Fix For Rushers Vs Looters In One Click

[notionphil]

There are 1001 threads about rushers and afk'ers. Lots of them involve things like XP ranges, vote kicks and other mechanisms which are either complicated or have abusable side effects.  Here's a super easy fix for everyone that can't be abused and lets everyone do their own thing.

 

 

If any one player is more than 2000 Meters (3 large rooms) away from all other players, they get a small prompt under their HUD saying:

 

"You are far from your squad, rejoin them or risk separation"

 

If the player does not return to under 2000M distance within 15 seconds, all players get a small message under their HUD, that doesn't pause the game.

 

"PLAYER1 has separated from your squad, press Backspace to continue on without them"

 

 

If you are the rusher, or AFK er, your message would read

 

"You have separated from your squad, press Backspace to continue on without them"

 

 

If Backspace is pressed by any member of either party, it simply separates PLAYER1 into his own session, where he continues either rushing or AFKing. No one presses Backspace? Everything continues as normal. When you are within 2000 M, the message goes away.

 

Note, this only happens when you're out of range of the entire rest of the party, not just one particular member.  If you guys are all ~2 rooms apart, thats fine, some ppl are slow and some fast.  But if one person is waiting at extraction and you want to chill and loot - Backspace. Or if a guy is already on the boss and you're in room 2 - Backspace.

 

The Backspace prompt would also appear if someone is in the starting area in a def mission.

 

No harm no foul.

 

 

 

Edit - changed from 2+ rooms to 2000M, people seemed to think i was talking about a very short range abusable by abilities like pull and switch teleport.

 

Edit - added warning before Backspace prompt suggested by Tsukinoki

Edited June 14, 2013 by notionphil

[Feldgrep]

Sounds like a lot of host migrations. And so a lot of DCs....

[Tsukinoki]

I honestly think a better, and much simpler solution, would be to add two new options to the online play selector:

-Rusher

-Looter

That way this will happen:

If you want to play online at a normal pace, not rushing super fast yet not breaking every container or sticking around to kill every enemy you switch your game mode to "Online"

If you want to finish the mission as fast as possible set it to "Rusher"

If you want to take your time and kill every enemy, loot every container, explore the full map set it to "Looter"

That would solve all of the problems without needing to include a new mechanic.

It also prevents trolling, unless your option is a "vote" where you need a majority of the group. Otherwise you'll have people hitting backspace as soon as it popups when the guy is just barely outside of that range and not meaning to rush/loot and is heading back to the main group (such as what happens if you are switch teleported outside of that range and a troll hits backspace to kick you from the game).

Edited June 14, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[RyojinOrion]

There are 1001 threads about rushers and afk'ers.

 

So let's create yet another one instead of chiming in in one of the existing threads! Whoo!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mmkay, that being said, your idea isn't too bad, but it doesn't do much of anything to solve the rusher mentality. I mean, it seems to me that people rush because they don't gain anything by not rushing. Positive incentives to not rush would do the entire game a whole lot of good. Also, Rush/Farm/Explore flags would be nice.

Edited June 14, 2013 by RyojinOrion

[Enot83]

Or just allow players to flag in online mode, some different styles of game modes, fast, normal & slow (naming can be changed)

 

The concept behind the OP isn't terrible, but with the way the game handles hosting etc, this could be unnecessary loads where they are not needed, along with more robust data collection for what is currently acquired in each mission etc... It could inadvertantly cause both player to player issues, and hardware problems... not that this should be a reason to say no without further examination, but it should be weighed, since a great deal of additional things must be addressed in the OP's suggestion rather than simply adding flagging to match making.

[notionphil]

I honestly think a better, and much simpler solution, would be to add two new options to the online play selector:

-Rusher

-Looter

That way this will happen:

If you want to play online at a normal pace, not rushing super fast yet not breaking every container or sticking around to kill every enemy you switch your game mode to "Online"

If you want to finish the mission as fast as possible set it to "Rusher"

If you want to take your time and kill every enemy, loot every container, explore the full map set it to "Looter"

That would solve all of the problems without needing to include a new mechanic.

