Why Puncture Mods Should Work On Snow Globe

[Klyern]

There are four reasons why puncture should work on Snow Globe.

 

First, whenever you are playing a defense and a frost drops a globe on a pod, whether its a mistake or its the correct move at the time, it prevents people who are afar from shooting inside and otherwise saving the pod, this could be atributted to a mistake but it could also cause griefing, having puncture work on Snow Globes would work this out without nerfing or modifying Snow Globe's values.

 

Second, puncture is almost useless, people would rather use the slot where puncture would go to put anything else, even max ammo mods are more alluring at present when compared to puncture's usefulness, this would give puncture one more use, one that would be worthwhile to consider when modding your guns whether for pvp or pve.

 

Third, puncture mods have some of the highest mod costs, so it shouldnt render frost useless in pvp, but rather bring balance to it, my dojo is filled with frosts, about 9 out of 10 people keep frost on all the time just to abuse the Snow Globe because its so op in pvp that it overpowers other warframes entirely just because of one single ability, what good is pvp if there is a gamebreaking agent that is so common and easily obtained that it takes the fun as well as the excitement out of it? yes sure you might argue differently after i post this but how exactly is everyone having the same warframe exciting? Even LoL abdicates that it isnt, thats why ranked is draft mode and why you cant have clones in draft mode. Im not saying be LoL, im saying dont be Frostframe.

 

Fourth, its logical, the bullets dont disapear into a void like if it was one of Vauban's powers, they seem to hit a solid surface, puncture should work on it then, maybe its considered a cushion effect like sand, but it sounds and looks like its hitting something solid like ice probably and not snow... plus this shouldnt count as a nerf, probably a rework in pvp, and a buff in pve, but its not definitely not a nerf since if people dont equip puncture it will still work as usual.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Klyern

[iPrevenge]

I didn't even have to read your reasons, I already agree that puncture should work on Snow Globe. 

[Tsukinoki]

One thing you have to consider is how thick is the snowglobes skin? Depending on how thick it is letting puncture work may not do anything to affect its power, what with how small of a amount you can actually puncture in this game.

Second, PvP is not the focus of warframe and its not balanced at all nor are they really talking about balancing it. And Vauban or Trinity are far better than Frost in PvP because of Bastille and Link respectively.

Third, Frost is useful in defense missions because of snowglobe but you dont see him in overwhelming numbers outside of those missions most of the time. You see him occasionally but no where near enough to even think "Frostframe".

Fourth, puncture is universally useless outside of a few very specific times, such as using a puncture shotgun on all the enemies trapped in Vaubans vortex, and even if it did puncture peoples snowglobes you wouldn't see it being used unless they buff puncture in other ways.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[SleepingGuy]

One thing you have to consider is how thick is the snowglobes skin? Depending on how thick it is letting puncture work may not do anything to affect its power, what with how small of a amount you can actually puncture in this game.

Second, PvP is not the focus of warframe and its not balanced at all nor are they really talking about balancing it. And Vauban or Trinity are far better than Frost in PvP because of Bastille and Link respectively.

Third, Frost is useful in defense missions because of snowglobe but you dont see him in overwhelming numbers outside of those missions most of the time. You see him occasionally but no where near enough to even think "Frostframe".

Fourth, puncture is universally useless outside of a few very specific times, such as using a puncture shotgun on all the enemies trapped in Vaubans vortex, and even if it did puncture peoples snowglobes you wouldn't see it being used unless they buff puncture in other ways.

This. Snow Globe already take's my FPS For a run. 

PvP Is only for fun within Clan Members.

Well Good Luck with your Suggestion Somewhat.

*Shudders At a chance of a Snow Globe Spam in WF*

[Klyern]

One thing you have to consider is how thick is the snowglobes skin? Depending on how thick it is letting puncture work may not do anything to affect its power, what with how small of a amount you can actually puncture in this game.

Second, PvP is not the focus of warframe and its not balanced at all nor are they really talking about balancing it. And Vauban or Trinity are far better than Frost in PvP because of Bastille and Link respectively.

Third, Frost is useful in defense missions because of snowglobe but you dont see him in overwhelming numbers outside of those missions most of the time. You see him occasionally but no where near enough to even think "Frostframe".

Fourth, puncture is universally useless outside of a few very specific times, such as using a puncture shotgun on all the enemies trapped in Vaubans vortex, and even if it did puncture peoples snowglobes you wouldn't see it being used unless they buff puncture in other ways.

