Dear De: Dont Forget To Fix Nyx

[unmog]

I couldnt help but notice in the livestream when you mentioned the frames you needed to work on, Nyx wasnt in there. Her ultimate just doesnt work. It misses everything. Its very nice your giving Ash more animations for his ultimate, but HIS ability already works. Before making it even better than it already is, it would be very appreciated to make sure all the abilities are working. Absorb does not... I dont see how this got overlooked for so long. Sometimes it hits, sometimes not, and even when being blasted by a room full of enemies and my friends laying into me, the ones it DOES hit it still doesnt seem to do much damage. Its REALLY needs work.

 

Ideas for Absorb, it needs to stand out more

Maybe have it ignore shields and do health damage... not sure if it already does this though since its BROKEN and rarely hits anyone.

Maybe buff the damage more, or have it work with focus, reflecting back a percentage more damage than the damage it receives.

Maybe increase the range more, it doesnt seem to have a very far range for an ability that leaves you completely immobile for 10+ seconds.

Maybe have it hit everyone, regardless of cover, much like saryns and banshee ultimate does, it just hits enemies in a certain raidus, even if theyre behind walls.

 

 

 

PS dont forget about Psychic Bolts

Reduce the cost of Psychic bolts, or increase the damage. Shuriken does more damage, costs less, and it essentially an identical attack even, it should do more comparable damage. How is it fair it costs more and does less? Not that I really care actually, damage attacks are pointless end game. But still, this is an issue that should be address for balance purposes.

[Feldgrep]

Ashs ult doesn't always work. I still think the slow cast time of it doesn't match the fast pace of the game. Why use blade storm when you can melt 3 times the enemies to green goo in half the time with a Saryn?

[wgrant]

They haven't touched Nyx because she is amazing as is and there are frame in desperate need right now.

Nyx is not a Push4frame, she's a Push3frame. Follow these easy steps and Absorb won't cause you anymore headaches.

1) Unslot Absorb

2) Slot Chaos

3) Push 3

4) Profit

[unmog]

They haven't touched Nyx because she is amazing as is and there are frame in desperate need right now.

Nyx is not a Push4frame, she's a Push3frame. Follow these easy steps and Absorb won't cause you anymore headaches.

1) Unslot Absorb

2) Slot Chaos

3) Push 3

4) Profit

Sorry for the delay, been busy with the event and stuff.

 

Anyway... regardless whether she has a good ability or not, it still doesnt mean all of her abilities shouldn't work as intended. And considering that her ult ability does require more work to kill things, aka drawing agro to herself and situating where she is since it takes a long charge time and the range on it doesnt seem that good, it still wouldnt make her a "push4 frame" as you call it.

 

But yea, pretty much you hit it on the head, right now all we can do is not use the ability because it doesnt work, at all. Thats why I made this thread, they need to remember to fix her ultimate so it CAN be used. Right now she only has two real abilities that work, mind control and chaos. Psychic bolts needs a buff somewhere [either in doing more damage or costing less mana to cast or sending out more arrows or something] and Absorb need to WORK. Theres just no excuse for someones ultimate ability, that appears in their friggen new E3 Trailer no less, to not work.

 

So yea, dont forget to fix it >:(

[BadAimbot]

Sorry for the delay, been busy with the event and stuff.

 

Anyway... regardless whether she has a good ability or not, it still doesnt mean all of her abilities shouldn't work as intended. And considering that her ult ability does require more work to kill things, aka drawing agro to herself and situating where she is since it takes a long charge time and the range on it doesnt seem that good, it still wouldnt make her a "push4 frame" as you call it.

 

But yea, pretty much you hit it on the head, right now all we can do is not use the ability because it doesnt work, at all. Thats why I made this thread, they need to remember to fix her ultimate so it CAN be used. Right now she only has two real abilities that work, mind control and chaos. Psychic bolts needs a buff somewhere [either in doing more damage or costing less mana to cast or sending out more arrows or something] and Absorb need to WORK. Theres just no excuse for someones ultimate ability, that appears in their friggen new E3 Trailer no less, to not work.

 

So yea, dont forget to fix it >:(

 

She has to have her other abilities not work because Chaos works too well. They'd have to nerf Chaos and, well, you know people react to that word.