It also prevents trolling, unless your option is a "vote" where you need a majority of the group. Otherwise you'll have people hitting backspace as soon as it popups when the guy is just barely outside of that range and not meaning to rush/loot and is heading back to the main group (such as what happens if you are switch teleported outside of that range and a troll hits backspace to kick you from the game).

 

The problem I suspect is that some (many?) rushers or AFK ers don't care, otherwise they would play solo. They are probably the sort of people who drive in the shoulder around a line of traffic....not realizing everyone else also has to get somewhere by a certain time :)

 

They would just ignore your option and rush in 'online' mode

[Tsukinoki]

@notionphil

It would still be a better idea than your "One person hits backspace and they are kicked".

You would have trolls and rushers hitting it as soon as it popped up, even if it was a grineer commander switch teleporting them outside of that range. That would lead to too much trolling.

Also the netcode for handling host migrations does not work nicely most of the time. So to avoid a server load or crashes caused by being kicked into your own game and then LOSING everything you had gained so far because host migration failed having the online mode options would be a lot better.

[notionphil]

 

So let's create yet another one instead of chiming in in one of the existing threads! Whoo!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mmkay, that being said, your idea isn't too bad, but it doesn't do much of anything to solve the rusher mentality. I mean, it seems to me that people rush because they don't gain anything by not rushing. Positive incentives to not rush would do the entire game a whole lot of good. Also, Rush/Farm/Explore flags would be nice.

 

I try not to hijack a thread with a new suggestion, i'd rather discuss the OP's suggestion and give feedback and critique.

 

Yes, I would love some of those positive incentives too! I'd prefer that than a fix to the rush mechanism. However, if DE wants to simply fix the rush mechanism, I wanted to present a parsimonius idea to do so.

[Enot83]

What is your solution for a mag or loki, who pulls/swaps you and then runs off ahead.

 

Specifically loki swapping you out of an elevator as one example.

[notionphil]

@notionphil

It would still be a better idea than your "One person hits backspace and they are kicked".

You would have trolls and rushers hitting it as soon as it popped up, even if it was a grineer commander switch teleporting them outside of that range. That would lead to too much trolling.

Also the netcode for handling host migrations does not work nicely most of the time. So to avoid a server load or crashes caused by being kicked into your own game and then LOSING everything you had gained so far because host migration failed having the online mode options would be a lot better.

 

I have never disconnected while changing hosts, so didn't think of that as a potential concern or a way to be trolled.

 

Remember, it is 1 person being 3 rooms away from the rest of the group. Grineer commander cannot cause that. Only rushing or AFK will generally cause that. If 3 is too short, maybe it's 4...testing reqd.

[notionphil]

What is your solution for a mag or loki, who pulls/swaps you and then runs off ahead.

 

Specifically loki swapping you out of an elevator as one example.

 

Do you guys know how long 3 rooms is?...lol. Pull and swap would be used within one room. 30, 40m maybe. so maybe they can get 1 room ahead...3 rooms is like 500 meters lol.

 

It could just be a fixed meter number of meters, say 1000. The precise # would have to be tested, the point is if one person is WAYYY away from everyone, the option pops up.

[NitroMidgets]

What is your solution for a mag or loki, who pulls/swaps you and then runs off ahead.

 

Specifically loki swapping you out of an elevator as one example.

I had this happen last night. I simply turned around and headed in the opposite direction. He seemed angry that he then had to wait for the clock to count all the way down. Oh well. At least he has that satisfaction of knowing he got there first, then waited around pointlessly.

[Enot83]

I have never disconnected while changing hosts, so didn't think of that as a potential concern or a way to be trolled.

 

Remember, it is 1 person being 3 rooms away from the rest of the group. Grineer commander cannot cause that. Only rushing or AFK will generally cause that. If 3 is too short, maybe it's 4...testing reqd.

