Rather Than Nerfing A Weapon... Mastery?

[Xievie]

I was thinking, rather than nerfing a weapon, why not raise the mastery requirement of a weapon of, say Kunai to a higher rank rather than nerfing it, then do the same for more weapons?

 

I mean, if a Kunai is just rank 2, I could easily get a Hek at a higher rank and do less.

Leave the overpowered weapons to those with a higher rank. Newer players will get there some day.

 

If my weapon could be obtained just as soon as I could obtain a weapon that is inferior, of course people would choose the stronger one.

Maybe we could just take the stronger weapons and make them require a high rank rather than nerfing them to be on the same level as those around it.

 

Those who work will be rewarded with an advantage over things obtained by those who don't work.

 

---

 

I don't know. Just a friendly suggestion. I don't want to be bashed in the head and told this is a stupid idea. I just want to hear what others thought about this.

 

Not even sure even I want the change either... unless other players want it.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Andral

[Feldgrep]

Sounds like a good idea. Give mastery a point past 4 for the small clans that will take a while to get research done.

[Jeraggerjack]

that would actually be a pretty great idea. Right now the rank system beyond rank 4 is just fluff, there's really no point to it. If the higher performance weapons had rank pre-requisites then it would create a lot more incentive to play the game and get those ranks.

I suspect DE already had plans for this ( Rhino and Hek ) but so far I'm guessing they're not done adding weapons and figuring out what is going to go where.

[Curzyfish]

That's fine and dandy, but that completely ignores the fact that the devs have certain difficulty level in mind.  Just giving something a higher rank because of how powerful it is compared to other weapons / frames means that whatever difficulty it was they intended becomes lost.

 

"Buff enemies" you might say.  Guess what?  Now we need to go back and buff all other weapons which were previously fine as well.  Suddenly, there is quite a bit more work created just because we did not want them to nerf something.

[Xievie]

That's fine and dandy, but that completely ignores the fact that the devs have certain difficulty level in mind.  Just giving something a higher rank because of how powerful it is compared to other weapons / frames means that whatever difficulty it was they intended becomes lost.

 

"Buff enemies" you might say.  Guess what?  Now we need to go back and buff all other weapons which were previously fine as well.  Suddenly, there is quite a bit more work created just because we did not want them to nerf something.

 

While yes, I said that it would make it so that you may not have to buff or nerf some things, but the thing I had in mind was that those who put more time into mastery, dedicating time to this game, should have more access.

 

But yes, buffing enemies may require you to buff some weapons. That will be something that we have to keep in mind.

[BadAimbot]

Let me explain why having weapon power based on Mastery rank and/or difficulty to obtain is a bad idea:

 

1: Weapons that are of a lower Mastery are basically vessels that you use to get to higher ranks. Since these weapons are going to be obsolete eventually it's just pointless busywork to level them up. There's no need to potato them, because they're going to be garbage later on. They are basically wastes of space. Instead, you could just take the weapons out of the game and give the people the better weapons first. Alternatively, you could just make it so the earlier weapons are actually good. Mods are the biggest part of becoming stronger in this game anyway. Don't think that it would provide incentive to level up? Weapons like the Ogris can exist and still be balanced. Plus, every weapon handles differently, and by experimenting with weaponry (which is how leveling Mastery is supposed to work), you get access to more weaponry. Makes sense that way.

 

2: As said before, every weapon handles differently. I love the AkLato. No other weapon in the game feels like it. Right now I'm told that once I can make the AkBolto, my weapon is garbage. AkBolto is a completely different weapon. I shouldn't have to be forced to use it because the AkLato was chosen as a low Mastery weapon. But then how can they make hard to get weapons while still allowing us to use the weapons we like? Prime weapons, of course. Latron Prime has the same stats as the Latron, except the damage and Crit values are slightly higher, which doesn't really change how the weapon handles at all. It also looks prettier.

 

In short the game can still have a good feel of progression while keeping all the weapons balanced with each other. I don't expect it to be perfectly balanced, but it shouldn't be so large that you can flat out tell someone that their weapon sucks because there's another weapon that's so much better.

[CorvanPhoenix]

I like the idea and suggested it myself a few weeks ago.  Way better than nerfing and would make use of the mechanic they already have implemented.  You quickly get past lvl 4 & from then on levelling feels pointless except for epeen measuring.  Though I understand it has a bearing on what one can research in a clan, but I'll never know cause my clan is too small to ever get that far.  Either way if they decide not to nerf anything at all I'd be more than ok with that too.

