Zadir7 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Hello all. During Update 7, i crafted akbolto. I still like it, i have it. In Update 8, DE released Kunai. So, is akbolto underpowered?I compared it with Kunai to see. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Kunai http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Akbolto Comments later. Kunai/Akbolto DMG: 45/25 Fire Rate: 3.3/10 Clip size 10/30 Crit 0%/5% (2.5%?) Reload 0.8/2.5 Polarity 2V/D Both ignores armor. Akbolto is more accurate, but it still isn't sniper pistols. So. Kunai deal almost twice damage. With any mod level, it'll deal more damage. Akbolto isn't ever ulilizing its fire rate. Triple clip size, but it reloads triple as long. Almost no-existing crit chance making ineffective crit chance/crit damage mods on Akbolto, 2 V-polarities is much better than 1 D (Where only freeze/stun can be installed), when you haven't any forma or just crafted a weapon. So is akbolto underpowered, or kunai is too OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angius Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 But Akbolto shoots three times faster, which gives you more DPS.When Kunai is dealing 45 dmg, Akbolto can deal 75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKhaun Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 No, Kunai and Despair are overpowered. The entire game is underpowered if Despair is your benchmark and almost all of it if Kunai are your benchmark. The throwing knives are good at everything, ignore armor, reload in an instant, and have excellent ammunition economy. People try to argue that this is somehow balanced by their flight time and trajectory, but in a game where everything stands still or runs straight at you, that's pretty laughable. When you start using them and feel how consistent that time/trajectory is... it becomes downright hilarious. They are trivially easy to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3leaZ Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 What VKhaun says: Kunai and Despair are overpowered. They already confirmed that they will nerf both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadir7 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 But Akbolto shoots three times faster, which gives you more DPS. When Kunai is dealing 45 dmg, Akbolto can deal 75. By wasting 3 bullets. With same ammo capacity, Kunai will deal 450+(45*210), while Akbolto will deal 750+(25*210). 300 vs 4200 dmg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadir7 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Its crazy, when you're shooting (akbolto), and your bolts is flying UP. Edited June 7, 2013 by Zadir7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixEXO Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) No, Kunai and Despair are overpowered. The entire game is underpowered if Despair is your benchmark and almost all of it if Kunai are your benchmark. The throwing knives are good at everything, ignore armor, reload in an instant, and have excellent ammunition economy. People try to argue that this is somehow balanced by their flight time and trajectory, but in a game where everything stands still or runs straight at you, that's pretty laughable. When you start using them and feel how consistent that time/trajectory is... it becomes downright hilarious. They are trivially easy to use. To prove that bold and underlined sentence wrong, I had an enemy run circles for no apparent reason 30m away from me. Kinda hard to start aiming right because of that and had to go close, to a bunch of Heavies on either side for no apparent reason. Yeah, not exactly correct. By wasting 3 bullets. With same ammo capacity, Kunai will deal 450+(45*210), while Akbolto will deal 750+(25*210). 300 vs 4200 dmg. What Kunai and Despair excel in is not maximum DPS but actually ammo efficiency. Akbolto are the ones excelling in maximum DPS. Obviously, talking unmodded because modded requires a certain intuition on how to maximize the DPS potential and be able to fire as fast with your finger. Edited June 7, 2013 by matrixEXO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadir7 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 ....how to maximize the DPS potential and be able to fire as fast with your finger. This^ If you cant utilize full fire rate, your dps can be even lower than..gm..Kunai's? If akbolto was full-auto, it would be much easier :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixEXO Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) If you cant utilize full fire rate, your dps can be even lower than..gm..Kunai's? If akbolto was full-auto, it would be much easier :D Given how Boltor is a fully-automatic weapon, I'm guessing you want Bolto and Akbolto to be as well, huh. Remember that if the Twin/Ak/Dual has changed, so too must the individual weapon itself. Edited June 7, 2013 by matrixEXO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadir7 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 Given how Boltor is a fully-automatic weapon, I'm guessing you want Bolto and Akbolto to be as well, huh. Remember that if the Twin/Ak/Dual has changed, so too must the individual weapon itself. I didn't say i want, but it would be nice :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elindred Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Kunai are fine. The real problem is how semi-automatic weapon fire rates are dependent on your FPS. A discussion on the matter can be found below: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/58427-fire-rate-on-semi-autos-is-meaningless/ Though I disagree that Kunai's stats need changing, I will agree that it has an unfair advantage from being an automatic weapon. The best solution would be to fix this limiting factor on rate of fire. I think it would also be fair to make Kunai single fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadir7 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 It would also be fair to make Kunai single fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmSNAKE Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) The Kunai or Despair are not overpowered. Adjust them to semi-auto if you wish but their damage values do not beat out Akbolto. If you can't fire fast enough there are two reasons why. 1) your framerate is complete ****, and if this is the case you should either tone down your settings, and if it's not possible then you might look for an upgrade. Harsh thing to say, but it's how it is. In any case this is a technical bug, and Steve already said he is looking into creating a buffer for the button presses so they don't get lost due to framerate drop. Technical bugs shouldn't be accounted for balancing. 