Covert Lethality change.

[armedpoop]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

There's a mod for that.

Do you know how that mod works? It only works on GROUND FINISHERS and the damage increase does not warrant an entire mod slot, especially not on something like Dark Dagger

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 minute ago, armedpoop said:

Do you know how that mod works? It only works on GROUND FINISHERS and the damage increase does not warrant an entire mod slot, especially not on something like Dark Dagger

Adds to the "challenge", doesn't it.

[TheAn0n]

15 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Sounds like a band-aid to me.

 

OFC IT IS. Noone is denying that. As a matter of fact the very fact they are band aids is the reason we defend them in the first place.

Sounds ridiculous right? But here is the thing. Bandaids are always created for a reason and that reason is poor gaming mechanics. In this case WF ludicrous enemy scaling where even the spit of a trash mob becomes a raid boss on its own. Now I would be the first to say nerf OP stuff IF there was any indication or inclination to fix the bad structure choices that lead to the creation of the bandaids in the first place. But there is none AT THE MOMENT.

You chums got the order in reverse. You ask for nerfs on the only gear and strategies that can tackle the cheap content without asking for the cheap content to be "uncheaped".

You are absolutely fine saying none sense such as "ohh but you are not supposed to play that content" even when the content was created and programmed to be in game. You are creating an oxymoron where you ask for nerfs in the name of skill and diversification but punish such concepts because they become irrelevant by the content itself.

Point:ask for global rebalances not just nerfs on the player side. Your mentality is backwards and on a personal note annoying.

[armedpoop]

1 minute ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Adds to the "challenge", doesn't it.

No, it doesnt. Nobody uses that mod in any real builds. That mod needs a buff if they want it to be viable and used. The mod itself doesnt affect "challenge" at all cause its never used. 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 minute ago, armedpoop said:

No, it doesnt. Nobody uses that mod in any real builds. That mod needs a buff if they want it to be viable and used. The mod itself doesnt affect "challenge" at all cause its never used. 

In case it wasn't clear: I was being facetious.

[SicSlaver]

5 minutes ago, Grayscale_Lord said:

Well. Unless daggers are getting buffed. I do not see the need to nerf/change/adjust Covert lethality. Without this mod daggers wont be used by anyone again. Seriosly they have trash stats in every aspect.

I've said it before in another post, but no one has made a proper retort. To justify this mod is to basically justify that daggers should forever be garbage present and future releases. Also, why are people saying stuff like I'm trying to get rid of Covert Lethality completely and telling me not to use it? I love the 100 base damage increase! It's definitely necessary for how crap daggers are right now. I love the idea of bonuses for Finishers! I just think the instant kill is an overkill, that's all. I don't want to gimp myself, but I also don't want things that are so overpowered in the game that I might as well not be playing it. I want balance! Stop using hyperboles as if they're valid arguments.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

In a game where enemies can instakill you, you should be able to instakill back.

 

Ta-daa! Balance.

[Flirk2]

43 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

Huh? I forgot what I used, but it wasn't Ivara. The randoms I joined used them, but I just ran away from them. Was it near Vauban Prime's release? I might have been using Vauban Prime.

You never noticed that the life support on survival missions is shared?

Never tried going solo for that?

''Randoms'' you joined got you through that mission with their ''cheesy'' Prowl and maybe CL daggers.

The fact that enemies didn't do any damage whatsoever and you ran away from your teammates in a mission with level 9999 enemies made sure you never noticed them gathering the life support capsules you needed to finish the mission successfully. Well done.

Now you advocate that a finisher should not really kill outright.

[(PSN)Bosnia_Akhalar]

I have yet to see someone actually using dagger. 3 - 5 seconds to kill only 1 enemy !!!. ineffiency ?!?. also now enless run died, star chart enemy are full of lv10 - 50, all people can bring any bad guns and still clear the room in 0 seconds.