 

Regarding your post BadAimbot, the answer is not to listen to the guys who tell you your AkLato's will be crap once you get the AkBolto.  I have them both & just because the akbolto does more damage doesn't mean they AkLatos aren't still cool.  The one thing nerfers and such cant see is that every single Tenno weapon in this game is OP.  Every one.  You take out the Mk-1 Braton and you will pwn.  Lvl it a lot, put in a potato, & you will take down any boss in the game.  Are there guns that will do it faster? Yes, sure.  But you can still pwn every enemy just fine with that one gun.  We are Tenno, we are custom made to pwn our enemies.

 

Fk the latest trendy weapon & the stats - if you like a weapon, it's cool & it will pwn - no matter what it looks like compared to others & no matter what the flavour of the month is.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Upvoted.

I'm sick of reading nerf threads.

[Thaumatos]

Mastery rank is not an answer. Time != Power. If that were the case, given enough time you could get a 1000rpm nuke-shooting machine gun. What is the proper time required to unlock that?

It may seem absurd but that's really what you're arguing here. More time invested means more power to the point of game-breaking abilities. "Don't nerf, Mastery."

If something is OP, it needs to be nerfed for the health of the game. Otherwise you'll either be releasing content on its level and re-balancing around it causing all other substitutes to become useless, or you'll end up with all other content being ignored. Even a third option presents itself at this point; constantly upgrading and re-releasing content that requires effort or a purchase from players to achieve outside of what they've already accomplished. This is what players were crying about when they released the ether weapons.

Upvoted.

I'm sick of reading nerf threads.

The only sure way of not ever seeing another nerf thread is to never read game-related forums.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Mastery rank is not an answer. Time != Power. If that were the case, given enough time you could get a 1000rpm nuke-shooting machine gun. What is the proper time required to unlock that?

It may seem absurd but that's really what you're arguing here. More time invested means more power to the point of game-breaking abilities. "Don't nerf, Mastery."

 

Every game with a leveling system pretty much uses "Time = Power".

 

You want to use Weapon X, you need to be level Y with/without a number of points spent in STR, AGI/DEX, VIT...

 

Then, you also have the Pay to Win types where "Money = Time =Power". Of course, this wouldn't be the case here since you can't really pay for Mastery though it will indeed speed up the process if you are rich enough to buy frames and weapons with Platinum then level them for Mastery. 

 

By making the stronger weapons higher up the Mastery chain, we are motivated to get the lower Mastery weapons and also get frames (since they give 2 times the Mastery of the weapons), use them enough to level them up for Mastery points then get the stronger weapons.

 

All the nerfing and buffing issue is gone, since the weapons that need a nerf is now higher up the chain, justifying their greatness, while all the weapons needing a buff is now lower down the chain, justifying their relative weakness.

 

The only balance that needs to be done once this is implemented is to ensure that there will not be too many weapons in each category and thus, some but at least no longer all of the weapons that needed a nerf will be nerfed to be placed in the lower Mastery category (though not likely since not many of them exist) while some (probably a lot though) but not all of the weapons that needed a buff will be buffed and placed in the higher Mastery category.

 

This immediately makes all the work on balancing easier by reducing number of candidates for buff and nerf.

 

It also motivates players to rank up the Mastery chain and in the process, craft/buy and use as many of the weapons and frames that are available.

 

I definitely think this is a good idea.

[AoxxAaron]

Hi, I disagree. How can I downvote? Thanks.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Hi, I disagree. How can I downvote? Thanks.

 

Downvote button has been removed quite a long time ago.

 

It was removed probably due to people downvoting an idea whihc may be benefitial to the longevity of the game, for personal reasons, but nobody will ever know why.

 

Thus, it would greatly benefit the discussion if you could share with us why you disagree with it too.

Edited June 16, 2013 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[AoxxAaron]

Just thought it would be logical to be able to downvote, given upvote.

 

Why? Simply because everyone hates a grinding game where you do the most exp yielding missions over and over again. A better game would be one that tests players on skill and decision-making, rather than doing the same S#&$ over and over again for new frames/weapons/sentinels.

[Curzyfish]

Every game with a leveling system pretty much uses "Time = Power".

 

You want to use Weapon X, you need to be level Y with/without a number of points spent in STR, AGI/DEX, VIT...

 

Then, you also have the Pay to Win types where "Money = Time =Power". Of course, this wouldn't be the case here since you can't really pay for Mastery though it will indeed speed up the process if you are rich enough to buy frames and weapons with Platinum then level them for Mastery. 