2) You can't click fast enough. To remedy this either use a macro, and if you don't want to use an external function to your game, use another button and press both when you fire. You not wanting to do this is your preference or lack of dexterity NOT the gun's fault. I've used both Akbolto and Kunai at extreme levels. Kunai doesn't beat out Akbolto. Akbolto is only slightly better. It's a very minor difference, but saying that Kunai are better is definitely not true. EDIT: I just noticed that Despair deals AP as base. Due to large majority of enemies having higher AP modifiers it would make Despair marginally better than Akbolto. Nothing extremely significant though. This would be on enemies such as Ancients or Grineer. For chargers or such it wouldn't, but chargers were never an issue. Kunai are a direct comparison to Akbolto, and they are marginally worse. Despair is marginally better due to it having base as AP damage. Still this doesn't make a significant gap. It's about ~5% difference between the each on overall dps. Essentially where Despair beats Akbolto the most is where AP modifiers are the largest. The head shots on most things, on medium grineer etc. When it comes to big targets such as Ancients or Heavy grineer (where DPS actually matters), the difference is marginal. Question is how does Despair fair come extreme level enemies. Due to the way damage reistance works in this game Akbolto will lose the bonuses after enemies reach a certain point. For example. Akbolto always deals full damage regardless of modifier (there are some exceptions). This is mostly regarding head shots. With level head shot damage for base will decrease so this means that akbolto will be dealing 50 at start, and eventually go down to 25. What does this mean? It means with extreme high levels (lv 100), on most grineer (not heavy), Akolto will lose out DPS on head shots more than the initial ~5% it had. This is only on head shots. On body it will remain more or less the same for large majority of things. Come ancients and Heavy gunners it will still be a marginal difference. TLDR: -Akbolto is marginally better than Kunai in ALL instances including level scaling. -Despair is better marginally than Akbolto in most instances, with level scaling it will be significantly better on head shots on most enemies, but marginally better on Ancients or heavy Gunners regarding body shots. -Sorry for this many edits if anyone is trying to respond- Edited June 7, 2013 by mmSNAKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mewtiger Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I will be so butt-devastated if the daggers get nerfed. They have such a good feel. Most of my clan stands by Akbolto being top-of-the-line in bullS#&$ technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyNerd Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) To prove that bold and underlined sentence wrong, I had an enemy run circles for no apparent reason 30m away from me. Kinda hard to start aiming right because of that and had to go close, to a bunch of Heavies on either side for no apparent reason. Yeah, not exactly correct. So 1 mob had a glitch in its AI making it take cover at that distance and you deem your argument stands a better chance against his. 30m is a distance where you ignore mobs because they pretty much ignore you and those heavies should'v been your primary target. Also, please don't use heavies as argument either cause, with its armor piercing, a potatoed kunai can down a heavy in several headshots, which are way too easy to score due to absolutely no recoil. He is completely correct, everything on a map will either be standing still behind a cover, or rushing at you. Anything that by some miracle isn't is not worth shooting at. Edited June 7, 2013 by DeadlyNerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) I agree with mmSnake: Excel is a wonderful tool to use when trying to figure out how weapons scale. Some weapons in this game are broken simply because of ammo starvation, the fire rate glitch and the scaling resistance issues. If DE fixes that fire rate glitch it will really change what weapons people think are op. Edited June 7, 2013 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grulos Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Hello all. During Update 7, i crafted akbolto. I still like it, i have it. In Update 8, DE released Kunai. So, is akbolto underpowered?I compared it with Kunai to see. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Kunai http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Akbolto Comments later. Kunai/Akbolto DMG: 45/25 Fire Rate: 3.3/10 Clip size 10/30 Crit 0%/5% (2.5%?) Reload 0.8/2.5 Polarity 2V/D Both ignores armor. Akbolto is more accurate, but it still isn't sniper pistols. So. Kunai deal almost twice damage. With any mod level, it'll deal more damage. Akbolto isn't ever ulilizing its fire rate. Triple clip size, but it reloads triple as long. Almost no-existing crit chance making ineffective crit chance/crit damage mods on Akbolto, 2 V-polarities is much better than 1 D (Where only freeze/stun can be installed), when you haven't any forma or just crafted a weapon. So is akbolto underpowered, or kunai is too OP? Long story short: No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugganatha Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Sure, Despair can OHK mooks on Kiste all day, but Akbolto are sheer DPS monsters. Even with my near max rank Gunslinger mod and max Barrel Diffusion, Despair doesn't beat Akbolto in raw hp munching power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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