A Possible Kunai Solution W/o A Nerf...

[Bakim0n0]

worst idea ever. 

 

The only good nerf i could think of is lower base damage just a little and fire rate OR more projectile drop but projectile speed is balanced

The latter is the only one that makes sense if they want to keep it as a silent weapon.

That's the thing about them... they *have* to 1 shot stuff or it makes being silent totally pointless. I would prefer to see a steeper projectile fall off or a damage fall off at range 15m+ (personally I am more inclined to the latter) because it makes no sense for them to be almost as strong as the paris on non-crits (which, btw, the paris can have a 50% crit rate while the Kunai / Despair basically don't crit) at all ranges with such a predictable and long range projectile fall off.

At least if you had to close to 15m it would give more of a feel of the paris being for snipe kills and the Kunai being for when you get a bit more up close and personal.

[Sherbniz]

It needs a more noticeable ballistic arc. Throwing Knives need not be a sniping tool.

True true, knife throwing has MUCH more of an arc to it, so it would be appropriate too!

Less of a nerf, more of a skill weapon! :D

However, Kunai are thrown from below, but it arcs up afterwards anyways so it's the same basically.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Sherbniz

[honeybadger]

I dont know what you guys are talking about, the Kunai is super hard to aim with its projectile arc at even medium distances, even more so when the target starts running. Maybe I'm just used to the Braton but that's just my two cents on the matter.

It just takes practice, its not a hitscan. Its only marginally harder to hit a distanced enemy than it is a close enemy with these puppies. Learn the drop off rate and flight time. Use the bottom semi-circle of your reticle as a distance marker.

[Pourvoir]

True true, knife throwing has MUCH more of an arc to it, so it would be appropriate too!

Less of a nerf, more of a skill weapon! :D

However, Kunai are thrown from below, but it arcs up afterwards anyways so it's the same basically.

 

Who cares how "real ninjas" do it.  Real ninjas are obviously not as cool as the ones we see in movies/games/anime.  Hopefully they never throw them like the guy does in that video.  

Also your graph is weird.  y(x)?  I don't understand why you'd use a graph using funky notation like that instead of a function being known as f(x) = y so y(x) is weird to me.  Plus you'd use tanget slopes to find average/current velocities if that's what you're looking for?  I just don't get the point of the graph lol.  I mean why would you want your space super strong crazy ninja to throw them like a human?  Realism + games = boring . . . or call of duty.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Pourvoir

[Diffedge]

I would cut the amount of ammo storable by about half.  I think that would balance it out quite a bit.

[Scyris]

I don't see whats wrong with the kunai/despair. I love my despaire if they nerf them they better damn well refund the potato I put into them, or i'll raise hell. I do admit there are few weapons in the game that are as good as the despair though. Latron is garbage as is the prime compared, most of the primarys are crap compared too, as are the secondaries, alot of the secondaries just quite frankly suck, alot of them are just ammo hoses with no damage potental to back it up which really sucks with pistols 210 max ammo pool before being modded.

 

But when you consider how hard despair can be to get, it should be strong. Kunai however is a tad too strong for being easy as hell to get.

 

If we wanna talk about OP: The Supra, Imagine a Gorgon with a lil over double the damage and you pretty much got the supra. that thing can shred some bosses in less than 2-4 seconds.

 

I also think the mastery req's for the clan weapons should be lowered to 5. It takes forever to hit 7. By then your bored of the game.

[Notso]

I don't see whats wrong with the kunai/despair. I love my despaire if they nerf them they better damn well refund the potato I put into them, or i'll raise hell. I do admit there are few weapons in the game that are as good as the despair though. Latron is garbage as is the prime compared, most of the primarys are crap compared too, as are the secondaries, alot of the secondaries just quite frankly suck, alot of them are just ammo hoses with no damage potental to back it up which really sucks with pistols 210 max ammo pool before being modded.

 

But when you consider how hard despair can be to get, it should be strong. Kunai however is a tad too strong for being easy as hell to get.

 

If we wanna talk about OP: The Supra, Imagine a Gorgon with a lil over double the damage and you pretty much got the supra. that thing can shred some bosses in less than 2-4 seconds.

 

I also think the mastery req's for the clan weapons should be lowered to 5. It takes forever to hit 7. By then your bored of the game.

 

The fact that such a vast majority players don't want to use anything else because of how effective they are compared to all other weapons, even primaries, is what is wrong with them.

[demonaii]

No, making it half of it from 200 to 100 ammo no, I totally disagree. 2nd you can't compare a primary with a secondary weapon that just show how stupid/$&*&*#(%& you are. I just needed to laugh at you because of that. It has a ammo pool of 200 because: 1. Low damage-> modded will increase with with 10+ damage. 2. Firing rate is fast . 3 It was supposed to be a stealth weapon.