 

By making the stronger weapons higher up the Mastery chain, we are motivated to get the lower Mastery weapons and also get frames (since they give 2 times the Mastery of the weapons), use them enough to level them up for Mastery points then get the stronger weapons.

 

All the nerfing and buffing issue is gone, since the weapons that need a nerf is now higher up the chain, justifying their greatness, while all the weapons needing a buff is now lower down the chain, justifying their relative weakness.

 

The only balance that needs to be done once this is implemented is to ensure that there will not be too many weapons in each category and thus, some but at least no longer all of the weapons that needed a nerf will be nerfed to be placed in the lower Mastery category (though not likely since not many of them exist) while some (probably a lot though) but not all of the weapons that needed a buff will be buffed and placed in the higher Mastery category.

 

This immediately makes all the work on balancing easier by reducing number of candidates for buff and nerf.

 

It also motivates players to rank up the Mastery chain and in the process, craft/buy and use as many of the weapons and frames that are available.

 

I definitely think this is a good idea.

 

 

What you are asking for is pretty much in the game already, except it's mostly trivial in its current implementation.  I'm interpreting your post as you basically want higher mastery level requirements (and a couple more tiers).  I'm' not sure i can agree to making the game more grindy than it is in this regard, as it means that people are just going to be trashing weapons once they get higher up, because in a system like this, higher tier weapons pretty much need to be indisputably better in order to make it worthwhile to get there.

 

This can really curb diversity, and while a more diverse selection IS harder to balance, it is also more varied, and (imo) therefore more fun.

[fatpig84]

Boltor, Braton Scindo Gram Orthos etc are certainly anything BUT weak......

 

In fact I consider anything below Tier 4 low because it takes only 2 frames and 9 weapons maxed to hit Tier 4 with xp to spare. 

Edited June 16, 2013 by fatpig84

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Just thought it would be logical to be able to downvote, given upvote.

 

Why? Simply because everyone hates a grinding game where you do the most exp yielding missions over and over again. A better game would be one that tests players on skill and decision-making, rather than doing the same S#&$ over and over again for new frames/weapons/sentinels.

 

I agree that the game currently is definitely a tad too grindy but whether this idea is taken or not, the game will still be grindy as it is.

 

I definitely agree that the gameplay itself should be made to be less of a grind, possibly through the introduction of better enemy AI to make the whole farming process challenging and interesting or reward system but even if this suggestion is implemented, it will not make the game any more grindy than it currently is.

 

The thing is this suggestion is actually already implemented, just not fully.

 

Just look at the Gorgon, Hek and all the clan weapons and you will realise that all of them are Mastery locked.

 

Thus, the suggestion made here is actually just to give certain weapons that are considered very good by the community a justification for their effectiveness by giving them a higher Mastery rank requirement.

 

Of course, some balance will still be needed but as I mentioned in my earlier post, the process of balancing is made shorter and easier as a result of lowering the number of candidates for balance.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

What you are asking for is pretty much in the game already, except it's mostly trivial in its current implementation.  I'm interpreting your post as you basically want higher mastery level requirements (and a couple more tiers).  I'm' not sure i can agree to making the game more grindy than it is in this regard, as it means that people are just going to be trashing weapons once they get higher up, because in a system like this, higher tier weapons pretty much need to be indisputably better in order to make it worthwhile to get there.

 

This can really curb diversity, and while a more diverse selection IS harder to balance, it is also more varied, and (imo) therefore more fun.

 

People trashing weapons is a result of not buying slots for the weapons.

 

If everyone has an infinite number of slots, there is no reason to trash them.

 

Thus, if someone does not wish to buy a weapon just to trash them, pay for 2 weapons slots at 15 Platinum.

 

Of course, whether 15 Platinum for 2 weapon slots or even the need to pay for slots is ridiculous is another discussion altogether.

 

 

 

What I'm actually asking for is for the better weapons whihc people have constantly been calling to be nerfed to be placed at an appropriate Mastery rank requirement to justify them being better than certain weapons.

 

At the same time, weapons which are constantly called for buff can be placed on a lower Mastery rank requirement to justify their relative weakness compared to certain weapons.

 

Of course, after that, there will still need to be some balancing made to ensure that not an excessive amount of weapons will end up in a certain Mastery rank requirement.

 

 

For simplification,

 

imagine there are only 10 weapons.