[unmog]

She has to have her other abilities not work because Chaos works too well. They'd have to nerf Chaos and, well, you know people react to that word.

Why exactly would they have to nerf one ability to make another ability work at all? I dont see the reasoning behind that, its failed logic. So warframes can only have one good ability and the others are there simply to fill space and not work at all?

 

If thats your logic, then I guess most of the other frames are getting broken or nerfed too. This game doesnt need more people with that kind of mindset.

[Palamudin]

Looks sadly at iron skin card in slot... wheeps...

[Vyaldyn]

Absorb is only really viable without Shade in solo against Corpus. Grineer will shoot from cover (the damage doesn't go through cover) and infested aren't even taken into account when calculating damage output for the ability (from what I've heard, I might be wrong here!). The ability in its own right is amazing, it just doesn't work properly. It's the same case with Psychic bolts. They're good as long as they hit which seems unlikely unless you're staring at the enemy at point blank range.

 

Absorb needs some kind of aggro mechanic to go with it for it to be viable in teamplay. Whenever I see a nyx use it, which does not happen very often, I always shoot at the bubble and amazing damage is dealt. Though, I mostly play corpus defence so the nyx is usually in a Moa bulletstorm anyway.

Edited June 23, 2013 by 3ventic

[unmog]

Absorb is only really viable without Shade in solo against Corpus.

See I dont use shade... and Ive tried it against all factions, the overall ability is just underwhelming. If it hits at all, the damage is weak, regardless if I have a wave of dudes blasting me, regardless if my allies are blasting me too, regardless if I have a max ranked absorb, continuity, range, and focus on. To me, its gotta be a bug, cuz if thats how it was designed they REALLY need to redesign it.

 

The ability in its own right is amazing, it just doesn't work properly.

Not sure I followed that right... its amazing, just it doesnt work. How is that amazing really? :p I mean the idea behind it? Sure I can get behind that, its different than the other push 4 to win frames since you have to actually use a bit of strategy for it.

 

 

It's the same case with Psychic bolts. They're good as long as they hit which seems unlikely unless you're staring at the enemy at point blank range.

See I thought they fixed that, but honestly I dont really know since all I tried is seeing if they buffed the damage or lowered the cost to cast it by walking up to an enemy and blasting them... which they didnt. It really is lack luster in comparison to Ash's shuriken, which work, and are better in every way. [more damage, costs half as much, not buggy]

 

Absorb needs some kind of aggro mechanic to go with it for it to be viable in teamplay. Whenever I see a nyx use it, which does not happen very often, I always shoot at the bubble and amazing damage is dealt. Though, I mostly play corpus defence so the nyx is usually in a Moa bulletstorm anyway.

I also agree it needs an agro mechanic. But even without that a team mate can always just cast a decoy or something somewhere and the Nyx can do absorb on top of it. Thats what I've tried to do usually.

 

But the ability still needs buffed and fixed. In my mind it should also hit in an area regardless of cover, and probably just do health damage ignoring shields or something like Phorids psychic attacks and Saryn does. Even if it didnt ignore shields or armor though, Id just be happy with it just hitting an area like Miasma and chaos, working with focus, and the range on it increased... or at least more noticable of what the range IS... Im not even sure if it works with the range mod to be honest. If not it should though.

[MisterG]

It could also maybe do a "minimum damage" and the absorb goes on top, so it always does something....

[unmog]

It could also maybe do a "minimum damage" and the absorb goes on top, so it always does something....

Ive thought this as well, but I think it already HAS a minimum damage, just the damage is probably like 1 so it isnt noticable. I agree though, and leveling up Absorb might increase the minimum damage.

[BadAimbot]

Why exactly would they have to nerf one ability to make another ability work at all? I dont see the reasoning behind that, its failed logic. So warframes can only have one good ability and the others are there simply to fill space and not work at all?

 

If thats your logic, then I guess most of the other frames are getting broken or nerfed too. This game doesnt need more people with that kind of mindset.

 

Because of Chaos, Nyx is one of the most powerful Warframes. Buffing her other abilities could make her too powerful. Also, the bolded part is the exact opposite of what I meant.

