(XBOX)AjarGman Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Yet Hysteria was connected with berserker and the literary explanation of how berserker is working.; "Berserkers are known for going on a rampage while ignoring and not feeling the damage inflicted upon them while dishing out more as they get angrier." ... "Valkyr ...is closer to not feeling pain." Where i made a reasoning that she feels pain. Except she feels nothing in Hysteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnosticCat Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 It´s not literally. I just find it amusing to use those berserker references from literature for explaining a balance situation in a game with space ninjas so i constructed a reasoning just for fun. May have been inspiration for in game reason for creating this frame - "oh remember those old tales of warriors that are invulnerable while raging like madman why not create frame based on that". Who knows how accurate history is remembered by that time. Then you add void magic and you get to rage while invulnerable, but once rage wears off (power can't sustain it anymore) if all enemies are not dead your wounds come back? Is that any more unbelievable than summoning tentacles made from water and smacking enemies with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidNomade Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Except she feels nothing in Hysteria. So now you explain me how Hysteria is working?^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidNomade Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) Is that any more unbelievable than summoning tentacles made from water and smacking enemies with them? What exactly made you wrote this question? Edited January 20, 2016 by VoidNomade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 The point was overshadowing frames in the same niche. Mag was used as a reference to underline that it´s natural to have a frame that´s best in something. This isn´t so hard to grasp. This is how you justify invulnerability? What don't you understand about her not needing invulnerability to get by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnosticCat Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 He has nigh-invulnerability and it is more balanced than Valkyr's Hysteria. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Defy Mag can still die, so it is not the same thing. I think he can have positive energy inflow from Rage while having invulnerability. I don't think it is more balanced than Hysteria. If all enemies are dead once they enter range on Shield Polarize she can't die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 So now you explain me how Hysteria is working?^^ No one was questioning her as a berserker or how it works. I was explaining to that other Tenno that not feeling any pain doesn't equate to invulnerability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidNomade Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) No one was questioning her as a berserker or how it works. I was explaining to that other Tenno that not feeling any pain doesn't equate to invulnerability. I got that. I just wanted to wrote a not serious remark/correction about what you´ve written. Seems that some people got that too serious and in the wrong throat. I promise to improve. Edited January 20, 2016 by VoidNomade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I think he can have positive energy inflow from Rage while having invulnerability. I don't think it is more balanced than Hysteria. If all enemies are dead once they enter range on Shield Polarize she can't die. He can get energy from Rage and it is not invulnerability. He still takes health damage, procs, and is susceptible to CC. It is more balanced than Hysteria because he is still vulnerable. I'm not saying Defy is perfect but if i were to compare the two, i'd say Hysteria does too much. Can guarantee you that isn't always the case with Mag, some enemies do survive Shield Polarize and ruin her day - you can see it in some sorties. I got that. I just wanted to wrote a not serious remark/correction about what you´ve written. Seems that some people got that too serious and in the wrong throat. I promise to improve. There is nothing to correct in what i wrote. It is a fact that not feeling any pain doesn't mean you're invulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidNomade Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 There is nothing to correct in what i wrote. It is a fact that not feeling any pain doesn't mean you're invulnerable. Being invulnerable vice versa doesn´t mean you´re not able to feel any pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnosticCat Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 He can get energy from Rage and it is not invulnerability. He still takes health damage, procs, and is susceptible to CC. It is more balanced than Hysteria because he is still vulnerable. I'm not saying Defy is perfect but if i were to compare the two, i'd say Hysteria does too much. Can guarantee you that isn't always the case with Mag, some enemies do survive Shield Polarize and ruin her day - you can see it in some sorties. He is pain fueled energy generator, as long as you recast your defy in time you are invulnerable as long as he gets damaged. Valkyr at least have to switch out invulnerability to enable pain energy generator. It makes it bit better in my mind. Did not know that he is still affected by procs and CC. Yes, and I see Valkyr die in sorties as well. Does this mean that Valkyr is not invulnerable after all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Being invulnerable vice versa doesn´t mean you´re not able to feel any pain. Not feeling: pain pān/ noun 1. physical suffering or discomfort caused by illness or injury. Does not mean you are: in·vul·ner·a·ble inˈvəln(ə)rəb(ə)l/ adjective impossible to harm or damage. Berserk people felt no pain but they were being damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)AjarGman Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) So... about ideas for a Hysteria change. Duration based health drain that increases health lost while in Hysteria for each continuous minute spent in Hysteria, so the longer it's used per activation the more the Valkyr would need to hit enemies to heal. Give that innate lifestrike more of a reason to be built in to the power. Edit reason: misspelled continuous, silly me Edited January 20, 2016 by (XB1)AjarGman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidNomade Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) Keyword was any damage, thought you would see that. "physical suffering or discomfort caused by illness or injury." What about psychological damage/rephrase: pain? So yeah you can feel pain while you´re being physical invincible. Edited January 20, 2016 by VoidNomade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnosticCat Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Berserk people felt no pain but they were being damaged. Valkyr emits an aura with a radius of 5 meters around her while Hysteria is active, and 30% of the total damage she ignores is stored. If any enemies are within this aura when Hysteria is deactivated, Valkyr will be dealt 25% of all stored damage as Impact damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 He is pain fueled energy generator, as long as you recast your defy in time you are invulnerable as long as he gets damaged. Valkyr at least have to switch out