Rethinking Ash

[Yargami]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

The problem is that Ash can already instant-kill single targets. That's what his teleport is for. It opens enemies up to finishers. No need to give him another single target damage move.

   Yeah, I actually think the auto-finisher on enemies via teleport might be a little bit too much. My thought on it would be maybe if the enemy is blinded (via the Smoke Grenade or other means) teleport would automatically trigger a finisher, but just being able to teleport and auto-finisher all the time would get spammy (although less so than the current Bladestorm).

[EmptyDevil]

I like everything in this except for the Blade Storm idea and passive. Your Blade Storm idea doesn't really solve it's problem and makes it even easier to nuke on the move. I also prefer for Ash to engage the enemy himself. As for the passive, i'm just not keen on adding more damage to him and more damage on finishers is somewhat pointless.

[Sajochi]

Ok, so a new Augment was added today (5/11/16) that makes teleport perform a finisher when you hit a target, and refunds 50 energy if you get a kill. I still think the free aim teleport should still happen.

And on the subject of Blade Storm, I would like it be more of an assassin, non crowd clearing ability, but it is one of the most recognizable ults in the game. Decreasing the effective range could remedy this, but numbers are always an issue to place since DE has the final say in all changes whether they make them based on community suggestions or not.

[LightstealKnight]

Bladestorm needs a fix, but "clones" are not the answer.  Ash does not clone himself.  It does not fit in with the lore.

What he does do, is move so fast that it looks like there are multiple copies of him.

 

This is what he does rather than clone himself.

 

[Xaentrick]

Not bad ideas in general, though the bladestorm idea makes it less interactive than it already is. Something they are trying fix by making the ability more interactive. Though I honestly think (and have thought this for almost two years) that since he was the first frame with innate weapons. That he should be able to use them as weapons. A lot of people think this would be a good idea, even though others would just call it an exalted blade copy. Copy or not, Ash had an exalted weapon before anyone else and he deserves to use them. 

[Sajochi]

That's the thing, Excalibur has that identity of using an exalted weapon now because of the change. The point I'm trying to make is that we should avoid apparent clones. Sure, Ash had it first, but his ult has always been what it is since release, besides a few numbers changes. It's iconic at this point. To completely change it to something else would recieve extremely mixed feelings: the players who wanted it to be changed would rejoice that Ash got his EB Copy/Single Target Destroyer/Jump in air while auto firing shurikens ult, and the one's that would rather have seen a tuning (I'm in this party) would consider it changing the overall feeling of Ash too much. I'm not trying to convince you to accept the changes I'm proposing, this is more a thought experiment. I'm just asking that we consider options without trying to add features other frames already have. I want to play unique frames with their own play styles, not Excalibur The Game.

[Yargami]

   That's one of the reasons that I suggested just pulling the range in a bit on his ult. I personally would be fine with it being single target, but it would upset a lot of people and destroy a lot of builds that have probably used a lot of Forma. My biggest problem with Bladestorm is not the auto-pilot, my biggest problem is that with the right mods it can cover entire maps.

[swizzybeatzjamz]

I love the rework, I imagine he would be very fun to play. I can imagine sqauds of ash playing together and pressing 4 and there will be clones and mass confusion everywhere. +1

[swizzybeatzjamz]

I like your idea but it seems like it would be frustrating to use  considering this is a hoard game and you would have to press 1 20 times just to get a couple of enemies. If you made banish aoe then it would be over powered.

I think a simple damage reduction while limbo is in rift would do great. And while he is outside the rift he could receive additive damage for every enemy inside of the rift. 

[Sajochi]

7 hours ago, Yargami said:

   That's one of the reasons that I suggested just pulling the range in a bit on his ult. I personally would be fine with it being single target, but it would upset a lot of people and destroy a lot of builds that have probably used a lot of Forma. My biggest problem with Bladestorm is not the auto-pilot, my biggest problem is that with the right mods it can cover entire maps.

I can see how that is an issue. A smaller range seems reasonable, and people usually build mainly power with range or efficiency second. Basically comes down to a focused area with multiple strikes on a few enemies or a decent range ult with one strike per enemy.

12 minutes ago, swizzybeatzjamz said:

I love the rework, I imagine he would be very fun to play. I can imagine sqauds of ash playing together and pressing 4 and there will be clones and mass confusion everywhere. +1

Thank you. I put a lot of thought into these types of things and am always looking at what other people have in mind.

[Aquasurge]

just though of something for smoke screen in the OP. if enemies move in the smoke, then enemies outside the smoke will target the movement instead of ash

[swizzybeatzjamz]

If you did that it would be the same old boring cutscene ability it is now.... Just less range.. I have put forma and an exilus in ash and invested in trickery, and I personally wouldn't mind a total change to ashs ultimate

[furgenender]

the way i see ash is. He is a stealth/assassination frame. he sneaks in killing one at a time.

blade storm should be the oh-crap ability. used when out numbered. it should spawn 3 melay clones of him that jump into the group to kill/distract. while invisible ash goes after

the main targets