Trinity Feedback

[Amistyrja]

gtfo you, that tail is just horrible, no matter what you say, IT IS  HORRIBLE!

Get over it son.

[i6n0r4n7e-2.0]

Get over it son.

Maybe i will, but you must admit that the tail is not beautiful.

[Schattensang]

Well okay, as a not-so-new Trinity-Player I have some thoughts on the matter myself.

But one question first: How would you discribe a Cover-System? And why doesn't this game have one?  Do you need to press a key to automatically jump behind a wall, so you can say that the game has a Cover-System? Do you need to shoot around corners while just your arm is a potential target for the enemy? And how would you see your enemies while doing it that way? Will you hold a mirror around the corner, too?

 

Okay, back to Trinity herself:

 

1) Well of Life. It is allways bugging me, that you get an animation like some sort of AoE-Effect, when you use this skill, but only one enemy gets the effect. It would be nice if the effect would spread over all the target within a certain range around the target you are casting on. Maybe for only 50% of the effect.

Also, only 100 Health (130 with Focus) aren't really much. Okay, it is a skill for just 25 Energy (or 17.5 with Streamline) , but still. 100 Health is too few on higher levels, as these Toxic Ancients do so much direct health damage. Your teammates are probably dead before you can even cast a second Well of Life.

 

2) Energy Vampire. You cast this for 50 Energy (35 at this moment with the new Streamline, maybe 37.5 when they change it to 25% maximum) to gain 100 Energy (130 with Focus). So in the best case, you get 95 Energy with this skill yourself. In the worst it is only 50. That's actually pretty nice. The only problem is, that most enemies die pretty quickly. But on higher waves in Endless Defense, or against enemies in the Tier 3 Void, this skill is just great. A level 80 enemy has enough health that 3 or even 4 players can do enough damage to get the full amount of energy.

 

3) Link. Complete invulnerability and 100% transfered damage. Well, not really. The range of Link isn't really too long. And 8 seconds without mods aren't that much either. So that means, to use Link, you actually have to stay near enemies that want to kill you, to use a skill for 75 Energy every 8 seconds, which needs a pretty long time to cast. That's not actually the way to use Link at all.

Sure, you can just go full berserk und go on a rampage with your swords while Link is active, but as soon as Link ends, you are pretty much screwed. And if you manage to get many enemies to shoot you while Link is active, it may happen that everyone around you dies, leaving you without your invulnerability, even when Link is still on. It just has a completely different mechanic than these other skills for invincibility.

In my opinion, it is better to just use this skill to revive other players, hack an important panel, protect an objective with your body or something similar. Nothing that takes too long to get over.

 

4) Blessing. Oh my god, this skill is strong. It has a really long cast time, but this isn't a problem at all. You can heal several thousands of health for your team and restore even more shieldpoints. Not to mention the short period invulnerability. And all that for just 100 Energy.

Well, at least sometimes. Most of the time you use this for something tedious like on player having 550/600 health, or one player receiving lots of damage at once. It seems to be really rare that more than one player receives enough damage to activate blessing.

 

And not to forget, that someone mentioned Mags Shield Polarization. It may seem weak compared to the powers of blessing. And I actually rarely used it on a player at all, as they mostly don't even notice the regain of shield and will still jump behind cover.

But this isn't where Shield Polarization actually shines. There is actually one problem that Trinity has. She can't heal the target on Endless Defense Missions. I got this question often enough "Can you heal the Cryo-Pod?" No, this isn't possible. There is no way to heal the Cryo-Pod, Core or whatever. But Mag can restore it's shield for the cost of only 50 energy. And she can restore it good.

 

 

So these were my thoughts on this discussion. (I would be happy to gain some enlightment about the cover-stuff.)

To sum it up, I only see a real problem with Well of Life (and mostly because of the animation, AoE would be so great).

 

 

PS: I love my little lobster. She is cute.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Schattensang

[ViolentDuck]

in most game im often in suport role but with trinity a feel useless.

let me explain.

1- well of life is useless, the AI die too fast i doesn't even have time to cast it, unless its on  a boss.

2- energy vampire, again a boss skill and most peoples dont even notice they gaining energy.

3- link...   "greneers, KILL HIM!!?? errrm wait nevermind run away and hide"

4- blessing, well this one is good no complain about.

 

 

1- a sheld booster instead of life because its already in skill 4

2- should be AOE fast skill so everyone can get some energy whatever ther target are.

3- sort of reflect mechanics whatever the enemy source came from ?

 

this wont make the trinity OP but more usefull.

