[Request]Please Decrease The Number Of Infested Heavy Units Spawned At Once...

[WhisperByte]

... or increase the number of Grineer and Corpus heavies to compensate for the unfairness

 

Currently Infested heavies (aka ancients) spawn in multiples per room. It's pretty common to encounter couple of disruptors, a healer and a poison ancient in one pack. Usually it's even more.

On the other hand Grineer (heavygunners, commanders, napalms) and Corpus (techs, fusion moas, railgun moas) heavies spawn in the quantities of 1 or 2 per pack.

 

It's pretty imbalanced in my opinion and should be changed. So please, DE, either decrease the amount of ancients spawned at the same time or increase the quantity of other factions' heavy units

[LatoObligato]

I don't really see a problem with all the Infested heavies, as they're not that difficult to begin with. I'd think it's more annoying to get railgun moa then a bunch of ancient healers. It's a matter of how you deal with them.

[Enot83]

Don't see the problem.  Ancients are not like Grineer heavy units, so you're comparing apples and oranges to begin with.

 

What I don't understand is how there is a complaint about the # of spawns, and an absolute failure to mention the disparity in exp between these units, if you believed them to be in the same tier across different factions.

[WhisperByte]

@Nealybealy

Hm... Well after being stunlocked by multiple ancients while stealthed few times I don't really see how multiple railgun moas would be different. maybe some sort of limitation could be added that wouldn't allow more than let's say 2 stunlock prone enemies spawn in one pack but they would get other types of heavies to support them. Like more heavy gunners or fusion moas

 

@Enot83

Well the xp disparity is in my opinion another topic. And it should be brought up to DE's attention.

And according to Lotus ancients are heavy units. Just like Grineer or Corpus heavies. Also Ancients (at least in my experience) are way more difficult to deal with as they seem to ignore stealth if they start charging, don't make sounds when sneaking on you when they spawn in broom closet behind your back as well as have way more abilities than your regular run of the mill Grineer and Corpus heavies. Therefore their melee disadvantage is heavily negated and they seem to in line with heavy units of other factions

Edited June 22, 2013 by WhisperByte

[Enot83]

Hm... Well after being stunlocked by multiple ancients while stealthed few times I don't really see how multiple railgun moas would be different. maybe some sort of limitation could be added that wouldn't allow more than let's say 2 stunlock prone enemies spawn in one pack but they would get other types of heavies to support them. Like more heavy gunners or fusion moas

 

This doesn't sound like a spawning issue, more like an issue with avoiding being hit.  You may want to re-evaluate how you play it sounds like it is not working out very well.

[LatoObligato]

Hm... Well after being stunlocked by multiple ancients while stealthed few times I don't really see how multiple railgun moas would be different. maybe some sort of limitation could be added that wouldn't allow more than let's say 2 stunlock prone enemies spawn in one pack but they would get other types of heavies to support them. Like more heavy gunners or fusion moas

Here's a tip, don't get yourself in a position to get stunlocked by them then. Railgun moa are just much more annoying, imo. Those aren't even in the same classification of ancients. Sure, they may be up there for the strongest infested, but certainly not in range with Bombards and such.

[Oz270]

Like to see more Grineer heavies, that much is true for me

[0piuM]

I would like to think we are talking about defence missions.  If we are, everyone is missing the point.  It is not uncommon for four to five ancients to spawn at once.  They walk together and they usually rage together.  Five level 70 disruptors are pretty hard to deal with when they are traveling together and all rush at once.  I saw a few people say things along the lines of "you're playing wrong".  The thing that I see people forgetting is that the Disruptors (or whatever ancients) are not the only creatures.  There are a lot of other infested units bumrushing the artifact too.  Another thing I think people are forgetting is, there are multiple spawns.  This means that there aren't only 5 disruptors spawning, there are 5 toxic ancients and 5 healers spawning too (numbers will vary, obviously).

 

The point is, it is a problem.  If I do play infested defence, it's the one on Pluto.  It gets very stupid, very fast, especially in pug games (here comes a hundred responses ignoring everything I just said with the response "don't play pugs").

Edited June 22, 2013 by 0piuM

[LatoObligato]

I would like to think we are talking about defence missions.  If we are, everyone is missing the point.  It is not uncommon for four to five ancients to spawn at once.  They walk together and they usually rage together.  Five level 70 disruptors are pretty hard to deal with when they are traveling together and all rush at once.  I saw a few people say things along the lines of "you're playing wrong".  The thing that I see people forgetting is that the Disruptors (or whatever ancients) are not the only creatures.  There are a lot of other infested units bumrushing the artifact too.  Another thing I think people are forgetting is, there are multiple spawns.  This means that there aren't only 5 disruptors spawning, there are 5 toxic ancients and 5 healers spawning too (numbers will vary, obviously).

 

The point is, it is a problem.  If I do play infested defence, it's the one on Pluto.  It gets very stupid, very fast, especially in pug games (here comes a hundred responses ignoring everything I just said with the response "don't play pugs").

