less arcade more fun?

[lamiadomina]

Yeah, I think your position and mine fall pretty close to each other then. I could live happy with that.

Edit: To clarify, I would be somewhat less offended if the type of mods a player gets was under player control even if the level and power of mods remained RNG-dependant. There are fundamentally two kinds of item rewards under discussion here, I think - those that grant the player distinct new characteristics that actually change the tactics they play with and those that increase generic statistics without significantly impacting actual playstyle (although in some cases raw numbers can be significant, there - a Snipetron behaves rather differently if it can kill in a headshot or headshot+bodyshot than if it requires multiple headshots, and the validity period of melee becomes very, very questionable if it can't kill in a charge hit or short combo +charge). While I maintain that only particularly shallow gamers are overly excited by the latter, I guess it's fine if the shallowest rewards are tied to the shallowest elements of the gameplay.

It still creates a lot of dangerous potential to either grindlock a lot of later game content or make it accessible only with the fairly limited subset of tactics we currently see people resorting to on Pluto, so that's a problem that will still need to be addressed.

Edited January 24, 2013 by lamiadomina

[Kaiku]

Gah, why did you have to edit your post, I was so satisfied!

I'll just say that this might need actual playtesting to know for sure. Then tweak everything based on the results.

It's hard to say that how well a challenge completing based progression works in this game.

You could compare it to single player games, but I have never played a game what had an infinitely increasing difficulty level.

Would it feel too much like 'artificial difficulty' once the missions or challenges get so hard that there's no way to complete them and thus not making progress into any direction. Or maybe they would require so horribly tedious gameplay styles so that it wouldn't be nowhere near fun anymore. How fustrating would that be?

I don't know, but at least you have played maybe hundreds of hours before getting to this point. So at least you have many hours of fun gameplay on your record and all those awesome feels when you complete a mission what you've been trying to complete for days.

Also, at this point you might decide to switch to a different warframe and weapons, just to get something different for a while.

Or you could go back to play easier missions, just because you consider it being more fun.

Speculations.

[lamiadomina]

That's some of my concern too. The present way enemies level scale tends to mean that in the endgame the player both takes and deals proportionately less damage, which reinforces a narrow subset of very aggressive tactics by reducing the risk they would have implied in the early game and by demanding such just to get kills at all, and I think that's pretty backward. What you're proposing might work better with a very major reworking of the present level scaling math.

[Kaiku]

Usually big enemies that can take more hits usually can deal more damage. So their damage/health ratio is about 1/1

On level 2 their damage/health is 2/2 and so on.

Would be nice for a change to see enemies with more damage, but less hp.

Or less damage, but more hp.

But if they did have more hp and dealt only a bit of damage, it would be booring to fight against such enemy.

Just shooting at it until it dies, while you don't even have to worry about avoiding damage.

For this kind of enemies there should be special skills. Stuns and other cc abilites and maybe teleports etc. so they wouldn't be completely useless. Have this accompanied with those what can deal more damage and we can get an interesting fight.

[DreamHound]

Whoever posted this thread is @(*()$ retard. Please close this thread.

[lamiadomina]

Usually big enemies that can take more hits usually can deal more damage. So their damage/health ratio is about 1/1

On level 2 their damage/health is 2/2 and so on.

Uh, except in the present endgame that is demonstrably not the case? I would be cool with more heavy spawns and the like - possibly expanding the list of support units that make waves of light mobs more dangerous by their presence (Doesn't need to be directly. Whether it's explicitly coded or the result of shifting player focus I note Grineer seem to be notably more aggressive in the presence of heavies).

[Sealgaire]

I really hope they go the route of increasing enemy damage and numbers before increasing HPs for additional challenge. Now that mods scaling at a saner, more predictable rate, they should be able to tweak this much more easily.

[MrWednesday]

They already said that the studio behind Warframe is not a big one, and so they are doing their best for the game.

[lamiadomina]

They already said that the studio behind Warframe is not a big one, and so they are doing their best for the game.

Which is not going to be nearly as good if they develop it in an echo chamber of white knights and never recieve any criticism.

[Zakalwe]

Which is not going to be nearly as good if they develop it in an echo chamber of white knights and never recieve any criticism.

I know I said I was done discussing this, but I have to say something here:

Your critiques are not unique, we've heard them before from many others and they were just as valid then as they are now. Almost every single long standing memeber here has given as much harsh critiuqe as they have praise, and the forums is full of valuable feebdakc pertaining to the flaws in the current state of the game.

Pretty much everything is a placeholder or basic foundation at the moment, and dev feedback indicates they're listening intently to what we have to say.

I have no concerns this game will grow to become something better than the standard grind fest.

[lamiadomina]

I know I said I was done discussing this, but I have to say something here:

Your critiques are not unique, we've heard them before from many others and they were just as valid then as they are now. Almost every single long standing memeber here has given as much harsh critiuqe as they have praise, and the forums is full of valuable feebdakc pertaining to the flaws in the current state of the game.

Pretty much everything is a placeholder or basic foundation at the moment, and dev feedback indicates they're listening intently to what we have to say.

I have no concerns this game will grow to become something better than the standard grind fest.

I sincerely hope it does. There's a great deal I actually like about Warframe. I wouldn't spend my energy critiquing if I didn't think it had potential.

But someone drops in just to tell us not to have feedback because "they're a small team" and are "doing their best," you can't ask me not to take the shot.

Well, I mean, you can ask, but the answer is no.