As someone who mains trinity I second the well of life being useless..Energy vamp is great, link is great vs a boss or if you're trying to solo level 3 towers, Blessing is a god tier skill. My only complaint about the trinity? Probably her stats but that's whatever.

[Amistyrja]

Maybe i will, but you must admit that the tail is not beautiful.

That's your opinion son. If you think that way, that's your problem.

[Ronin666]

That's your opinion son. If you think that way, that's your problem.

 

That tail is glorious. Makes the imagination run wild as to what lies beneath.

[Amistyrja]

The tail protects what is sacred

[Teitaka]

1. Change Well of Life to a pulsing aura similar to that of the Ancient Healers ability that gives say 5health/sec for 20sec for 100health recovery.

Focus/Continuity mods etc will then increase the duration it lasts and the amount of health/sec it recovers.

This would not be a replacement to blessing as Blessing gives invulnerability for a duration and your health is recovered instantly opposed to taking 20+ seconds to recover around 200health that Well of Life would be if changed.

Since it would be a pulsing aura, you would need to stand near to trinity to recover your health.

2. Energy Vampire is good as it is, but yes, on weaker enemies it is kind of pointless, so why not make it so that if an enemy dies with energy vampire on it, then the body does not explode etc and drops to the floor, and does not disappear till after EV wears off, allowing players to shoot the dead body for energy even after the enemy has died. This wont make it OP, and will make it more useful in non-boss fights.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Teitaka

[MoyuTheTrinity]

What, Link?

 

How is a tanking ability selfish? I mean you might argue that Trinity is a support Warframe but tanking IS supporting the group.

 

If you use it to rez a downed ally where DPS warframes cannot reach due to heavy enemy fire, saving an otherwise doomed team mate from having to lose one of their daily revives, or worse yet, abandon the team is certainly not a selfish use of Link at all. Or how about when a Disruptor appears out of nowhere and gets a jump on the group? You Link up and draw its attention so that it doesn´t go after them and drain their energy.

 

In Defense Missions, you can use it to hold enemies at a choke point or take hits that would otherwise hit the object being defended. On missions such as Defense where getting overwhelmed can spell mission failure, since Trinity has no "battlefield equalizers" (like Crush, Snowglobe, Slash and Dash, Rhino Stomp, World on Fire, etc.), doing this is far more useful than simply standing back with your comparatively low dps, and waiting for people to take damage or waiting for an energy orb shortage so you can "help" them. And none of this stops you from using Energy Vamp or Blessing at any point in time so you are not endangering the group by doing this, only supporting it.

 

Nothing selfish about Link except the way you use it.

why do that when you can cast blessing and share it with your team

link is a selfish power it isnt your job to tank its your job to be a healer I already been overthis in past posts trinity is said by DE themselfs to not be like the other frames

she isnt ment to beable to do everything in the world she is only ment to do 1 job support healing/buffing not instant godmode tank with long &#! wind up heal

the only reason her heals suck and take to long to use is to balance out for link if link was not there the heals could be instant

 

think of it like this

well of life is weak

energy vamp is meh at best cuz of its situationalness its nice but its no radial blind

to make up for these 2 bad skills they have link a god mode skill with instant cast

then they where like oh... we need an aoe heal but healing is not worht the 100 energy lets give it invincability... but wait link is such a good skill we gada nerf this somehow okay lets give it a long cast time

 

If the first 2 skills where less situational she would not need link to survive she could jsut cast her 1st and heal herself and if link was not so good she could panic mode and cast her alt and healherself but since its windup is so great to balance it out you die before it can cast

if blessing did not have that wind up time you would not need link

 

They could nerf blessing and remove the healing from it then replace link with all the heal blessing used to have and it would make more sence for her job

 

Edited July 1, 2013 by MoyuTheMedic

[HoopleDoople]

Well of Life obviously needs reworked, but what I'd really like to see is some improved visual effects to make it easier for allies to understand what is happening.

 

One issue is that both Energy Vampire and Link make the affected enemy glow blue. If a separate enemy is affected by each one it isn't clear at a glance which is which (the beam linked to Trinity is what you have to look for). If an enemy is affected by both there's no way to tell. I'd make one of the abilities purple. An enemy affected by both should glow the color of Energy Vampire as this is more relevant to allies and there's still a linking beam of the other color.

 

Another problem is that it's impossible to tell when the invulnerability of Blessing wears off. The fix would be to either make players glow for the duration or have a different visual effect occur when Blessing wears off.