[unmog]

Because of Chaos, Nyx is one of the most powerful Warframes. Buffing her other abilities could make her too powerful. Also, the bolded part is the exact opposite of what I meant.

I disagree, for one Im not saying buff her ability, just fix it. Right now its broken and doesnt work at all, so these "buffs" as you call them are necessary for Absorb to be FUNCTIONAL. And instead of calling for nerfs all the time, people should instead ask for fixing/increasing other warframe abilities to be just as useful and cool

 

For instance are you saying that Chaos is Overpowered? Because if so, thats a seperate topic really. But what is "too powerful" and who gets to decide? I think Chaos is fine as it is. Instead of damaging and instantly killing huge waves of enemies, she causes chaos as they start attacking everything randomly. Really by your logic youd be saying "Nerf everything to Mags level of usefulness" when most people seem to agree that Mag needs a lot more work and her abilities need to be better.

 

And what REALLY gets to me is your not even denying that her ultimate is broken and useless, you're just saying its fine because she has one ability that IS good. Shouldnt all the warframes abilities be good?

Edited June 24, 2013 by unmog

[Tei_S]

I honestly don't have too big of an issue with any of Nyx's powers, except for the obvious targeting issues with P. Bolts. Tired of those things flying straight into the ground...

 

 

Well, the only thing I could think of is that Absorb doesn't ignore cover, like someone else already said, and maybe the fact that Mind Control starts targets off with a stun, which more than usually causes them to just get killed immediately. Other than that it all seems fine to me.

 

Psychic Bolts isn't meant to be a "Press me to win" skill, it's just a way to get off extra damage. It's great against infested, and if all the bolts hit the same target it does a very large amount of damage.

[wgrant]

Chaos is arguably the best power in the game. It solves almost very situation with one button press regardless of enemy level. It's crowd control, argo control, and a source of scaling damage output through enemy attacks.

My point, as stated, is that she is extremely dominate in the game already while there are frames that people classify as "useless". DE should rework from the 'bottom' up meaning Nxy should be one of the last.

Honestly what are you expecting? I'm not saying that a frame can only have 1 good power but they need to specialize. Shuriken is better than the Bolts because Ash specializes in individual damage and Nyx in agro control. Nyx does this with Chaos and Mind Control, the cheaper version that does just as well when put on a heavy target. Expecting her to be a control caster and deal individual target damage like Ash and Absorb AoE damage like Saryn is naive.

Every frame has their gimmick skill, for Nyx it just happens to be her 4.

[Vyaldyn]

Not sure I followed that right... its amazing, just it doesnt work. How is that amazing really? :p I mean the idea behind it? Sure I can get behind that, its different than the other push 4 to win frames since you have to actually use a bit of strategy for it.

This is what I meant with it, and if you can get 30x 60 level Moas shooting you, the damage is awesome, but that is too situational. Same with the Loki's Decoy tactic.

 

 

Honestly what are you expecting? I'm not saying that a frame can only have 1 good power but they need to specialize. Shuriken is better than the Bolts because Ash specializes in individual damage and Nyx in agro control. Nyx does this with Chaos and Mind Control, the cheaper version that does just as well when put on a heavy target. Expecting her to be a control caster and deal individual target damage like Ash and Absorb AoE damage like Saryn is naive.

Every frame has their gimmick skill, for Nyx it just happens to be her 4.

The problem with the bolts is that they don't work as they are described to work. The problem with Absorb is that it's not worth taking on any mission. The damage output is trivial compared to weapons unless you're being shot by multiple lvl 70+ enemies who are not behind cover and sliding to cover usually does a better job at saving your butt while in a tough spot.

 

All frames should have abilities that are slightly situational. Not all abilities are good for all missions, but all abilities should have their missions where they shine. Mag's all abilities have their place in different types of missions. Vauban's abilities are all good, except bounce, which is slightly situational. Absorb isn't worth the mod capacity, because it's most of the time completely useless. Honestly, I'm not sure why I'm keeping it in my loadout for Nyx. I've been playing a lot of Nyx and I've only got use for the ability twice. That's twice in 2 months!

