List Reasons Why You Support/disapprove Of The Cooldown

[Xievie]

I was looking all around and noticed that people were complaining due to the whole slide cooldown thing, but the arguments never got anywhere.
Maybe we could put into a single thread why we support or do not support this cooldown?

Edit: Can't keep updating after 2nd page.

Reasons why the Cooldown is Bad
-I lose a LOT of mobility
-Farming is extra tedious
-There will be a S#&$storm all over the forums.
-It doesn't really do a whole lot to slow down rushers. I've tested this personally, and I am still able to easily rush ahead of most players.(RyojinOrion)
-This game has been advertised as "space ninja" game, hence it should focus on improving fluidity of movement rather than decreasing it(Butyllithium)
-It won't stop rushers. A Loki with a Rush mods will still outrun you and outkill you.(Butyllithium)
-People will still complain that certain warframes such as Loki are rushing(Butyllithium)
-Skill ceiling is gone (Butyllithium)
-People who dont like fast players could have played private, what can people do because of their mobility loss? NOTHING(Venarge)
- It makes it a lot tougher to play defense missions. It's hard to get around the map to defend where I am needed. (fallouthirteen)
-The update is unnecessary. An Ash or Loki could easily speedrun STILL. (fallouthirteen)
-The cooldown does not stop rushers it only makes it a little harder for them.(Tetsmeha)

Reasons why the Cooldown is Good
-less people will Rush
-people will actually fight together in a group rather than going separate ways
-It's more realistic


If we list out why or why not it's a good thing, maybe we can actually get somewhere, maybe see if it was or wasn't a bad idea, rather than aimlessly arguing?

 

It seems that more reasons that people disapprove of this cooldown were found compared to reasons people approved. It seems like it was wiser to not have this cooldown.

 

I'm doing my best to not say this without being bias. I DO disapprove of the cooldown, but I do admit I saw some reasons why there were SOME that approved, but the reasons why it should not be in the game greatly outweigh it.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Andral

[unmog]

Im actually against rushers... but personally I dont mind the cool down, it bugs me that I cant land a jump in a slide. I do like less accidental rolling though. I just wish if you slide that you can pick it up somehow with a sprint. So far if I slide and try sprinting the best I can do is that little roll and then sprint. If I jump from a slide I can't land running either.

Edited June 8, 2013 by unmog

[RyojinOrion]

Another reason why I think it is bad: It doesn't really do a whole lot to slow down rushers. I've tested this personally, and I am still able to easily rush ahead of most players. It is ineffective.

[Butyllithium]

Reasons the cooldown is bad:
-This game has been advertised as "space ninja" game, hence it should focus on improving fluidity of movement rather than decreasing it
-It won't stop rushers. I'll just pick up Loki with rush mod and you'll again be split with me having most kills.
-Skill ceiling is gone.
-People will still whine about me rushing with Loki.
 

[silentdrumr]

Guys has anyone used the sprint toggle to initiate chains yet? I seriously don't understand what everyone is having trouble with. Since they adds the sprint toggle, movement has actually been a lot easier for me. Please tell me that someone at least tried keybinding to sprint toggle before saying anything on forums.

If sprint toggle doesn't help then I honestly have no clue as to what the existing problem is. I seem to be doing everything just fine.

I hope everyone can find a solution either way. Best of luck.

[Butyllithium]

Guys has anyone used the sprint toggle to initiate chains yet? I seriously don't understand what everyone is having trouble with. Since they adds the sprint toggle, movement has actually been a lot easier for me. Please tell me that someone at least tried keybinding to sprint toggle before saying anything on forums.

If sprint toggle doesn't help then I honestly have no clue as to what the existing problem is. I seem to be doing everything just fine.

I hope everyone can find a solution either way. Best of luck.

Sprint toggle doesn't compensate enough to the point of where it was pre-nerf. Atleast not on 1.56 speed Vauban.

[Venarge]

"Reasons why the Cooldown is Bad

-I lose a LOT of mobility

-Farming is extra tedious

-People who dont like fast players could have played private, what can people do because of their mobility loss? NOTHING

[unmog]

Reasons the cooldown is bad:

-This game has been advertised as "space ninja" game, hence it should focus on improving fluidity of movement rather than decreasing it

-It won't stop rushers. I'll just pick up Loki with rush mod and you'll again be split with me having most kills.

-Skill ceiling is gone.

-People will still whine about me rushing with Loki.

 

Exactly... clunky movement commands made intentionally even more clunky doesnt really scream ninja to me. Instead of making controls more responsive it seems they purposefully borked them. I'm all for trying to find solutions for rushers vs explorers. Just this one doesnt actually fix anything, it breaks stuff that was "kinda" working before.

