This Game Is Too Ez

[Reichmar]

@OP 

 

We're getting new planetary systems for more (and higher difficulty) linear progression (I hope at or before launch...).

 

We're also getting a minigame-esque nightmare mode for current missions based on Mastery ranks (in U9).

 

Stuff is coming. Everyone knows the game is easy now. Try to hang in there.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Reichmar

[DeatH-ReapeR]

The void is a good example of what needs a serius boost, since you can litterally solo T1,T2 and T3 if you play it right, I believe the T1 is okay to be soloable but hard, T2 needs atleast 2 players and T3 needs 4 players.

[Aishi]

So many people in this thread say endless is hard and I'm sitting here going :I

It's just a test of patience and not blowing yourself up with Ogris/Torid while you're falling asleep

That's it.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Aishi

[falcon2500]

I have to agree, this game is too easy but I don't think it's because of the weapons, they have no real enemy variations. They could for exemple(RPG style) put enemies that has to be kill within second or else you loose all your shield and get knocked back. Add buff, debuff and yes, they have to increase the I.A difficulty some enemy just get stuck, move from cover to cover without attacking you at all. 

[Rusalki]

Regarding experience, try looking it up in the wiki under Affinity, it'll clear up many of the laughable misconceptions in this thread.

 

Otherwise regarding the Ogris, it's a Mastery rank 6 weapon. Comparing it to lower Mastery rank weapons is moot, since it's obviously made for a higher difficulty bracket than is available currently. To put things into perspective, consider how Mastery ranks work: 100 points/level for weapons, 200 for Warframes. Mastery rank 6 is 90,000 points, meaning 30 max ranked weapons, or 15 max ranked Warframes.

 

Simply put, the Ogris wasn't made for current levels, but for future, more difficult ones.

[1417]

maybe varro can become your playground ;) return with some video if you allready complete some high wave there ^^

[PrivateAli]

So many people in this thread say endless is hard and I'm sitting here going :I

It's just a test of patience and not blowing yourself up with Ogris/Torid while you're falling asleep

That's it.

 

 

Try running around at wave40 on Venera with your just forma'd Rhino Lvl4 and only Iron Skin and your Lvl17 Gorgon with you (and your potatoed Lvl30 Lex and Lvl30 Fragor). This is what I call hard.

 

Patience is the least you need there.

 

 

However, Tier3 Voids can also be soloed. (I tried it once) You need a potatoed Latron (you can do it without but i seriously recommend the potato), maybe 1-2 Rifle Ammo Boxes for safety, and a lot lot lot of patience. Why Latron? Because it has the best ammo / damage ratio i've seen so far - Torid and Ogris are in another world. I'm talking about easier achievable weapons.

 

Or you take the Snipetron Vandal, Level it to 30, Take 1-2 Sniper Ammo Boxes with you and a lot of patience aswell.

 

Me and 2 friends played a Tier3 Void with our newly obtained Lvl8-12 Snipetron Vandals and I was able to one-hit the Crewmen and "Small-Sized Heavy Gunners" in the head already. (used Serration +105% Damage and I think it was my low-level Piercing Hit Mod, it wasn't the maxed one, thats for sure)

[gell]

You can make the AI smarter than a supercomputer and that wont protect it from a rocket to the face. 

 

Wait a minute... yes it could. Did you ever play Unreal Tournament on god-like mode? That AI was so good, yet it didn't cheat. It just used a lot of algorithms for predicting movement, and a different tactic for every weapon and match up. And man did they avoid getting hit in the face with a rocket.

[lautalocos]

I'd say increase the AI difficulty.

A nightmare mode is coming soon anyway, speak again then.

i think the nightmare mode will not make the nemies smarter.

[Ghobe]

Sorry privateali, but if they did all your changes, you will have successfully turned this into a cover shooter, which they don't want. It's possible for a game to be difficult without forcing you into cover to fight back, or making the enemies constantly use cover when fighting you. I understand making the humans be more squad-like and making them use cover. But forcing it into every enemy, especially enemies designed to take a beating(moas? lol), that's just not the way to go. Does enemy armor need to come into play sooner forcing more importance on weakpoints? Maybe. Also, shockwave moas are utility enemies like scorpions, giving them a shotgun is turning them into a mini-boss-like enemy. Railgun moas do not need to shoot faster, should they go into a "siege" mode where their shots become more powerful and have a degree of puncture? Sure, that would make them tougher without causing them to stunlock in packs of 2 alternating and prevents the game from become Spinners of Cover 4. Also, a platoon is not 4 guys. That is, at best, a squad. Not that big of a deal, but it's bugging me >=O I stopped reading at railgun moas quite frankly, sorry /shrug

 

Quite frankly, I want to hold off on talking about difficulty until nightmare mode + new system to see if they're still babying us.

 

As to Stalker though, he needs a couple things...