 

Do you really think people use dagger to cheese ? cheese what ? to kill 1 lv50 enemy every 5 seconds ? lol no. Synoid symulor * pew pew pew*, Tonkor * pew pew pew*. No more Endless run, No more level 200+. Of course I'm fine if DE nerf CL mod, but I will have a big question why they take time to do that. there are much more thing to nerf first : Serration, Split Chamber, Body Count, Blood Rush, Primed Pressure Point, ....

[SicSlaver]

15 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

Im sorry, but you really have no idea what you are talking about. 

The challenge of that alert was surviving. The enemies did literally 0 damage. It was up to you to figure how to make life support stretch thru the time limit. They gave you one spawn wave of enemies and you had to figure out how to squeeze mini LS packs out of one wave of spawns. People like you probably wouldve never made it through the original 10mins that it was. 

Huh? Bizaro said he was being one-shotted? It's been a while, were they really doing 0 damage, but were level 9999?

[Hesyol]

??? This is a normal mod that makes daggers not so useless. Actually it would be nice if we had more specialized mods like that. Also how is that mod have anything to do with you? It's not like it can ruin your fun like some crazy aoe (Bladestorm, WoF, Mirage) and if you don't like CL mechanic, just don't use it

[SicSlaver]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Bosnia_Akhalar said:

I have yet to see someone actually using dagger. 3 - 5 seconds to kill only 1 enemy !!!. ineffiency ?!?. also now enless run died, star chart enemy are full of lv10 - 50, all people can bring any bad guns and still clear the room in 0 seconds.

 

Do you really think people use dagger to cheese ? cheese what ? to kill 1 lv50 enemy every 5 seconds ? lol no. Synoid symulor * pew pew pew*, Tonkor * pew pew pew*. No more Endless run, No more level 200+. Of course I'm fine if DE nerf CL mod, but I will have a big question why they take time to do that. there are much more thing to nerf first : Serration, Split Chamber, Body Count, Blood Rush, Primed Pressure Point, ....

Because those have already been mentioned before....

[armedpoop]

2 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

Huh? Bizaro said he was being one-shotted? It's been a while, were they really doing 0 damage, but were level 9999?

Yes. That was the joke of the alert, you had to figure out how to survive. Your companions did take damage tho. 

[SicSlaver]

2 minutes ago, Hesyol said:

??? This is a normal mod that makes daggers not so useless. Actually it would be nice if we had more specialized mods like that. Also how is that mod have anything to do with you? It's not like it can ruin your fun like some crazy aoe (Bladestorm, WoF, Mirage) and if you don't like CL mechanic, just don't use it

I don't just have issues with CL.... It's just I made this topic about CL.

[ShadowSquid96]

3 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

Huh? Bizaro said he was being one-shotted? It's been a while, were they really doing 0 damage, but were level 9999?

Yup, despite the high level, you could literally stand around and do nothing and they couldn't kill you

[SicSlaver]

5 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

You never noticed that the life support on survival missions is shared?

Never tried going solo for that?

''Randoms'' you joined got you through that mission with their ''cheesy'' Prowl and maybe CL daggers.

The fact that enemies didn't do any damage whatsoever and you ran away from your teammates in a mission with level 9999 enemies made sure you never noticed them gathering the life support capsules you needed to finish the mission successfully. Well done.

Now you advocate that a finisher should not really kill outright.

You've made a good point here. I do know it's shared. I was just running around collecting it from containers.

[SicSlaver]

2 minutes ago, ShadowSquid96 said:

Yup, despite the high level, you could literally stand around and do nothing and they couldn't kill you

Ah~. That might be where my misconception came from. Was DE hoping we'd instant kill them with Covert Lethality?

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 minute ago, SicSlaver said:

Ah~. That might be where my misconception came from. Was DE hoping we'd instant kill them with Covert Lethality?

That was one way of doing it.