Same with Kunai and Dispair..

[Harazard]

a change to Kunai/Despair?Remove Armor Ignore and why?Simple,Kunai outshine most weapons in the game,since when did throwing knives become armor ignore weapon?it's like comparing  a simple knife to pierce through  heavily plated metal without no problems.Also i don't see any lasers or plasma blades on the Kunai or Despair at all they have normal blades.

 

Also increasing the material to craft the Kunai or Despair feels pretty useless,might as well add forma to craft them might make it more hard to craft for some people.

 

Increasing rank requirements  would be pointless,I have seen many rank 9 players so far so increasing it will make it very unfair for pure F2P players to increase their mastery level (RNG is too punishing and explaining would be too long)

[SynisterDoom]

 I think you need to slow down a second. 

 

 Paris, a Silent trait weapon, is a Primary and is supposed to be notable for its ability to take out enemies quietly from far away.

 

 Currently this is pointless, I could make the same shots with the Kunai.

 

 Is this a bit OP? Yeah. I think so. But I don't think the damage or fire rate is the problem. I think it is the fact that the kunai is capable of the ranges that the Paris is good at.

 

 Lowering the damage significantly increases the likliness that you wont kill an enemy fast enough to take advantage of the silent trait because the enemy will notify the room.

 

 Lowering the firing rate wont really help because honestly you'll still be able to spam it.

 

 

 Increasing the 'weight' of the projectile to prevent it from overlapping its counterpart would do the trick. The arc needs to be greater.

all of the agreement.

[MJ12]

So because the Kunai are silent (which allows you to finish a mission at the speed of a snail with the rewards of a rusher if you're a masochist) they should be weaker than other secondaries? This is not how you balance a weapon. The Kunai being a stealth weapon does not make them stronger because stealth in this game is a self-imposed challenge.

Doing so just makes them useless.

Also lol "the kunai are so op". Have you compared them to, say, the Lex? Or considered that they aren't that accurate against moving targets? They're a weapon with high skill ceiling. Of course they'll perform better than weapons with lower skill ceilings because they aren't balanced for scrubs who can't aim.

Let's talk about the Latron/Latron Prime. That's a high skill ceiling weapon because to get any real effect out of it you need to be nailing three headshots a second. It's "balanced" the way you want the kunai to be "balanced". I.e "it absolutely sucks for everyone who can't do that and the players who can could get the same dps with one-tenth the effort". But no, we can't have a high skill ceiling weapon allowed to be good.

No fun allowed. Everyone has to use Bratons and Heks if they want to be optimal. Notice I had no complaints about the Hek nerf besides for the fact that it was throwing the baby out with the bathwater by nerfing all shotguns. Because the Hek didn't have a skill ceiling noticeably higher than every other weapon.

Kunai projectiles are slow and arc. They're not easy to aim. Getting used to it makes it seem easier but I miss a ton of shots I wouldn't with a Lex. In fact because of these traits I rarely go for shots that I would with a Lato or Lex because they're low-odds. Yes, so OP. What, do you guys shove them into the enemy face and claim they're OP?

Because in that case, the Boar is the most OP weapon in the game ever.

[Scyris]

Same here there is alot of shots I miss with my despair that I have no issues hitting with most other normal bullet-type guns like Lex, Latron etc, But is the real question here whether the kunai-type weapons are too strong, or the fact that all the other weapons just aren't nearly as well made.

[neKroMancer]

Same here there is alot of shots I miss with my despair that I have no issues hitting with most other normal bullet-type guns like Lex, Latron etc, But is the real question here whether the kunai-type weapons are too strong, or the fact that all the other weapons just aren't nearly as well made.

Not this again. Buff everything to Kunai level and give armor-ignoring capability will make them good. Imagine Lato or Lex with armor-ignoring bullet, hitscan, no projectile curve at distance - that will break the game and DE can kiss armor mechanic goodbye. Some forumers even tried to calculate the DPS based on firerate and damage but, hilariously, refuse to factor armor damage reduction into the calculation so that they could claimed that Kunai is 4th in DPS among secondaries.

If you feel the weapon is awesome then you need to retrospectively find what makes it awesome. Try to find which aspects make the weapon feel good objectively.

[Gerostalis]

Semi automatic fire really makes more sense for a throwing weapon...

I would do all the following:

Make it semi-automatic (auto makes no sense)

Make the fire rate a bit slower (prevents fast clicking macros from turning it back to a fast auto weep)

Either decrease clip size or increase reload time.

Decrease range dramatically (change trajectory arch as mentioned by others)

Leave the damage alone.

 

That's just outright overkill. I already have my akbolto waiting in my inventory for when something like this happens haha.