Mod Progressions Should Have Been Anything Instead Of Exponential

[MJ12]

Right now mod progressions are exponential: i.e. it takes 2^(n) duplicate mods, where n is the current level of the mod, to raise a mod to the next level. Exponential progressions create absolute runaway growth. They should be very rarely used, if at all, because they make things at high levels basically impossible to acquire.

 

The people going 'good, you need an endgame goal'? Why should my endgame goal be 'suffer through trillions of RNG chances to get a miniscule boost to my weapon effectiveness'? I mean, in DC Universe Online when I'm doing feats to make myself infinitesimally stronger at least there's an obvious and reliable timer. Also, I still don't need to spend nearly as much time as I would to get a max rank Serration/Hornet Strike.

 

Compare a hypothetical mod function which is based off of the square of the current level (i.e. (n + 1)^2, where n is the current level).

 

Exponential: 1-2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256-512

 

Growth by square: 1-4-9-16-25-36-49-64-81-100-121.

 

Notice that the latter function has a far flatter curve. Although the earlier levels of mods take a bit longer to grind until you get to lv3->4, the later levels are now viable for a casual player to reach... you know, eventually. Instead of taking aeons and aeons.

 

Assuming you are fairly lucky, get 1 mod of the type desired every 10 minutes, and have infinite credits to fuse, it would take 84 hours to raise that single mod under exponential growth to max level from the level below. Total time would be 84 + 42 + 21 + 10.5 + 5.25 ... well over 160 hours of continuous gameplay. For one mod. That's not an 'endgame goal', that's 'practically guarantee the player gets bored and never tries'.

 

However, in the square model, you 'only' need 1210 minutes, or 20 hours of continuous gameplay to go from 10 -> 11 for Hornet Strike, Serration, or the equivalents. 20 hours is a lot. For someone who plays 2 hours a day it's 1 and a half weeks for a single mod. But it's a reachable goal. Furthermore, it makes low-level advancement a more reliable indication of high-level advancement. It's not 'getting to a point where you can tackle high level stuff takes very little time, getting anything more than that takes eons'. It's "getting to the endgame takes a bit, getting maxed out stuff takes a bit more." This is better because it represents the game more fully and honestly instead of the current method.

 

Alternatively, the curve could be made logistic instead of exponential, so it starts flattening out and flattens out around level 6->7 or so. This would also be significantly better. Anything but unbounded exponential growth.

Edited June 6, 2013 by MJ12

[scope007]

The mathematics student in me agree completely exponential time complexities should always be avoided.

+1

[MJ12]

Incidentally I realized this would also happen to fix some of the complaints about how Warframe powers drop so often, because instead of needing 'only' 1+2+4 = 7 copies, you'd need 1+4+9 = 14 copies. Twice as many. Now Warframe powers are far more useful as fusion fodder because you need twice as many of them.

[Meenmu]

Elegantly simply solution to a problem that's been bugging me since this system came out.

[Westmin]

There are few mods that require more than 5 upgrades, but they are important. For that reason, I would say that the logistic model is more appropriate because leveling up to 5 tiers (or 7) really isn't that hard. It's going from 8-9 and 9-10 that becomes a real pain.

[MetalGerbil]

it would be a problem if you could only fuse duplicate mods.

with fusion cores and using other mods as filler its hardly a problem. higher ranked mods also have surprisingly massive benefits for little increase in terms of mod cost.

its not that hard, you can get pretty far ranking to 10 with relative ease and take your time to get the rest.

[SolluxCaptorTA]

Agreed. But your whole "get the needed mod every ten minutes" is flat out ridiculous. But makes an excellent point just as an example.

Though if DE does implement this, I think players who have now suddenly put 4000 mods into fusing their Hornet Strike or whatever up to 8/9/10 should get some kind of reimbursement.

Edit: @Mastergerbil Are you crazy? Sure you can fuse duplicates. I once put 15 Shurikens into ranking up my Redirection. (Rank 5) I barely noticed the bar fill up.

Edited June 6, 2013 by SolluxCaptorTA

[MJ12]

it would be a problem if you could only fuse duplicate mods.

with fusion cores and using other mods as filler its hardly a problem. higher ranked mods also have surprisingly massive benefits for little increase in terms of mod cost.

its not that hard, you can get pretty far ranking to 10 with relative ease and take your time to get the rest.

 

It takes 2 equivalent polarity mods or 4 miscellaneous mods to equal a duplicate.

 

My numbers assumed you were That Guy. The guy who always gets Forma from his Void runs or the parts he needs. The guy who got a Banshee Helmet on his first Xini defense at Wave 5. The guy who got a Chassis on M Prime and a Systems on his next spy mission.

 

The guy who got Thunderbolt 5 minutes after release. You know, the guy who gets exactly what he wants.

 

In reality even with fusing all your found mods you're probably not going to match the time I stated, but rather, take 2-3 times as long.

 

There are people with lv10 mods yes. I'm pretty sure all of them are legacy players who had an absolute ton of Rare 10 fusion cores.

[Kyte]

Edit: @Mastergerbil Are you crazy? Sure you can fuse duplicates. I once put 15 Shurikens into ranking up my Redirection. (Rank 5) I barely noticed the bar fill up.

He meant it'd be a problem if you could only fuse dupes. But since there're fusion cores and whatnot, it's not a problem.

 

Not that I agree, but always good to clarify.

[notlamprey]

I agree with this, but we would need a solution for the pileup of hundreds upon hundreds of mods that happens fairly quickly (and often) for players putting in significant playtime.

Right now, the geometric progression is probably in place because it was a quick and easy way to handle this. Make high-level fusion require seriously girthy amounts of mods for fuel, and you have a tenable (if kludgey and inelegant) solution to mod buildup.

I'd suggest the dev team work on adding interface functionality to let players sort and sell mods by category (e.g. mod levels lower than X, mods with polarity Y, or duplicates). With that done, I think every sane person would agree that a friendlier mod fusion curve just makes sense.

For all we know, this could already be in the pipeline.

Edited June 6, 2013 by notlamprey