[TrickshotMcGee]

Covert Lethailty makes up for the garbage heap that is the dagger class of weapons in Warframe. If daggers were significantly buffed to the point they were a viable melee weapon on the levels of every other viable melee weapon, then CL could go away. As it stands, however, CL is the only reason people even consider using daggers. Mostly I ignore it because my crit build War and Heliocor massively outdamage everything that a dagger could even dream of doing, even with 100 extra base damage. Hell, Karyst with a max rank CL has 150 base damage, but it is still 100% useless because daggers perform poorly in combat because of their idiotic and unrealistic animations and have no good stats whatsoever. Finishers are all they're really good for. 

To reiterate, daggers are trash. If they become something that's actually useful, I'll agree to this change because it's pretty powercreep. Until then, however, it is the ONLY thing that keeps them relevant, so it needs to stay as-is for now. Keeping the band-aid on until the wound heals, as it were.

[armedpoop]

2 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

Ah~. That might be where my misconception came from. Was DE hoping we'd instant kill them with Covert Lethality?

Well, theres multiple ways of killing enemies like that, so they were probably seeing what was used to do so. 

[ShadowSquid96]

4 minutes ago, SicSlaver said:

Ah~. That might be where my misconception came from. Was DE hoping we'd instant kill them with Covert Lethality?

I couldn't tell you TBH. I didn't even realize CL was a thing or the fact that I had one until I saw this thread. Despite their level, killing them was entirely possible, it just took a very long time with weapons/abilities. If I recall viral procs seemed to be quite helpful.

[SicSlaver]

1 minute ago, armedpoop said:

Well, theres multiple ways of killing enemies like that, so they were probably seeing what was used to do so. 

Yeah, sorry, my bad. I thought the point of that mission was to avoid the enemies and collect LS from other sources, like containers and I thought the Ivaras were just stealthing to avoid enemies.

[Flirk2]

1 minute ago, SicSlaver said:

Ah~. That might be where my misconception came from. Was DE hoping we'd instant kill them with Covert Lethality?

There were few ways to get the additional life support there. All RNG-based. So any strategy alone could end up failing the mission.

1) CL dagger on a frame that can open enemies to finishers.

2) opening containers

3) Ivara's Prowl

4) Nekros' Desecrate after using option 1

If there is any other way to kill level 9999 enemy I don't know about it.

Oh. And enemies stopped spawning so even with all the above there was always a chance to not have enough life support. So, as they say: "Keep clem and pray to RNGesus"

[SicSlaver]

4 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Covert Lethailty makes up for the garbage heap that is the dagger class of weapons in Warframe. If daggers were significantly buffed to the point they were a viable melee weapon on the levels of every other viable melee weapon, then CL could go away. As it stands, however, CL is the only reason people even consider using daggers. Mostly I ignore it because my crit build War and Heliocor massively outdamage everything that a dagger could even dream of doing, even with 100 extra base damage. Hell, Karyst with a max rank CL has 150 base damage, but it is still 100% useless because daggers perform poorly in combat because of their idiotic and unrealistic animations and have no good stats whatsoever. Finishers are all they're really good for. 

To reiterate, daggers are trash. If they become something that's actually useful, I'll agree to this change because it's pretty powercreep. Until then, however, it is the ONLY thing that keeps them relevant, so it needs to stay as-is for now. Keeping the band-aid on until the wound heals, as it were.

Yeah, but another fear of mine is that any daggers in the future will continue to be garbage to justify the existence of this mod.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

2 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

There were few ways to get the additional life support there. All RNG-based. So any strategy alone could end up failing the mission.

1) CL dagger on a frame that can open enemies to finishers.

2) opening containers

3) Ivara's Prowl

4) Nekros' Desecrate after using option 1

If there is any other way to kill level 9999 enemy I don't know about it.

Oh. And enemies stopped spawning so even with all the above there was always a chance to not have enough life support. So, as they say: "Keep clem and pray to RNGesus"

Making use of toxin procs was also another way of doing this (I'm looking at you Lesion).