 

This may be a better approach, rather than from the "keep the squad as tight as possible" it becomes the approach of "when you have extraordinary conditions like someone being half way through the map" that when you get these fringe situations something can be done.

 

I had this happen last night. I simply turned around and headed in the opposite direction. He seemed angry that he then had to wait for the clock to count all the way down. Oh well. At least he has that satisfaction of knowing he got there first, then waited around pointlessly.

 

Right my point being that in that situation, that player could with the OP's system, disconnect from you, or you from him, but you've still be griefed, and no problem has really been resolved.  Had there been 2 of his buddies, in the elevator, they would have dropped you and finished the level.  Rather than solving something its potentially created a new problem, and new loads on host migration etc.

 

You can see above I think it just needs further examination as its not that its a terrible idea it just needs to find how it can be implemented best, and then compared to other solutions and or coupled with other solutions to create much better end result.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Enot83

[Tsukinoki]

@notionphil

I have encountred tiles where 3 rooms isn't as far as you think. It depends on the tileset in question and how the tiles are put together. especially if you think to involve the elevators in the ships and how if you are with only a single person they can easily force you outside of that range and hit backspace because they decided not to wait the extra 3 seconds for you to get on the elevator. Its frustrating when you are trying to keep up with someone and they start the elevator as soon as they are in it even if you are only a few feet behind them.

Which leads to another question: Are long elevators in the ship levels counted as a tile or not? If they are someone can run into an elevator room ride the elevator to the top, jump out of that room and rush through the next one before the elevator gets back down to you and then kick you...

But most people have had a lot of issues with host migrations not being able to be completed and dumping them back into the menu (or hanging the entire game) and it could lead to too many things being lost because someone hit backspace at the earliest possibility.

This is not a bad idea. It just needs to be fleshed out and explored/expanded first.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[NitroMidgets]

I have started to only play in private or invite only games with friends and members of my clan. After half of the missions I ran in PUGs last night and this morning there was always one person who wanted to play in a style other then the rest of the group.

[Tsukinoki]

@aerokiss

Then why do the MAJORITY of rushes I have ever come across not kill a single enemy or break a single container unless they have to(Such as a disrupter blocking a door)?

[Enot83]

RUSHER LOOT TOO; WE JUST DO IT A LOT FU.CKING FASTER BECAUSE WE ALREADY KNOW WHAT WE WANT AND WHERE TO LOOK.

This is not helping, good players know that good players who are fast do this, stating so in this manner just makes for an argument and terrible conversation.  This gives a label a bad image which it should not have.

 

I have started to only play in private or invite only games with friends and members of my clan. After half of the missions I ran in PUGs last night and this morning there was always one person who wanted to play in a style other then the rest of the group.

Correct, this is currently the right approach to avoid playing with people you don't want to, as others (myself as well) have suggested, make online play more meaningful with fast/normal/slow flaggings that are used for matchmaking so you can play in online mode and know you will have similar enjoyment to that of in private.

[notionphil]

Right my point being that in that situation, that player could with the OP's system, disconnect from you, or you from him, but you've still be griefed, and no problem has really been resolved.  Had there been 2 of his buddies, in the elevator, they would have dropped you and finished the level.  Rather than solving something its potentially created a new problem, and new loads on host migration etc.

 

You can see above I think it just needs further examination as its not that its a terrible idea it just needs to find how it can be implemented best, and then compared to other solutions and or coupled with other solutions to create much better end result.

 

If crashes are common when switching hosts, the distance would need to be increased to prevent griefing. I wasn't aware those crashes happened.

 

@notionphil

I have encountred tiles where 3 rooms isn't as far as you think.....

 

-elevators-

 

 

I changed the original post to 2000M instead of 3 Rooms, bc of exactly that. I would leave it to DE to decide how to count it (linear distance, pathing distance, absolute distance) but, yea, sometimes rooms can be small.