#1 His AI needs a major overhaul, he should not be coming at you head on, his toolkit isn't even designed for it. He needs to be using the teleport for things like going into and out of melee range, getting to somewhere to set up an easy slash dash, etc.

#2 He needs to use charged shots, not just quick shots.

#3 He needs to switch to his secondary now and then.

#4 He needs a tool for CCing members other than the target.

#5 He needs a tool for pulling his target down from boxes.

#6 He should probably move at nearly double the speed he is now if he's not lining up a shot.

#7 He needs a sentinel to cast Guardian on him and to apply Freeze to you(/cackle).

#8 He needs a tool for dealing with trash mobs.

#9 He should be able to work WITH assassination targets, instead of turning it into a three way battle.

And then there are quite a few things that could just change with him as he levels up. For example..

#1 His loadout changes.

#2 He gains additional skills(Decoy for example, though it would be a bit more convincing for fooling us ;p)

#3 He begins trapping up map.

#4 Perhaps he could even not come alone. Using a series of sentinels for example.

Finally, there should probably be multiple ways for him to come after you that also unlock as you level...things like...

#1 Intentionally breaking windows.

#2 Stealing your objective from you(Raid missions for example)

#3 Compromising the integrity/route of the ship(giving you 5 minutes to complete the mission or fix/reroute the ship)

You know, anything that could spice up the encounter from the norm. Stalker can very easily have his own stickied thread though on needed changes, like stealth changes.

[Aidith]

One question and one answer:

Question: Do any of you play solo?

Answer: Obviously not.

 

Feel free to dispute with a video of yourself soloing pluto with no mods and a lvl 1 frame,say... loki. And don't forget, all level 1 weapons. Plus,perma-death,you go down, you loose all weapons and your frame.

 

You want to make the game hard,there you go.

 

After your uberness has completed pluto, then talk about how easy this game is.

[Ghobe]

One question and one answer:

Question: Do any of you play solo?

Answer: Obviously not.

I don't play defense solo, but every other mode I do. You want a video?

Enjoy. No, I'm not bragging, because it's not impressive.

 

Feel free to dispute with a video of yourself soloing pluto with no mods and a lvl 1 frame,say... loki. And don't forget, all level 1 weapons. Plus,perma-death,you go down, you loose all weapons and your frame.

 

You want to make the game hard,there you go.

 

After your uberness has completed pluto, then talk about how easy this game is.

Really? There's a difference between difficulty and stupidity. Try to find it.

[InfamousJim]

Really? There's a difference between difficulty and stupidity. Try to find it.

+1

[Carcharias]

I have to agree, this game is too easy but I don't think it's because of the weapons, they have no real enemy variations. They could for exemple(RPG style) put enemies that has to be kill within second or else you loose all your shield and get knocked back.

How about an enemy where if you don't stun it or kill in it less then 2 seconds it knocks you down, fuzzes out your screen and mini map, take all your over-shields and takes all your energy to so you can't use any of your powers. How's that?

 

Wait.... that's already in game. nvm.

 

If you just want it to be harder take some mods off.

[Aidith]

I don't play defense solo, but every other mode I do. You want a video?

Enjoy. No, I'm not bragging, because it's not impressive.

 

 

Really? There's a difference between difficulty and stupidity. Try to find it.

 

The reason I posted such a stupid 'difficulty' is to point out the fact this game can be made 'hard'. Usually through artificial means, i.e. removing mods,low level frame, running things solo, etc. 

 

Or just by using forma on your weapons and frame and re-leveling them so you can put higher energy mods in them. 

 

I don't believe I was being insulting, just being facetious. I don't think you needed to be insulting in your reply. 

 

P.S. - BTW, that was a nice solo run, all joking aside. Mag is not my best frame..

Edited July 10, 2013 by Aidith

[VScipii26]

Yes it is.
Needs differences in AI and such, not higher numbers.

There, that's all there is to the whole "argument".

[Ghobe]

The reason I posted such a stupid 'difficulty' is to point out the fact this game can be made 'hard'. Usually through artificial means, i.e. removing mods,low level frame, running things solo, etc. 

 

Or just by using forma on your weapons and frame and re-leveling them so you can put higher energy mods in them. 

 

I don't believe I was being insulting, just being facetious. I don't think you needed to be insulting in your reply. 

 

P.S. - BTW, that was a nice solo run, all joking aside. Mag is not my best frame..

The argument you used is a pretty common one when difficulty comes up, and it's usually used to attack the people asking the developers to develop content for the gear that they put in the game. Difficulty should always be put on the shoulders of the developers, not the players.

 

EDIT: And just to touch on this, we're talking about mechanic difficulty, not just number difficulty.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Ghobe

[DeltaF0rce]

No one is going to touch my precious Rocket Launcher.