[wgrant]

The problem with the bolts is that they don't work as they are described to work. The problem with Absorb is that it's not worth taking on any mission. The damage output is trivial compared to weapons unless you're being shot by multiple lvl 70+ enemies who are not behind cover and sliding to cover usually does a better job at saving your butt while in a tough spot.

I'm not saying that they work, I'm saying there are frames that are more dysfunctional than Nyx that need attention first.

You know Absorb reflects friendly damage too right? Have a friend shoot you with Hek while you absorb, the damage will go through the roof.

[Vyaldyn]

I'm not saying that they work, I'm saying there are frames that are more dysfunctional than Nyx that need attention first.

You know Absorb reflects friendly damage too right? Have a friend shoot you with Hek while you absorb, the damage will go through the roof.

And that is the problem with the ability. You need a friend or a huge army of high level enemies to make any use of it. The problem with that, of course, is that friends often have better things to do like using their press-4-to-kill ability since, even buffed by friendly fire, Absorb doesn't compete with things like Sound Quake and Miasma.

 

Also, I agree there are frames that need a look first, but it doesn't mean we should stop bringing issues with other frames on the table.

Edited June 24, 2013 by 3ventic

[Tulzscha]

The only issues I have with Nyx, they're minor, are the buggy targeting with Psychic Bolts and Absorb needing a tweak to provoke aggro. 

 

As it is Mind Control and Chaos are awesome. There are a lot of more frames needing an urgent revision.

[wgrant]

Why is it bad that Nyx needs a friend/support to do damage with her spells? She isn't a damage caster. She can't do everything, her weakness is no spell damage.

Absorb doesn't draw agro so you have to take it to where the agro is. If its not a good offenseive spell maybe its meant for defense. Absorb on a cryopod, teammate reviving, etc.

[unmog]

Why is it bad that Nyx needs a friend/support to do damage with her spells? She isn't a damage caster. She can't do everything, her weakness is no spell damage.

Absorb doesn't draw agro so you have to take it to where the agro is. If its not a good offenseive spell maybe its meant for defense. Absorb on a cryopod, teammate reviving, etc.

I agree, shes not meant to be a damage caster and shouldnt do everything. I never said she should, just that absorb was broken and needed fixed too. I know there are frames in worse shape than Nyx, and Im not saying Nyx should be put ahead of them. But in the live stream they didnt even mention Nyx which is why I made this thread, she's not 100% done either though and they didnt address it.

 

Shuriken is better than the Bolts because Ash specializes in individual damage and Nyx in agro control. 

Im saying for a very similar ability, they should have similar damage potential. If the problem is that she shouldnt have damage abilities, then by all means replace it with something that doesnt suck so bad in comparison. Obviously though I think the Devs intended her to have some form of casting damage ability though, and if that is indeed the case then they should rebalance Psychic bolts to either do more damage or cost less energy to cast it. Shuriken can still be better, I dont mind that, but since their attacks are very similar they should have similar power vs cost effectiveness.

 

I'd rather them just replace it with something that didnt damage though, maybe a decoy ability like an illusion or trap of some kind. Maybe a barrier to hide behind. Dont just give me a weakened and more costly version of Ash's shuriken though, it isnt fair and your argument of balance should support this. I'm not sure why you believe its fair to have two good abilities balance two bad abilities. Idealy every warframe should have all good abilities. Ash has more than 2 good abilities after all, so should Nyx.

 

The only issues I have with Nyx, they're minor, are the buggy targeting with Psychic Bolts and Absorb needing a tweak to provoke aggro. 

 

As it is Mind Control and Chaos are awesome. There are a lot of more frames needing an urgent revision.

Right, again there are others that need the help more, the one that needs it the most is Mag. But Nyx's Psychic bolts and Absorb also need work. It bugged me that they showcased Nyx in the E3 trailer using her absorb ability, but Absorb has never worked right. It needs to work if they're going to put her in the spotlight, simple as that.

 

Also, I agree there are frames that need a look first, but it doesn't mean we should stop bringing issues with other frames on the table.

Exactly what I'm saying, we need to remind DE when something doesnt work or something needs fixed.

 

Really though it kind of bugs me that no one here is denying that the abilities suck or dont work or are bugged, it just seems to be an attitude of "Eh, it doesnt matter cuz she has chaos so she's fine as she is." Thats not a good perspective to bring into, and I hope Nyx's abilities gets fixed soon too.