 

First, i know that, but it seems small, i was deliberating on this too

 

Second, pvp still exists, and i think you did not read my post entirely, this shouldnt affect pve negatively and is whatsoever not a nerf, so i wonder why you say that pvp is not the focus of the game, i didnt focus only on pvp in my post and my suggestion does not negatively affect pve.

 

Third, Frostframe is frostframe because 9 out of 10 people in pve are frost, i didnt say anything about pve when i said frostframe.

 

Fourth, and that is why its a good thing to buff puncture like this, its useless and it should be useful, that was what i said.

 

Did you read the entire post or did you do speed reading? i dont really feel like i should have said everything twice.

 

I didn't even have to read your reasons, I already agree that puncture should work on Snow Globe.

 

Thanks, if that was TLDR i will sumarise

 

1- could be used for griefing and changing it this way would make it more useful and prevent that.

 

2- puncture = useless compared to any other mod at present time

 

3- should help aleviate the fact that the dojo is becoming frostframe without nerfing frost or his globe

 

4- its 100% NOT a nerf (you need to read the TLDR to understand this) and the logical asumption is that it should work

[Tsukinoki]

First, i know that, but it seems small, i was deliberating on this too

 

Second, pvp still exists, and i think you did not read my post entirely, this shouldnt affect pve negatively and is whatsoever not a nerf, so i wonder why you say that pvp is not the focus of the game, i didnt focus only on pvp in my post and my suggestion does not negatively affect pve.

 

Third, Frostframe is frostframe because 9 out of 10 people in pve are frost, i didnt say anything about pve when i said frostframe.

 

Fourth, and that is why its a good thing to buff puncture like this, its useless and it should be useful, that was what i said.

 

Did you read the entire post or did you do speed reading? i dont really feel like i should have said everything twice.

I did read your post entirely, but I was going down a point at a time, and you did bring up PvP as a reason to make this change. I was just pointing out that bringing up the PvP side of things is not a good reason to buff/nerf something in this game because of its PvE focus. That's all I was meaning by that.

I would disagree with the "9 out of 10 people in pvp are frost". He's not that common in pvp with trinity and vauban around, and in most things I see and read on the forums and in clans is Loki has a bigger presence in PvP.

Buffing puncture like this would do a small buff in defense missions (and not that noticeable of one). Outside of defense missions it still wouldnt be useful unless they buff the range that it can puncture. Otherwise its: Yay! I can go through a single grineer shield or a snow globe! Why would that suddenly make it useful enough to waste 15 (or 8 with polarity) mod points? Thats a full fourth of weapons potential with nearly no benefit. Doing a change like this wont make it useful enough to warrant its cost.

Finally, One thing is that you can see that railgun Moas can shoot through the snowglobe. They have technically infintie puncture distance on their shots (they just need some way to see the target to prevent them from shooting at you rooms and rooms away). So I think puncture may actually be working on the snowglobe but it is not a large enough value to get through.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[liavalenth]

This is an interesting topic. Should certain enemies be able to completely ignore Snow Globe? If the Puncture effect bypasses Snow Globe, then some enemies will gain Puncture with their attacks. Is this something that should be included?

 

I don't know, but I think it should be presented in this light to the community, see what everyone thinks.

[Klyern]

I did read your post entirely, but I was going down a point at a time, and you did bring up PvP as a reason to make this change. I was just pointing out that bringing up the PvP side of things is not a good reason to buff/nerf something in this game because of its PvE focus. That's all I was meaning by that.

 

 

For the rest of the points its more of a difference in perspective (im not even gonna argue about frostframe, i am not all present so i cant say for other clans but this is so in my clan), but i'd love it if you didnt put words in my mouth or ignored part of my post.

 

I didnt say you didnt read my post, i said speed reading, speed reading is a tecnique were you read only part of a text to speed up reading, this is not something i condone in a debate subforum or in this case a feedback subforum.

 

And i am repeating myself for the third time which makes me think you are doing this on porpuse probably because you are a frost user, this is not a nerf, it does not fall into the category of a nerf, and in pve it would be a buff.

 

You talk about not talking only of pvp but you disregard the fact that it is a buff for pve and dont even talk about the repercusions for pve but only attack my post saying "the game is not pvp only", which makes it obvious you are obsessed with not nerfing frost for pvp.

 

So lastly please discuss this in an adult manner if you are going to post in a feedback forum, like i said you are taking and putting words out of my mouth, i did not talk about pvp exclusively, thank you.

 

PS: thanks for noting that railgun moas shoot tru snowglobes, that is the main reason why i posted this, and the reason why i tried out puncture myself in pvp vs a frost, because i got the idea from them.