 

Guys has anyone used the sprint toggle to initiate chains yet? I seriously don't understand what everyone is having trouble with. Since they adds the sprint toggle, movement has actually been a lot easier for me. Please tell me that someone at least tried keybinding to sprint toggle before saying anything on forums.

If sprint toggle doesn't help then I honestly have no clue as to what the existing problem is. I seem to be doing everything just fine.

I hope everyone can find a solution either way. Best of luck.

I actually havent tried sprint toggle because you need to double tap sprint to dodge. I should take a second look at the controls though, who knows maybe theres a "dodge" button now. Maybe your suggestion of a sprint toggle will help too. I suggest taking your own advice though and trying it without sprint toggle on as well so you can comment on the two different methods.

[silentdrumr]

Exactly... clunky movement commands made intentionally even more clunky doesnt really scream ninja to me. Instead of making controls more responsive it seems they purposefully borked them. I'm all for trying to find solutions for rushers vs explorers. Just this one doesnt actually fix anything, it breaks stuff that was "kinda" working before.

 

I actually havent tried sprint toggle because you need to double tap sprint to dodge. I should take a second look at the controls though, who knows maybe theres a "dodge" button now. Maybe your suggestion of a sprint toggle will help too. I suggest taking your own advice though and trying it without sprint toggle on as well so you can comment on the two different methods.

Yeah I did and I don't understand why I would limit myself to that type of movement though. I simply left my sprint/roll to shift and keybinded sprint toggle to C. Now when I want to sprint for a long duration or maybe to start a chain, I can just press C and be hands free of shift which is GREAT and much easier. And whenever I want to stop sprinting, I just right click once and I'm back to normal walking speed.

Also I'm sure rolling is triggered by tapping once quickly. I didn't know about it until a friend told me either so I think it's easy to miss since most games out there require you to double tap.

Either way, like stated before, if they give me an option where I can sprint until I run out of stamina without having to use my pinky to hold down shift the entire time, ill go with that :D

[Horus000]

I dont approve of the nerf because it doesnt appropriately address the issue at hand. Penalizing the entire community won't do anything but do exactly what was stated in the initial post 'cause a s***storm'.

 

you'll get a lot more harmony when you seperate the two play styles. i dont need any incentive to be a completionist, i dont need any incentive to be a rusher, i just dont want my movement and combat/survival ability to be hindered, because the developers are too lazy to look at a BETTER solution to the problem.

[fallouthirteen]

Here's probably the number 1 reason I hate it. It makes it a lot tougher to play defense missions. With the slide boost you can easily reinforce a weak side after a bit of a push into one side and you can easily clean up the drops on both sides between waves (try that now on a slow frame). I was just playing Xini as frost and by the time it took me to get from the pod to the left side that Exaclibur was camping and get back, half of the next wave was done.

Another good reason for having the slide boost; it was a player skill based bonus to movement. It made advancing through cleared rooms and such less tedious because you were actively thinking about maintaining the rhythm of the slide boosts.

Lastly, it doesn't do it's intended job. If I wanted to rush I'd play Volt or Excalibur with stamina and rush right now. Then either pop Volt's speed boost or Excalibur's dash move to bypass enemies and leave the slower frames behind. Without slide boosts or slide attacks there's no way they can catch up. Effectively this made it easier for rushers to leave other players behind.

 

Additionally look at some other games. Take Tribes 2 for example. It had a small physics exploit that instead of being patched out was made a pretty big feature of the game, skiing. You also have early FPS games and rocket jumping, Gears of War and wallbouncing, and a number of other examples of developers not fighting against skill based bonuses from small exploits.

[Worira]

Nitpick: The original Tribes had the physics issue that led to skiing, which was then deliberately implemented into Tribes 2.

[Aeshi]

The only people who suffer from this are the slower Warframes who needed that trick in order to not be left behind (and soon, possibly vote-kicked as well), the actual rushers are all using Ghost/Invisibility and fast frames.

 

And to the inevitable person who's going to go "JUST USE RUSH HURRR" I'd like to point out:

 

a) All the other guys are using Rush too

b) A slow Warframe with Rush is still vastly slower than any other Warframe with Rush (and only barely faster than a fast Warframe without Rush)

Edited June 8, 2013 by Aeshi

[fallouthirteen]

Nitpick: The original Tribes had the physics issue that led to skiing, which was then deliberately implemented into Tribes 2.

Makes my point even better. They took the physics exploit and turned it into a full fledged feature in the sequel, because it was good for the game.

[Worira]

Agreed.

[Tetsmeha]

The cooldown does not stop rushers it only makes it a little harder for them. The foal for rushing is to finish the objective as fast as possible, and removing a movement mechanic that was exploited does not remove the incentive to rush. Instead DE should find a solution that encourages exploration and group work without discouraging or punishing rushing.