 

I also wouldn't mind a more obvious effect on the casting of Energy Vampire. Currently it's rather easy for a teammate to accidentally kill a targeted enemy before Energy Vampire finishes casting.

[Fenrisyn]

why do that when you can cast blessing and share it with your team

link is a selfish power it isnt your job to tank its your job to be a healer I already been overthis in past posts trinity is said by DE themselfs to not be like the other frames

she isnt ment to beable to do everything in the world she is only ment to do 1 job support healing/buffing not instant godmode tank with long &#! wind up heal

the only reason her heals suck and take to long to use is to balance out for link if link was not there the heals could be instant

 

think of it like this

well of life is weak

energy vamp is meh at best cuz of its situationalness its nice but its no radial blind

to make up for these 2 bad skills they have link a god mode skill with instant cast

then they where like oh... we need an aoe heal but healing is not worht the 100 energy lets give it invincability... but wait link is such a good skill we gada nerf this somehow okay lets give it a long cast time

 

If the first 2 skills where less situational she would not need link to survive she could jsut cast her 1st and heal herself and if link was not so good she could panic mode and cast her alt and healherself but since its windup is so great to balance it out you die before it can cast

if blessing did not have that wind up time you would not need link

 

They could nerf blessing and remove the healing from it then replace link with all the heal blessing used to have and it would make more sence for her job

 

 

Yes you seem to reiterate your point quite a bit, yet no one is buying it. It might come as a shocker, but you might consider the possibility that your point may very well be invalid.

 

You say Link is selfish, and maybe from your playstyle it might seem that way, but from my point of view it is not. I use it ALL the time to support my group. Trinity is support, and taking damage and stuns that would otherwise be directed at party members IS supporting the group. Holding enemies at bay so they don´t overwhelm defenders is supporting the group. Think of it as preventative healing.

 

Blocking Disruptors´ shield/energy sap, taking knockbacks from Heavy Gunners, etc. All these things support your team mates. Doing this does not hinder my ability to heal the group with Blessing, but it DOES mean that I am contributing to mission progress and not slowing it down with unnecessary idle time when heals are not critical.

 

As powerful as Blessing is, it baffles me why you would think Trinity needs more heals, when in 95% of the game right now, heals are not even a necessity to completion. The only exceptions are high level Defense missions and carrying underranked warframes through high level planets. With Blessing you can shield your allies and heal them. Well of Life, for what it´s worth, is another heal. Then you have energy vamp on top of that. If they gave you even more ways to buff your group it would be absolute overkill.

 

If Blessing didn´t have a long cast time it would be OP. Part of being a healer in any game is knowing how to cast pre-emptively to compensate for cast times. If her heals, Blessing most of all, were instant it would trivialize the game.

 

Also, if you find Energy Vamp is situational, you are not modding it nor using it correctly, especially since they buffed both it and Streamline this last hotfix. With Focus and Streamline I can gain positive returns on energy even on level 1 enemies on Terminus, but you need to use a heavy hitting weapon to make it work. I don´t need to wait for a boss or go to a high level planet to use it. Using the appropriate mods and weapons (always carry at least one heavy hitter) means that I can support the group by keeping Energy Vamp going and keep my team mates full of Energy throughout the entire mission. Situational? Not one bit.

 

They don´t need to change anything. Trinity is fine. The only thing I actually agree upon is that Well of Life has no real use at higher levels due to its overlap with Blessing.

[Amistyrja]

I give up on trying to make it clear that there isn't anything wrong with Link and that not all of Trinity's skills must be centred around healing allies(though Link is taking hits for allies half the time). Energy Vampire, Well of Life can be used selfishly just like how Link can be used to assist teammates, many bad Trinities only Bless when their own health drops. Shut up about Link and focus on Trinity's real problems and the lack of animation and physics when it comes to her lobster tail.

 

 

Back to Energy Vampire.

 

It's a situational skill, nothing wrong with that. If you have a high energy upkeep because you spam Link and don't wish for your EV to be restricted to bosses and heavies, max EV and sacrifice one of your mod slots for a Focus module. If not, it won't matter for S#&$, you'll still have more than enough Energy as long as you have Streamline equipped anyway.

 

Link is- oh fukk this I'm not going to bother, there are always going to be people raging about how Trinity is meant to be a heal-slave or rather nerf her than buff Rhino.

 

Blessing is amazing. Mostly unneeded in missions that aren't Defense, but that does not mean that it's useless outside of it. Imbalanced? Everything and anyone is OP in this game, do something about those before coming back to cry about Blessing. Not like it doesn't already have a $&*&*#(%& casting animation.