[paul62626]

I agree, just making the mod go through snow globe, rather than nerfing snow globe,

[Klyern]

I agree, just making the mod go through snow globe, rather than nerfing snow globe,

 

See? this guy read it without speed reading lol.

Thanks, i thought hard about it, after all who would keep puncture on his gun at all times? its not like Frosts will cry or become useless.

[liavalenth]

Thanks, i thought hard about it, after all who would keep puncture on his gun at all times? its not like Frosts will cry or become useless.

Enemies would. Also, if anything, this would make Snow Globe more useful for players because it would not block our attacks through it. However, if very many enemies had it...

[Tsukinoki]

You talk about not talking only of pvp but you disregard the fact that it is a buff for pve and dont even talk about the repercusions for pve but only attack my post saying "the game is not pvp only", which makes it obvious you are obsessed with not nerfing frost for pvp.

 

So lastly please discuss this in an adult manner if you are going to post in a feedback forum, like i said you are taking and putting words out of my mouth, i did not talk about pvp exclusively, thank you.

Never did I say that you were talking "exclusively" about PvP, so I would like it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth.

Here is what I was referring to:

about 9 out of 10 people keep frost on all the time just to abuse the Snow Globe because its so op in pvp that it overpowers other warframes entirely just because of one single ability, what good is pvp if there is a gamebreaking agent that is so common and easily obtained that it takes the fun as well as the excitement out of it?

That was all I was referring to when I said that bringing up PvP reasons is not a reason to call for a change like this and that you should try to back it up with other things, such as increasing the puncture distance so that it can hit multiple enemies or go through a decent amount of cover.

I couldn't care less about PvP as I dont take part in it, I am just trying to point out something that the main focus should be balancing around PvE and buffing puncture to be useful in PvE without even considering PvP which is just tacked on.

So please read what I am typing and actually take time to look at your posts to see what I may actually be replying to. That will generally help in debates.

And I have also brought up the point that making it go through snow globe would have a negligable effect in PvE without doing other work on the mod and trying to get some small discussion about what else could be done with/to the mod to make it useful and worth the 15 mod points.

[unmog]

I think theres much more important things they need to fix/buff/rework than puncture mod. Yes, its useless. But so is pretty much all critical mods, armor mods, and many warframe ability mods. And dont even get me started on mods about fire/cold/electrict/laser/poison resistance, or retribution and handspring. Theres just so many more important things for them to worry about than you feeling bad about not being able to shoot through snowglobe... thats the point of that ability and at least that one works. :p

 

Edit: PS DE... fix Nyx's ultimate.

Edited June 19, 2013 by unmog

[Klyern]

Enemies would. Also, if anything, this would make Snow Globe more useful for players because it would not block our attacks through it. However, if very many enemies had it...

 

heh xD but only railgun moas have puncture it seems and they ALREADY puncture through snowglobes, or at least they have a similar effect. And i dont believe any mobs have puncture, why would they? we dont have shields, plus i have never been hit behind cover or behind a snowglobe, have you?. (snowglobe being an exception like i just said, when being shot by railguns)

[Klyern]

Never did I say that you were talking "exclusively" about PvP, so I would like it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth.

 

 Oh thats good, so this is all my missunderstanding? great.

 

Then i guess we can agree there is really no reason not to implement this since this isnt a nerf?

 

See what i did there? i dont really care about your posts anymore, tyvm i dont respond to trolling, i only answered your points because i thought you were just speed reading and missed some of my points, now i know you were ignoring parts of my post deliberately because you didnt know how to respond favorably to them.

[Tsukinoki]

Oh thats good, so this is all my missunderstanding? great.

 

Then i guess we can agree there is really no reason not to implement this since this isnt a nerf?

 

See what i did there? i dont really care about your posts anymore, tyvm i dont respond to trolling, i only answered your points because i thought you were just speed reading and missed some of my points, now i know you were ignoring parts of my post deliberately because you didnt know how to respond favorably to them.

I am not trying to troll. What I am trying to say is that I disagree that making *just* this change will make puncture worth it and bringing up some points that maybe they need to simply increase puncture distance so that you can have the effect you want. I never said that it would be a bad idea or that it wouldn't help in PvE, Im just saying that at this point making a change like this wont have an effect like you think it will and that puncture as a whole needs to be looked into and buffed, not just a small change to how it interacts with snowglobe.

[unmog]

Okay, well each of ya said what ya wanted to, no point arguing. *shrugs and exits stage right*

[Klyern]

Okay, well each of ya said what ya wanted to, no point arguing. *shrugs and exits stage right*

 

yup thats my point exactly.