Tonkor Nerf and Launcher Buffs

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 hour ago, Sintag said:

It's also very annoying to be suddenly hurled into the air at high speed by accident.  Did Soldier's rockets ever hit him because they were explosive superballs?  No.  Tonkor got nerfed by way of a bug fix.  It's still the strongest nuke shooter out there.  As for enemies using bombs yet never killing themselves?  Sometimes, only gameplay mechanics can explain stuff.  Also, see the post by steelblueskies, his idea for the cap is impressive.

 

Also, is Ogris "balanced" because it can instagib you if Rhino is in front of you?

You are wrong on a few things. Can a soldier's rockets hit him? Yes. You fire a rocket too close to an enemy and both you and the enemy take damage. And in a pvp game self damage is a bigger risk than self damage in a pve game. Demo-man also has grenade launchers that act like the penta or the tonkor. The main difference is there is a damage cap where the damage hurts you, but not enough to kill you. The demo man can also use his grenades to propel him into the air, like the tonkor.  People use the explosions to travel quickly or surprise people. 

The Tonkor is comparable to the simulor or the penta. The tonkor is the tigris of launchers, of course it hits the hardest per shot. You have two shots then a long reload. No point of using it if you have two shots and a long reload if it doesn't kill anything. The penta and simulor shoot faster and have a large clip so they don't hit as hard. You can pump out more sustained damage with the larger clip. The ogris is arguably the weakest of the bunch and the fact that that can kill you accidentally means that self damage requires a cap. Why doesn't the  ogris have an alt fire the locks on targets? 

And I'm not impressed with steelblueskies idea. What's the point of using a launcher if it does no damage? That's like having a sniper rifle do 5 damage if you are too close to the enemy. Neutering damage isn't an answer when ospreys and bombards do full damage with no self damage to themselves. And what game mechanic explains that? Napalms can sit in their own fire without a care in the world, yet all our launchers save one can kill us? 

What's more annoying? Accidentally getting hurled in the air using a tonkor? or being blown to smithereens accidentally by a penta/ogris? 

Edited September 12, 2016 by (PS4)UltraKardas
Repeat Sentence

[Relentless.Zen]

And buff the Synoid Simulor maybe.

[Sintag]

What I mean is that, do Soldier's rockets, bwrring enemy Pyros, ever bounce iff the environment, do some physics, and then smack into him?  And yes, I get it.  Tonkor's lower clip must be compensated for.  AND THIS ISN'T MY PROBLEM WITH THE WEAPON.  What IS my problem with the gun is the fact that it does next to no self damage compared to all other launchers.

 

And as for steelblueskies's idea, he means if the round would also catch YOU in the radius.  This means that, hey guess what?  You won't instagib yoyrself from a rocket or bomb fired too close, at the punishment of steeply reduced damage.  As for enemies dealing no self damage...Look at their AI and then tell me Bombards wouldn't kill the entire group of enemies near them as well.  Sometimes, mechanics must be the sole justification.

[(PSN)official_79]

2 hours ago, Sintag said:

What I mean is that, do Soldier's rockets, bwrring enemy Pyros, ever bounce iff the environment, do some physics, and then smack into him?  And yes, I get it.  Tonkor's lower clip must be compensated for.  AND THIS ISN'T MY PROBLEM WITH THE WEAPON.  What IS my problem with the gun is the fact that it does next to no self damage compared to all other launchers.

Yes, thats why I want a damage cap on ALL explosive weapons. Max 30% or so since you think explosive weapons should have a sense of risk.

If such an idea is implemented, not only will you get blown up for being stupid with a Tonkor, but you'll no longer be instantly deleted when using other explosive weapons, making every single explosive weapon that much more appealing.

Everybody wins.

[Sintag]

2 hours ago, (PS4)official_79 said:

Yes, thats why I want a damage cap on ALL explosive weapons. Max 30% or so since you think explosive weapons should have a sense of risk.

If such an idea is implemented, not only will you get blown up for being stupid with a Tonkor, but you'll no longer be instantly deleted when using other explosive weapons, making every single explosive weapon that much more appealing.

Everybody wins.

I'd roll with maximum self damage being to 33%.  There's also a part of me that enjoys symmetry, with the damage itself scaling based on how close you were to the center.  Either this or the 'Safety rounds' idea where if you're an idiot with the explosives, nothing really receives serious damage.

 

And we're in agreement that bombs should pass through allies, I assume.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

8 hours ago, Sintag said:

What I mean is that, do Soldier's rockets, bwrring enemy Pyros, ever bounce iff the environment, do some physics, and then smack into him?  And yes, I get it.  Tonkor's lower clip must be compensated for.  AND THIS ISN'T MY PROBLEM WITH THE WEAPON.  What IS my problem with the gun is the fact that it does next to no self damage compared to all other launchers.

 

And as for steelblueskies's idea, he means if the round would also catch YOU in the radius.  This means that, hey guess what?  You won't instagib yoyrself from a rocket or bomb fired too close, at the punishment of steeply reduced damage.  As for enemies dealing no self damage...Look at their AI and then tell me Bombards wouldn't kill the entire group of enemies near them as well.  Sometimes, mechanics must be the sole justification.

Rocket's never bounce off the environment. But Demoman's? Many a poor demoman have fired a grenade in a close area just to have it bounce and kill them.

Enemies and tenno need to have the same mechanics when it comes to explosive weapons. If we can kill ourselves with our own weapons, that should apply to bombards. If bombards can't kill them selves with their own rockets, then neither should we. 

 

I don't care what they choose as long as its the same tbh

[Sintag]

3 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Rocket's never bounce off the environment. But Demoman's? Many a poor demoman have fired a grenade in a close area just to have it bounce and kill them.

Enemies and tenno need to have the same mechanics when it comes to explosive weapons. If we can kill ourselves with our own weapons, that should apply to bombards. If bombards can't kill them selves with their own rockets, then neither should we. 

 

I don't care what they choose as long as its the same tbh

What...No.  Nuh-uh.  As I just said, sometimes game mechanics are the sole justification for why X is X on one side, but X is Y on another side.  Sometimes the AI can be allowed to cheat a little, because otherwise, the bag of hammers I call basic enemy A.I would have everything and everyone on it's side killed, or we could run around spamming rockets willy nilly since there's no consequences.