So you're complaining because you get overrun by them, and DE should fix it? You're serious? Because you have trouble with them? Edited June 22, 2013 by Nealybealy

[Datareaper]

You realize their aggro is pretty much proximity based right, and they cant climb ledges?

Intercept Ancients, Aggro them and stand on top of a box or climb a ledge.  They will try to chase you and fail miserably.

Buying your team time to erase everything else in the wave.

The problem isn't the enemy, its your tactics on dealing with them.

[Madotsuki]

I'd rather think of the Ancients as "medium" units instead of outright elite units. Though in such a case, instead of decreasing their spawn numbers (which i admit, with their current stats, having 7 Ancients in a row on a regular non-defense mission is BS), I'd rather they significantly decrease the armor on the Ancients, nerf the Disruptor's energy drain and nerf their knockdowns to a stagger, and then introduce actual infested elite units that appear at slightly lower than Grineer Heavy Unit/Corpus Tech frequency.

tl;dr Infested in general needs a complete overhaul and a lot of work done on them, not just the Ancients. Example: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/66390-enemies-overhaulrework-pics-incoming-and-wall-of-text-18th-june-infested/

also the sheer amount of elitists on this thread is depressing. Go back to Dark Souls or I Wanna Be The Guy, because Warframe was never advertised as a hardcore elite difficulty game.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Madotsuki

[PaperAlien]

also the sheer amount of elitists on this thread is depressing. Go back to Dark Souls or I Wanna Be The Guy, because Warframe was never advertised as a hardcore elite difficulty game.

lolnub if u think its to easy go to mercury and only play mercury you can play the other 90% of the game content when you become pro. scrub.

 

/sarcasm

Edited June 23, 2013 by PaperAlien

[gaurdianaq]

I once walked into a room with 4 grineer commanders... grineer heavies are far more dangerous than ancients... I can stunlock ancients easy enough with my melee weapons and the only ones that are a problem are the toxics and if I have iron skin on they're not an issue, grineer heavies on the other hand are are super annoying (looking at you commanders) or do a S#&$ load of damage (looking at you napalm and gunners)

[fatpig84]

DE: Ok. *Spawns 1 Grineer Commander 1 Grineer Bombard 2 Grineer Naplam and 1 Grineer Heavy gunner* Per squad.

 

Script: Grineer Commander to teleport Target to gunner, gunner to use radial blast then go full auto while bombard and Napalms go to melee range and shoot Artifact.

 

 

Am i doing it right ?

Edited June 23, 2013 by fatpig84

[gaurdianaq]

DE: Ok. *Spawns 1 Grineer Commander 1 Grineer Bombard 2 Grineer Naplam and 1 Grineer Heavy gunner* Per squad.

 

Script: Grineer Commander to teleport Target to gunner, gunner to use radial blast then go full auto while bombard and Napalms go to melee range and shoot Artifact.

 

 

Am i doing it right ?

Sounds good!

[fatpig84]

Sounds good!

 

I suggest this combo to be tested on Mercury first !

And if lowbies complain, DE can use alt accounts and tell them to L2P.

[WhisperByte]

DE: Ok. *Spawns 1 Grineer Commander 1 Grineer Bombard 2 Grineer Naplam and 1 Grineer Heavy gunner* Per squad.

 

Script: Grineer Commander to teleport Target to gunner, gunner to use radial blast then go full auto while bombard and Napalms go to melee range and shoot Artifact.

 

Sounds like an interesting and challenging combination. Something the community has been demanding for a while. 

 

When you think about it... Maybe tie number of heavy unit spawns per pack to mission difficulty. So at mission difficulty of 1 only 1 heavy unit could spawn per pack and at mission difficulty of 5 there will be possibility of up to 5 heavies. Of course there should be some restrictions to stunlock heavy unit spawn amounts so as to give the player a chance to fight back so no more than 1 Grineer Commander or Railgun Moa per pack

Edited June 23, 2013 by WhisperByte

[K_Shiro]

Mentioned stunlock problems are easy to deal with - diminishing returns. If you get stunned you get some resistance which shortens the next stun's duration or something (or chance)... maybe you gain timelimited immunity for last stun's duration etc. That would be nice on enemies too. I don't like glitching/locking bosses - I want challenge!

It seems to work on ancients and heavies already - like if you knock them down using flying kick they cannot be knocked down the same way for some time (or never again?).

 

Besides I believe that the balance is not a bad idea. True, that grineer heavies can reach you from afar but a hit from a Disruptor or the "body odor" of a Toxic ancient usually causes Way more trouble than a heavy who is slow and I can find a cover against etc.

 

About the Xp... Xp on it's own is worth revising. It is truly a wonder why would anyone want to farm highlevel missions for xp. Sure one enemy on Pluto worths nearly 2 grineers from Mercury - but if you can kill one from Pluto in 10 seconds you are a "die-on-sight" opponent for the Mercury's ones. It just doesn't add up. They have a way bigger multiplier on damage and hp than on xp. Also the stuff they drop is usually the same - I never got good mods outside of defense rewards.