[Moganic]

The Main reason people just rush is because the game became way too repeative at the end. Why keep "nerf" the gameplay, why not just make a new type of mission that requires u to do an actual ninja thing STEALH, not Hack and slash to the victory misson.

[Butyllithium]

The Main reason people just rush is because the game became way too repeative at the end. Why keep "nerf" the gameplay, why not just make a new type of mission that requires u to do an actual ninja thing STEALH, not Hack and slash to the victory misson.

Couldn't agree more, the only reason I was still playing after first 20 hours of gameplay, was because I could aim for faster times using various methods. Now it's just either grind same missions twice slower or don't play at all.

"We don't want our game to be a grind" - DE on livestream.

[Tangerine]

I don't like it, and really look at where the original complains about slide dashing came from. Mostly super casuals who like to take their time and daddle about like they're in a daisy field. I don't like rushers too sometimes, but please don't ruin the game for everyone else by complaining about the features that genuinely make this game fun because it doesn't pertain to your snails pace.

[Butyllithium]

I don't like it, and really look at where the original complains about slide dashing came from. Mostly super casuals who like to take their time and daddle about like they're in a daisy field. I don't like rushers too sometimes, but please don't ruin the game for everyone else by complaining about the features that genuinely make this game fun because it doesn't pertain to your snails pace.

Exactly. DE should stop listening to casually playing players. Why? Because casual players are casual. They will not invest more than handful of hours into the game. They won't stay in the community for long either, since they will just hop to another game that pertains to their casual tastes more and they certainly don't have a clue about balance either. Best analogy for them would be locust, they come in swarms, rip your beloved game apart, and leave. Please DE, listen to players that are more likely to be playing your game after a year and still investing into it, rather than people who just want quick gratification.

[fallouthirteen]

I don't like it, and really look at where the original complains about slide dashing came from. Mostly super casuals who like to take their time and daddle about like they're in a daisy field. I don't like rushers too sometimes, but please don't ruin the game for everyone else by complaining about the features that genuinely make this game fun because it doesn't pertain to your snails pace.

I've heard it suggested before and I liked the suggestion, show people's mastery levels on the forum. I wouldn't much respect balance and nerf recommendations from someone who's only Mastery 1 or 2 since it shows how little they've tried out in the game.

[Xievie]

Wow, are NO people who support this going to jump in? At the point, if I were DE looking at this, it would seem like it would be more beneficial to revert this change since nobody who supports the change can give a reason why they support it and believe it makes the game better.

[Butyllithium]

Wow, are NO people who support this going to jump in? At the point, if I were DE looking at this, it would seem like it would be more beneficial to revert this change since nobody who supports the change can give a reason why they support it and believe it makes the game better.

Maybe once Steve stops being so arrogant and stops arguing with players about how his choices are superior. (refer to datamining thread for reference)

[ZWarhammer]

Countering all the arguments who think this is a good idea.

1) it does't slow down rushers and with the new toggle sprint option it's even easier to rush!

2) we don't care about your immersion ninja would not sacrifice their movement capability to look cooler!.

3) Stop being selfish and wanting everything your way the world does't spin around you grow the f up!

4) encourage sticking together ? nice joke. Advanced players don't need to stick together this game is already too easy and regarding new players they are the one who wanted this change because they don't know maps and get lost all the time so anytime they get matched with a advanced player they are gonna be in same cup.

IF you want the new player to get used to the game more then stop making us farm 5K ferrite on mercury for every bloody weapon!

Edited June 8, 2013 by ZWarhammer

[Batwing]

It slows down all the slower warframes and makes it so they are forced to use a sprint mod which when maxed is 11 mod slots.And even then faster warframes can do the same and counteract it not fixing the problem.We shouldn't be forced to play some others way just because DE is too lazy to implement something that would make everyone happy.As for it being an exploit it's a parkour game you're meant to use it to attack AND move next thing they'll nerf is the wall run i bet so you don't get a jump at the end.Then it'll be the overall sprint speed itself when will it end ? Seriously put in a tag system for games like "farming boss" "slow run check all loot" "rush rush" and people will play with who they want and how they want instead of coming onto the forums and arguing about how their play style is superior and how the other people should play solo or private.

 

Seriously just take a moment to think about what this game is a ninja flipping sliding slashing action game.Based on smooth/fast movement and attacks.And what did they do ? make it a sticky/slow movement it's not a good idea.If you think it is you have a right to do so but from what I've seen the cons heavily outweigh the pros and most people seem to be against it and to be far this really should have been some kind of vote for this sense DE had to have known this would make the forums burst into flames.