 

The current system is something like 7 weapons are not Mastery locked. 3 are Mastery locked.

 

Then, there are people complaining how 1 of the 3 Mastery locked items is too OP and should be nerfed when compared to the rest of the items, failing to realise that 7 of them are not even Mastery locked. As a result, DE can either buff all other 9 items or just nerf that 1 item (which seems to be the preferred method based on what has been going on lately)

 

Then, there are also people complaining about how some of the weapons that may or may not be Mastery locked are lackluster compared to the other weapons, again failing to realise that there are 2 categories (in actual fact, I think there are 5 - non-mastery rank (many), rank 2 (kunai), rank 3 (gorgon), rank 4 (hek), rank 7 (supra))

 

Now what I'm hoping this suggestion will do is to move some weapons around and make it more equal for each category in terms of selection.

 

Thus, it would actually make sense to rank up.

 

I mean what's the point of grinding and crafting items or buying items to use so you can rank up Mastery when you get a weapon that is not even better than what you have at the beginning?

 

And should it be better, people will be crying for its nerfs. Thus, why not just give the better weapons their appropriate rank in the Mastery chain to justify their effectiveness?

Edited June 16, 2013 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[Curzyfish]

People trashing weapons is a result of not buying slots for the weapons.

 

If everyone has an infinite number of slots, there is no reason to trash them.

 

Thus, if someone does not wish to buy a weapon just to trash them, pay for 2 weapons slots at 15 Platinum.

 

Of course, whether 15 Platinum for 2 weapon slots or even the need to pay for slots is ridiculous is another discussion altogether.

 

Ok then, lets say the person does have all the slots in the world.  If the tiers were more segregated, and weapons were buffed / nerfed accordingly to create more distinct tiers, what reason is there to use a weapon of tier 2 anymore when a weapon of tier 5 is an outright upgrade? That is what I would prefer to avoid.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Ok then, lets say the person does have all the slots in the world.  If the tiers were more segregated, and weapons were buffed / nerfed accordingly to create more distinct tiers, what reason is there to use a weapon of tier 2 anymore when a weapon of tier 5 is an outright upgrade? That is what I would prefer to avoid.

 

That is an issue of how that "buffed / nerfed accordingly to create more distinct tiers" is done.

 

However, comparing something from Mastery rank 2 to Mastery rank 5 is too much.

 

It is like comparing a level 5 sword to a level 70 sword in another RPG. It takes a lot of Mastery rank point to get from 2 to 5.

 

A player who just uses non-supercharged weapons to play all the way till they get to the higher tiers before they get the better weapons that are higher up the Mastery chain are not gonna be having such an easy time as some people are making it out to be.

 

And if that is easy, then enemies really need to be buffed but that is another discussion altogether.

 

 

However, if we compare say something from rank 4 to rank 5, rank 5 weapons definitely have to be slightly better but not so much to the point that, for eg, they are killing everything in 2 hits while the rank 4 weapons need 7 hits.

 

The gap should not be that huge and some players who have grown attached to their weapons be it due to their looks, the use of a catalyst in them or their feel will still continue using them if the difference in effectiveness is, for eg, the rank 5 kills everything in 2 hits but the rank 4 kills everything in 3 hits.

 

This makes it easier to do balancing since some weapons which are currently considered good will be justified while some that may be considered not so good will also be justified by their new given Mastery rank requirements,

 

Then, the weapons that are in between (which are lesser now after removing the good and bad weapons from selection as candidates for balance) will be the candidates for balancing and placed in their appropriate rank requirements after balancing is done.

Edited June 16, 2013 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[krisp]

I think mastery-locked weapons should exist, but they should offer diversity or specialization instead of power. All weapons should be balanced between themselves, because then you'd be free to make meaningful decisions and tailor your playstyle accordingly. Having a single set of top-tier weapons will only mean that in time, the majority of people will use those weapons. It stagnates the game a bit and renders some choices meaningless where they really shouldn't be. This game has lots of progression systems already, there's no need for weapons to be part of them.

[fatfree]

Mastery rank is not an answer. Time != Power. If that were the case, given enough time you could get a 1000rpm nuke-shooting machine gun. What is the proper time required to unlock that?

It may seem absurd but that's really what you're arguing here. More time invested means more power to the point of game-breaking abilities. "Don't nerf, Mastery."