 

 

 

Back to what needs dire attention: Well of Life

 

 

DE wanted a light healing ability? Well they certainly went about it the wrong way. Either its purpose is changed, or its reworked to work as a mini-heal properly and is not obsolete.

 

 

Heal-bomb Well of Life: Fast casting animation. When used on an ally, instantaneous heal. When used on an enemy, does light armour-ignoring damage, staggers and heals some health to any Tenno who kills it.(ranking increases damage and health gained)

 

Radial heal Well of Life: Fast casting animation. Restores health to Tenno near enough to Trinity, and Trinity herself.(ranking increases range and health restored)

 

Fortitude Well of Life: Fast casting animation. Slaps an amount of health onto an ally that can go above their maximum health. Trinity herself receives half the bonus. If used on an enemy, Trinity receives full life bonus from the ability.(ranking increases health bonus)

 

 

Possible reworks of Well of Life to a buffing skill:

 

Increase Agility: Increases movement speed, reload speed and melee fire rate of Trinity and her target.(ranking increases bonus)

Space Angel: Decreases damage received by a small percentage by Trinity and her target.(ranking increases damage reduction and ability duration

Maximize Power: Increases power duration and power effects of Trinity and her target by a tiny percentage(aka baby Focus and baby Continuity, ranking increases duration of buff)

[Nitrobudyn]

After leveling her up to lv 30, i don't consider Trinity fun to be played.
First of all, as a healer, i'd like to see health bars of my team and that means i won't be able to see the chat. This is really frustrating.
Next thing, the Blessing - when i see my teammate's health is going down i think to myself Yes, this is my moment, then i hit 4 and wait 2 seconds just to fined out that my teammate is already down. This sucks, since blessing can't resurect teammtes.
Finally, Link - i like how it works, especialy when i can use melee weapons on ancient green snot. The only problem is that i don't know when it is about to end and i will find myself in the middle of a stinky cloud.

What i would change:
1) Change the hud, or make health bars moveable.
2) Blessing - leveling it shouldn't increase invincibility duration but lower the cast time.
3) This considers all frames - when an ability effect is about to end its icon should turn red.

[Amistyrja]

After leveling her up to lv 30, i don't consider Trinity fun to be played.

First of all, as a healer, i'd like to see health bars of my team and that means i won't be able to see the chat. This is really frustrating.

Next thing, the Blessing - when i see my teammate's health is going down i think to myself Yes, this is my moment, then i hit 4 and wait 2 seconds just to fined out that my teammate is already down. This sucks, since blessing can't resurect teammtes.

Finally, Link - i like how it works, especialy when i can use melee weapons on ancient green snot. The only problem is that i don't know when it is about to end and i will find myself in the middle of a stinky cloud.

What i would change:

1) Change the hud, or make health bars moveable.

2) Blessing - leveling it shouldn't increase invincibility duration but lower the cast time.

3) This considers all frames - when an ability effect is about to end its icon should turn red.

Drag the chat bar away from your teammate's health displays.

 

Depending on where you are, you can't just count on watching your teammate's health displays to know when you'll need to use Blessing. Keep an eye on them or use voice comms. Sucks, but has to be done if you want to be a good Trinity. As for its cast time, I hate to say it but it's actually kinda helps to balance it a little. Full restore and invincibility is pretty good, even for an uber.

[Nitrobudyn]

Drag the chat bar away from your teammate's health displays.

Wow, i didn't know there is such an option. Thanks :)

 

Depending on where you are, you can't just count on watching your teammate's health displays to know when you'll need to use Blessing. Keep an eye on them or use voice comms. Sucks, but has to be done if you want to be a good Trinity. As for its cast time, I hate to say it but it's actually kinda helps to balance it a little. Full restore and invincibility is pretty good, even for an uber.