invulnerability to enable pain energy generator. It makes it bit better in my mind. Did not know that he is still affected by procs and CC. Yes, and I see Valkyr die in sorties as well. Does this mean that Valkyr is not invulnerable after all? He loses a chunk of energy and gets less health each time his health reaches zero during Defy. If Wukong does not heal and retoggle, he will die. His worst fear is a mag proc - something Valkyr doesn't have to worry about during Hysteria. If that Valkyr somehow died during Hysteria, she wouldn't be invulnerable but that is impossible, so what point are you trying to make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)AjarGman Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 So... about ideas for a Hysteria change. Duration based health drain that increases health lost while in Hysteria for each continuous minute spent in Hysteria, so the longer it's used per activation the more the Valkyr would need to hit enemies to heal. Give that innate lifestrike more of a reason to be built in to the power. Edit reason: misspelled continuous, silly me Ahem. Before this discussion gets even more off topic. So, you know, a new thread won't need to be made for this exact topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisp Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Dunno about you guys, but I think anything in a game that can be 100% invulnerable 100% of the time (with minimal skill investment against corpus or corrupted) is not balanced however you look at it. It's also redundant - why do I get lifesteal in Hysteria if I'm invincible? You know I'm gonna run with the base 300 health so if something looks at me funny outside of godmode I die anyway. Currently she's the biggest cheese there is to survival missions that works regardless of group composition. People keep saying her damage drops off, but it doesn't drop off more than ANY OTHER WEAPON IN THE GAME so that's a moot point. The melee limitation would work if there were enemise you actually couldn't kill with just melee (that's not the solution) but there aren't, so uh... Biggest issue though is that she's boring to play and the reason she's boring to play is Hysteria. Force yourself into one melee weapon with one stance, forego the use of your other weapons, don't use any of your other skills unless you're drowning in energy, and stop paying attention to survival at all. Perfectly balanced my &#!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 So... about ideas for a Hysteria change. Duration based health drain that increases health lost while in Hysteria for each continuous minute spent in Hysteria, so the longer it's used per activation the more the Valkyr would need to hit enemies to heal. Give that innate lifestrike more of a reason to be built in to the power. Edit reason: misspelled continuous, silly me I had a similar idea. I kinda like yours better though if it means the drain intensifies over time. Keyword was any damage, thought you would see that. "physical suffering or discomfort caused by illness or injury." What about psychological damage/rephrase: pain? So yeah you can feel pain while you´re being physical invincible. Absolutely no one was talking about emotional pain lol. Stop arguing semantics. Valkyr emits an aura with a radius of 5 meters around her while Hysteria is active, and 30% of the total damage she ignores is stored. If any enemies are within this aura when Hysteria is deactivated, Valkyr will be dealt 25% of all stored damage as Impact damage. It's not much of a drawback. A player aware of this mechanic will move out of enemy range before Hysteria deactivates to avoid that damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidNomade Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Absolutely no one was talking about emotional pain lol. Stop arguing semantics. I was. I was talking about that from the very beginning..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)U need 2 stop Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 almost went a day without a Valkyr Thread. I swear she's as infamous now as Mesa was pre-rework. once AGAIN, here are the many downsides to "OP" Valkyr: - she cannot perform ranged attacks while in Hysteria, she is COMPLETELY restricted to melee. - she has no CC or support abilities. - Nullifiers counter Valkyr on Corpus missions, and she's just as vulnerable to those GENUINELY OP Sapping Ospreys, despite her high armour. - Ancient healers still greatly reduce her damage with their buff. chances are you'll run out of energy and get one-hit before you can claw your way through all the infested. - she ends up just being a clutch revive frame towards the end of the third Sortie, if it's a Survival or Defense. seriously, let it go people. she had her rework, she isn't getting touched again. if you don't like her, then don't use her! it really is as simple as that, and I have no idea why people can't comprehend this. if you want to use a frame that can survive, but isn't god-mode, take Wukong. capable of defying death without feeling cheap. She doesnt have a support ability? What are you talking about??? What about the attack speed buff?!?!?! Other then that eyyyyyy i think shes great, not too op. Atleast for corpus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravend Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 She´s remembering the torture she endured or is still enduring and forms the resulting wrath into her berserk mode. Done.^^ Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 She doesnt have a support ability? What are you talking about??? What about the attack speed buff?!?!?! Other then that eyyyyyy i think shes great, not too op. Atleast for corpus. People also forget that her attack speed buff reduces enemy speed. It can go as high as -60% enemy speed with a strength build. It is also possible to get it up to 60 meters, with a duration that will allow you to recast fairly often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BETAOPTICS Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 To be fair, the nature of her powers are in many ways more limiting as well. Sure, that invincibility added with crazy damage is pretty powerful of course. But then it only offers that. Loki with an augment can pretty much make enemy of any level void and null, and it is an indefinitely lasting AoE ability. There are lots of neat things with some Warframes, but perhaps this speaks to the issues of Warframes that do not have these traits at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnosticCat Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 He loses a chunk of energy and gets less health each time his health reaches zero during Defy. If Wukong does not heal and retoggle, he will die. His worst fear is a mag proc - something Valkyr doesn't have to worry about during Hysteria. If that Valkyr somehow died during Hysteria, she wouldn't be invulnerable but that is impossible, so what point are you trying to make? If Valkyr's energy runs out and she doesn't manage to get enough energy to recast Hysteria she will die all the same and rage doesn't work while in Hysteria. So there is still chance to get that mag proc. She does have that armor, but health go down fast in sorties. Mag dying in sorties was proof that Mag is not invulnerable, Valkyr also dies in Sorties. If we consider invulnerability only during powers then Ash would be far worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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