If something is OP, it needs to be nerfed for the health of the game. Otherwise you'll either be releasing content on its level and re-balancing around it causing all other substitutes to become useless, or you'll end up with all other content being ignored. Even a third option presents itself at this point; constantly upgrading and re-releasing content that requires effort or a purchase from players to achieve outside of what they've already accomplished. This is what players were crying about when they released the ether weapons.

The only sure way of not ever seeing another nerf thread is to never read game-related forums.

 

In any decent PVE game, there is a system of progression, that is what keeps players playing and grinding for better stuff. Warframe is not a PVP game, why should all of the weapons be equally effective? What is the point of playing if that's true? In any decent online game, RPG or not, you're not expected to use the same equipment throughout, and it's silly to think that the stuff you get when you start out should be anywhere near as good as the rarer stuff.

 

I'm not saying that there should be overpowered weapons, but by necessity, some weapons have to be better than others. That's part of what makes PVE games fun, you grind for the best possible equipment. Now I understand people don't want everyone to use the same weapon, which is why I propose a tier system. Weapons of the same tier are equally effective, just of different styles, and those same styles should be in every tier. That way, if you enjoy a certain gun (let's say you like the Lato), you'll be able to upgrade to a gun that is effectively a Lato-MK2, a gun that may not have the same stats, but handles essentially the same and is viable in the "end-game." The point is not to make every single gun viable, but make a variation of every single type that is viable in some way.

 

Games like this should reward progression, not specialization. If all weapons are equally effective, why should you ever switch to something else? At least in my system, you would be trading up for a better version of the same gun.

 

Edit: I realize it looks like I'm saying that there should be a direct upgrade path, something like Lato --> Lato MK2 --> Lato MK3; that is not what I am saying. I am saying that there should be guns in each tier that fulfill very similar roles. They should have different names and different looks (to keep the game from getting boring) but fill the same niche. For example, I've encountered a lot of people that like the MK1 Braton's unique balanced stats and want a similar gun to fulfill their needs for higher level missions, but there aren't any. My solution would ensure that no matter what style of gun you like, there will be something for you, and additionally there will be some semblance of progression (which, in my opinion, is a good thing).

Edited June 16, 2013 by fatfree

[krisp]

In any decent PVE game, there is a system of progression, that is what keeps players playing and grinding for better stuff. Warframe is not a PVP game, why should all of the weapons be equally effective? What is the point of playing if that's true? In any decent online game, RPG or not, you're not expected to use the same equipment throughout, and it's silly to think that the stuff you get when you start out should be anywhere near as good as the rarer stuff.

 

I'm not saying that there should be overpowered weapons, but by necessity, some weapons have to be better than others. That's part of what makes PVE games fun, you grind for the best possible equipment. Now I understand people don't want everyone to use the same weapon, which is why I propose a tier system. Weapons of the same tier are equally effective, just of different styles, and those same styles should be in every tier. That way, if you enjoy a certain gun (let's say you like the Lato), you'll be able to upgrade to a gun that is effectively a Lato-MK2, a gun that may not have the same stats, but handles essentially the same and is viable in the "end-game." The point is not to make every single gun viable, but make a variation of every single type that is viable in some way.

 

Games like this should reward progression, not specialization. If all weapons are equally effective, why should you ever switch to something else? At least in my system, you would be trading up for a better version of the same gun.

 

Edit: I realize it looks like I'm saying that there should be a direct upgrade path, something like Lato --> Lato MK2 --> Lato MK3; that is not what I am saying. I am saying that there should be guns in each tier that fulfill very similar roles. They should have different names and different looks (to keep the game from getting boring) but fill the same niche. For example, I've encountered a lot of people that like the MK1 Braton's unique balanced stats and want a similar gun to fulfill their needs for higher level missions, but there isn't any. My solution would ensure that no matter what style of gun you like, there will be something for you, and additionally there will be some semblance of progression (which, in my opinion, is a good thing).

It is not necessary for a PvE game to have a gear progression system at all. We already have mods mastery ranks, and forma. Warframe is already so far from a gear progression system that switching to it all of a sudden will hurt its internal balance. Mastery ranks should award something, but not necessarily more powerful weapons.

Imagine if the same idea you propose was applied to warframes. If Excalibur was one of the weakest warframes and, say, Rhino was much better in every regard. Since Rhino plays differently, if you like Excalibur's playstyle you're forced to suck it up and do what everyone does to be competitive. Diminishing player choice is not something you want to do when you already have working systems in place. It's the same for weapons: if I like how the Latron plays, why should I need to get the Supra or Ogris and not be just as effective with my semi-auto?