[NitroMidgets]

hay I'm new. wat r PUGs? ;o

Pick Up Game

[aerokiss]

@aerokiss

Then why do the MAJORITY of rushes I have ever come across not kill a single enemy or break a single container unless they have to(Such as a disrupter blocking a door)?

because they do not seek the contents of those containers. The materials in them mean nothing to them. They want something else... something further within the level...

Edited June 14, 2013 by aerokiss

[RyojinOrion]

I try not to hijack a thread with a new suggestion, i'd rather discuss the OP's suggestion and give feedback and critique.

 

Yes, I would love some of those positive incentives too! I'd prefer that than a fix to the rush mechanism. However, if DE wants to simply fix the rush mechanism, I wanted to present a parsimonius idea to do so.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to hijack this thread. That's why I put the link to another thread in here, so that people can go there and discuss that idea. By all means, continue on this discussion.

[Tsukinoki]

@notionphil

With the changes to 1-2K meters it becomes more bearable. I would love a solution to be able to get rid of rushers when the rest of the group isn't rushing, as well as handle turtles in the opposite case, and I think all ideas can use work which is why I am bringing up some questions and points of contention where this could cause problems/griefing.

I think going for pathing difference would be the best option in this case, skipping the vertical distance covered in elevators because some of them are a bit too long.

I also think giving the player that is falling behind or rushing too far ahead a warning of say 10 or 15 seconds that they are too far away from the rest of the party before giving the option to kick should also be included.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[notionphil]

I also think giving the player that is falling behind or rushing too far ahead a warning of say 10 or 15 seconds that they are too far away from the rest of the party before giving the option to kick should also be included.

 

Awesome idea, adding to orig post

[Enot83]

If crashes are common when switching hosts, the distance would need to be increased to prevent griefing. I wasn't aware those crashes happened.

 

 

I changed the original post to 2000M instead of 3 Rooms, bc of exactly that. I would leave it to DE to decide how to count it (linear distance, pathing distance, absolute distance) but, yea, sometimes rooms can be small.

Your rooms idea isn't terrible btw, think of the 2000m in some of those vertical rooms with tons of ramps etc, you can climb over the wall and drop down quickly while a number of players will still opt to run down all the ramps/elevators. So a condition like that rooms work well, where as the other point of smaller rooms/tilesets it has difficulties being applied.

 

@aerokiss

Then why do the MAJORITY of rushes I have ever come across not kill a single enemy or break a single container unless they have to(Such as a disrupter blocking a door)?         

 

I'd simply like to point out, being a rusher doesn't mean you do not kill any enemies, I've seen slow people so enthralled with opening crates they ignore enemies to go to a crate or locker. Are off on some obscure ledge with a locker they are opening while a teammate is killed.  Bad player behavior is not solely owned by faster players.

 

I would classify myself as a rusher, and I would also venture to say that I probably have more kills per minute on average than the vast majority of players.  Then again perhaps im actually the anomaly, but either way, its more about player behavior than it is about the rate in which you move through a level.

 

 

sometimes you have to be blunt to get through to dull people.. hope u c wat i did thur.

I would be incredibly curious to see your ingame profile :)

Edited June 14, 2013 by Enot83

[Tsukinoki]

@Enot83

I do agree that it does have a lot to do with player behavior there are usually certain play styles that certain behaviors attract. Such as being in a group with 2 other people going through at a normal pace, not killing everything but not skipping over all of the lockers or crates either, and a rusher who simply rushed to the artifact and rushed to extraction getting a kill total of 0 where everyone else had around 30 to 50.

Those are usually the rushers people complain about.

The ones that just run past everything, all the while getting huge groups of mobs to spawn, and get maybe 3 to 7 kills the whole mission while complaining at the rest of the party for being too slow because they have to fight through all of the enemies that the rusher sprinted past.

Im not against rushing UNLESS the person is rushing when the rest of the group doesnt want to.

Im not against turtling/looting/exploring UNLESS the person doing that is doing it when the rest of the group wants to go through at a faster pace.

Im against people joining a public game and then just rushing or looting and ignoring the other 3 people, or worse cussing them out, for not playing the way they want to play.