Well, usually a support is one of tougher roles because you have to have eyes in the back of your head. Trinity fits in that trend really well. Unfortunetly seems to me, that plaing her is as well more punishing than other frames. When some other frame catches one enemy with their uber, they may say it's something, but when Trinity heals 2 teammates and the last one falls.. Trin, You only had one job (at least that's how i feel in such a situation). As for the balance, personaly, i'd prefer less spectacular efects but more rewarding when abilities are used.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

I would still rather have all 4 skills good instead of

bad

situational

god

okay

 

but if wol vamp and blessing got up to speed she would be way to strong to have link because then she would just be casting heal constantly but still have this god skillshe wont need unless she is solo but why would you be a healer solo

you face it if her blessing was faster cast and wol was actually usable in everyday situations link would be the lazy mode or a useless skill in a group situation more so then it already is

 

 

 

blessing does the same thing but for everyone why not make it cast faster and have a longer durration and simply make link the healing skill that way blessing is for team invincibility only and her 3rd can be the aoe heal and her first can be a directional heal

she would keep the survivability because she will have a faster casting aoe heal and she will still have and give invincibility without only protecting herself it would just be more reasonable then her getting such an out of place skill

 

 Also if they remove enemy requierments for WoL and Vamp link would be even more oddball out then it already is it will be the only skill that requiers an enemy to be around inorder to use

I do not think I am alone here when I say I should not need an enemy around inorder to heal/regen team energy/ or become invincable

and another thing I am just thinking of as I am about to post Link and blessing do the same thing make us invincible but blessing makes others invincible but with no enemy needed

look

1 health 2 energy 3 invincibility 4 health shield invincibility

only 1 fast skill 2 semi reasonable cast times and the last takes way to long to cast and gives way to much in return

but why not

1 health 2 energy 3 health 4 invincibility

but with all of them fast casting and can be used while moving and jumping so you actually can heal people when they need it actually make people invincible when they are about to die without needing to babysit bad players

TL;DR

a trinity has 1 job make sure people dont fall and she can barly do that or atleast not as easly as she can survive

I would rather have a hard time surviving with an easier time healing then vice versa

it does better for the trinity to fall then for all 3 of her teammates

 

 

even better

make link only connect to teammates in range it regens their/our  hp over time and once they are full it looks for the next teammate inrange that took damage requiers teammate to heal trinity (maybe it can link to all teammates in range possible range of an ulti)

then nurf blessing so it does not regen shield and make it only heal 25% hp and make it cast faster maybe as fast as vamp/WoL

bam link is now a healing skill

Edited July 3, 2013 by MoyuTheMedic

[Shroudb]

a simple change that i would like to see in WoL and EV is the +maximum moved from focus to continuity:

 

as it stands now, continuity still hurts her first two skills without giving them a bonus. Since it makes them last longer, the reasonable (imo) thing would be to also increase the limit.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

a simple change that i would like to see in WoL and EV is the +maximum moved from focus to continuity:

 

as it stands now, continuity still hurts her first two skills without giving them a bonus. Since it makes them last longer, the reasonable (imo) thing would be to also increase the limit.

actualy they fixed that the effects nolonger count as inuse on a deadbody

[Shroudb]

actualy they fixed that the effects nolonger count as inuse on a deadbody

Yeah but...

When used on anything other than a boss it dies too fast for the party to reliably benefit from it.

When used on bosses, everyone has received their 130 energy within 3-4secs max, And then you have to wait for another 10 secs for the effect to end.

At the moment it's base duration is close to 9? That means with continuity and helmet it lasts nearly 15 secs. Either both survives that long, or if it does survive then the party would need more than 130energy for all this timespan

[ExiledRamen]

At first I didn't think that trinity was good, but now she's my favorite war frame. Here are my thought's. 

 

Well of life: I do agree the Well of life is kinda useless since you have blessing which fully heals and gives that invincibility.  

 

Energy Vampire: This right here is her bread and butter. Even better with the recent change. Very powerful if used correctly. Mostly useful against higher level enemies. You can get a little energy with a weapon that doesn't one shot kill low levels. 

 

Link: We all know this is good when used with Energy Vampire. If timed with energy vamp your pretty much Invincible. I didn't like that enemies wouldn't attack you sometimes when link is up, but whatever if they don't wanna attack you then crush them. When fighting infested if you put yourself in the middle of a horde and use link they drop like flies. Feels awesome when you link and use a good strong melee weapon. 

 

Blessing: Useful when your monitoring everyone's health. If your playing defense is best to heal at the start up of a new round since everyone will start with full health and the invincibility. 

-------

I also found that Vauban + Trinity = Best Friends Forever/Unstoppable team. Have Vauban throw traps on your Trinity. Then when you go into battle, link, energy vampire. Vauban will get energy from the traps that are on you. Also enemies tend to attack you more when the traps are on Trinity. Vauban can pretty much set it and forget it so he can concentrate on other things. Be careful though, my friend and I managed to crash the game once due to all the traps he was able to set. Meanwhile Trinity can run in reck stuff and not really worry about much except keeping the loop of energy vamp and link going.  

Edited July 4, 2013 by ExiledRamen