 

As for "why would you ever switch to something else", there's already an incentive to level up different weapons, it just has to have meaningful rewards added to it. And even if there wasn't, I don't see the gigantic problem in allowing a player to stick to his starter gear if he so chooses. For a lot of people, that might make the game more enjoyable. But I can assure you that the majority will want new and exciting things, and there's no need for them to be categorically more powerful for people to seek them out.

Edited June 16, 2013 by krisp

[fatfree]

It is not necessary for a PvE game to have a gear progression system at all. We already have mods mastery ranks, and forma. Warframe is already so far from a gear progression system that switching to it all of a sudden will hurt its internal balance. Mastery ranks should award something, but not necessarily more powerful weapons.

Imagine if the same idea you propose was applied to warframes. If Excalibur was one of the weakest warframes and, say, Rhino was much better in every regard. Diminishing player choice is not something you want to do when you already have working systems in place.

 

As for "why would you ever switch to something else", there's already an incentive to level up different weapons, it just has to have meaningful rewards added to it. And even if there wasn't, I don't see the gigantic problem in allowing a player to stick to his starter gear if he so chooses. For a lot of people, that might make the game more enjoyable. But I can assure you that the majority will want new and exciting things, and there's no need for them to be categorically more powerful for people to seek them out.

 

Mastery ranks do essentially nothing at this point, and mods are maxed out incredibly quickly compared to the rate at which you acquire weapons. And forma is yet another reason to stick with only one gun and not progress to anything new. How are any of these valid forms of progression?

 

The game is stagnant, it get boring very quickly, because there's very little point in getting new guns when your current guns are already perfectly powerful with your high level mods. I have approximately 75 hours on my account, and at this point I feel like I have seen everything the game has to offer. My past few days I have just been logging in daily for the reward (for the chance to get a potato, no matter how small the chance), and not even playing.

[krisp]

Mastery ranks do essentially nothing at this point, and mods are maxed out incredibly quickly compared to the rate at which you acquire weapons. And forma is yet another reason to stick with only one gun and not progress to anything new. How are any of these valid forms of progression?

 

The game is stagnant, it get boring very quickly, because there's very little point in getting new guns when your current guns are already perfectly powerful with your high level mods. I have approximately 75 hours on my account, and at this point I feel like I have seen everything the game has to offer. My past few days I have just been logging in daily for the reward (for the chance to get a potato, no matter how small the chance), and not even playing.

And how in the world would leaving all your old guns behind when you get your shiny brand new god-tier benefit the game in any way, shape or form.

The game still needs an endgame, that's clear. Weapon progression, however, is not the endgame people want nor what "makes this game fun".

 

Forma is certainly a valid form of progression. It's made me play over the past 2 days trying to level up my Snipetron, and I've still got 2 more slots to polarize before I can max it. It's increased my power and made me play for a while, which is exactly what progression systems have to do. The difference is that with Forma I can CHOOSE what I want to be powerful, instead of it being dictated by the game.

Same for mods. If anything there need to be more 10-rank mods along with an increase in fusion core drops at higher enemy levels. And don't tell me you maxed *all* of your mods in 75 hours.

[fatfree]

And how in the world would leaving all your old guns behind when you get your shiny brand new god-tier benefit the game in any way, shape or form.

The game still needs an endgame, that's clear. Weapon progression, however, is not the endgame people want nor what "makes this game fun".

 

Forma is certainly a valid form of progression. It's made me play over the past 2 days trying to level up my Snipetron, and I've still got 2 more slots to polarize before I can max it. It's increased my power and made me play for a while, which is exactly what progression systems have to do. The difference is that with Forma I can CHOOSE what I want to be powerful, instead of it being dictated by the game.

Same for mods. If anything there need to be more 10-rank mods along with an increase in fusion core drops at higher enemy levels. And don't tell me you maxed *all* of your mods in 75 hours.

 

It would benefit the game by encouraging players to go for the next big thing, to keep becoming more powerful. Have you ever played an MMO before?

 

And with the Forma, you just further proved my point.... you're just grinding the same weapon over and over again, and the game is facilitating that with this feature. Why would you switch to another weapon when you can just keep using forma on your favorite gun and grinding over and over and over again with the exact same weaponry? That's incredibly boring for me.

 

Also, no, I haven't maxed all of my mods, but I've maxed most of the ones that matter, and gotten the others to a high enough level to where I need them. At this point in the game, there is no point in completely maxing out Serration or Hornet Strike.

Edited June 16, 2013 by fatfree