[wgrant]

In you original post you mention Absorb not hitting everything and not doing damage as why it "doesn't work". What I'm saying is that it does work, it just doesn't do what you want it to. It isn't a press 4 to win skill. It provides damage immunity to you and anything you catch in the bubble and then sends out a low damage pulse that isn't cover piercing. What about that doesn't wok? Yes it's gimmicky and yes it's highly situational but every frame has a skill like that.

I completely agree they wanted her to have an option for damage spells, hence Psyhic Bolt. But since she is a control caster not a damage caster it has poor efficiency. I'm not sure they best way to explain that if you aren't familiar with game design... The best example I can come up with fast is Magic the Gathering's Color Wheel design principal. You can google that and get the gist. Ash is a damage caster so he has good efficient damage spells (red). Nyx is a controller (blue), she can have damage spells but she will have to pay more or be less efficient in generneral.

I have not seen an argument that leads me to believe Nyx's skills aren't working exactly like they should, it's just different than what people want them to do.

[unmog]

I have not seen an argument that leads me to believe Nyx's skills aren't working exactly like they should, it's just different than what people want them to do.

 

Then I suppose you need to use Nyx's ultimate. Ive used it in huge boss battles, surrounded entirely by enemies all blasting me. No cover anywhere. And when the ult finally goes off it hits only a few of these people, deals the boss a tiny amount of damage, and worst of all these people are still shooting at me so when Im not in my invincible bubble anymore I get pretty much instantly shredded. For an ultimate, it should be much more effective than it is. Its pretty much the single most worst ultimate in the game if thats what they intended. Have you not seen Rebeccas live stream where she's playing Nyx and she's doing a defense mission. She uses her ultimate, twice in a row, and kills litterally nothing around her?

 

Here Ill post a link. 

Fast forward to about 25 minutes in. Then explain that. That is not how an ultimate should be.

Edited June 24, 2013 by unmog

[Hixlysss]

Absorb + Bullet Attractor = Win. Problem being...Absorb doesn't go through cover and has...rather bad range, even with stretch on. On top of that, my only gripe with it is the "I am stuck here like this for 30 seconds, oh my god please shoot me more so this is over with!"

 

I have a couple ideas on how to fix Absorb on Nyx cause I've ran with her a while now and Absorb is a great power, it just needs...something. Either they make the damage go through cover or they allow Nyx to move around while in absorb mode, one of those two would work in my opinion. Another thing is, I'm tired of being stuck in it, is there any chance to add in a function where I just press 4 again and burst the bubble, doing what ever damage I have built up?

 

And last....I go back to the range the thing has. I'd honestly would trade damage for range on this thing because EVERY time I have used it, the bad guys always manage to stay just far enough out of range to shoot me, do damage, and then when the bubble pops, they don't get hit. So maybe just tweaking it some so it doesn't get as much damage built up, but to trade it off it gets more range with the more damage dealt to it.

 

As for psychic bolts, the reason it does LESS damage and costs MORE, it HITS MORE TARGETS. Shurkin hits 2 targets, I've had psychic bolts hit like...five or seven. I just press the button and a bunch of guys glow green.

[unmog]

On top of that, my only gripe with it is the "I am stuck here like this for 30 seconds, oh my god please shoot me more so this is over with!"

You cant even type when its on you know? Its so dumb... but Ive timed it, its about 15 seconds with a max continuity.

 

 

As for psychic bolts, the reason it does LESS damage and costs MORE, it HITS MORE TARGETS. Shurkin hits 2 targets, I've had psychic bolts hit like...five or seven. I just press the button and a bunch of guys glow green.

Max Psychic Bolts, 7 mod capacity, 50 Energy= 6 bolts that home supposedly, and fly into walls, that do 125 damage each according to the wiki, I thought they did 150. 750 total damage.

 

Max Shuriken, 5 mod capacity, 25 energy= 2 shuriken that deal 500 each= 1k total damage.

 

Cast it twice for 50 energy and 4 shuriken thats 2k damage, compared to 6 bolts for 750 damage.

 

It's not even close to balanced.

Edited June 24, 2013 by unmog