyn]

As far as knockdowns go I'd like to be able to shoot while on the ground for example when you're in a downed state/being revived, Something like in Metal Gear Solid 4 or resident evil 6. I don't think it would be too too hard since it's already in the game.

I've been asking for this as well.

:)

[Ronyn]

The primary answer should be in the capability of the player.

Give us ways to avoid it, recover from it and not be helpless during it...

then the enemies can retain their focus on it without messing up our experiance.

Put the power to counter in our hands and it keeps DE free to make more difficult and varied enemies.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Ronyn

[lamiadomina]

As far as knockdowns go I'd like to be able to shoot while on the ground for example when you're in a downed state/being revived, Something like in Metal Gear Solid 4 or resident evil 6. I don't think it would be too too hard since it's already in the game.

This would be perfectly fine with me.