[Carcharias]

 

EDIT: And just to touch on this, we're talking about mechanic difficulty, not just number difficulty.

^^ This. ^ So much. ^ This right here. ^^

 

 

Some better mechanics and AI would be nice. Of course not falling through the floor would be nice too. IMO this game wasn't ready for beta. People hit the end way too quickly. And you're right I shouldn't have to drop a mod to keep the game interesting, the only reason I do that now is because this game is in beta and I am trying my best to have patience. After all look how long Firefall has been in beta and all the changes it's gone through. I choose to believe (hope) that we are still at the beginning of the trail. The Devs are gonna have to do something for an end game, least if they want to make moneys for some number of years they're gonna have to. Cause right now a lot of players are already done.

[Aidith]

^^ This. ^ So much. ^ This right here. ^^

 

 

Some better mechanics and AI would be nice. Of course not falling through the floor would be nice too. IMO this game wasn't ready for beta. People hit the end way too quickly. And you're right I shouldn't have to drop a mod to keep the game interesting, the only reason I do that now is because this game is in beta and I am trying my best to have patience. After all look how long Firefall has been in beta and all the changes it's gone through. I choose to believe (hope) that we are still at the beginning of the trail. The Devs are gonna have to do something for an end game, least if they want to make moneys for some number of years they're gonna have to. Cause right now a lot of players are already done.

Level more frames and weapons. Build every frame and weapon. Try different things with different frames/powers/weapons.

 

And really, if you have any problem with difficulty, seriously try any mission(other then defense) solo. And I mean really do the mission, don't run through it but don't crawl through it either. The number of enemies does make a mission 'harder'. I don't agree this should be the solution to making the game 'harder' as all I do is solo and it is very annoying to turn your back on a room you cleared less then 5 seconds before and have 20+ enemies spawn along with the 20+ in the room in front of you. And they do this endlessly. My average kills on a solo mission is into the hundreds, and would be infinity if I didn't eventually get tired of it and ran past them once I finished the objective. I've also noticed they tend to start increasing in health, shields, and armor over time.

 

I HATE that. The 'difficulty' should not be artificially inflated by using cheap tactics such as the ones the devs are using now. But, as we are still in beta, and AI is arguably one of the most difficult(if not the most difficult thing in a game) to program, I am willing to see past this and continue to try and have fun with the game as is. If it continues past beta...I guess I'll have to make a decision when faced with it, to move onto something else or not. But, expecting a game to have AI that is even slightly difficult to the average player(especially when we have such powerful weapons and abilities in comparison to the NPC's) when it is still in beta, is asking a lot of any developer.

 

Four human players that work together to take out the AI on any game that doesn't cheat in some way, is going to be 'easy', no matter what. No matter how good the 'AI' is, it will never be as good as 4 competent players that have good communication and have weapon and frame load-outs that complement each other. Look at any co-op game ever made(where the npc/ai doesn't have an innate advantage/cheat) and tell me I'm wrong.

 

Until 'real' AI is invented/discovered/whatever, there will never be a substitute for people working together towards a common goal, no matter what that goal may be.

[PaperAlien]

Clearly its an issue.. so it needs to be fixed ASAP. I spent my $$ in this game, just like you. When I cant even participate in the game due to overpowered rockets everywhere, what moneys worth am I getting?

I spent $$ in this and now ppl using op weapons to steal my kills in a coop game why i even pay moeny for this waah waah waah 2ez waah

[fatpig84]

Press 4 ftw :p

[PrivateAli]

One question and one answer:

Question: Do any of you play solo?

Answer: Obviously not.

 

Feel free to dispute with a video of yourself soloing pluto with no mods and a lvl 1 frame,say... loki. And don't forget, all level 1 weapons. Plus,perma-death,you go down, you loose all weapons and your frame.

 

You want to make the game hard,there you go.

 

After your uberness has completed pluto, then talk about how easy this game is.

 

 

It's not even about the all the levels, pluto is perfectly fine, it's about things like Mars or Neptune which are barely a challenge. If you can solo War on Mars (vs. Nef Anyo) with a Lvl1 Snipetron Vandal WITHOUT HUD (and Loki without Redirection or Vitality, Sprint Mods and Flow only), that should say a lot about the current difficulty of this game. This is not about me, I am pretty sure a lot of players could play Lvl24 and below missions without HUD or a red dot in the middle of their screen.

 

Neptune - Hyena Level should IMO be around 30-40 (similar to Eris) to be a little bit of a challenge. And the Hyena should stop turning upside down rendering itself useless when being hit by Rhino Stomp.

[Tatersail]

option to 4x all mob levels would be nice

 

Putting most missions at 80-120

and the outside ones like Pluto at 150-200
 

 

that would feel balanced to where my frames and gear is atm

Edited July 10, 2013 by Tatersail

[Aidith]

Like I said yesterday, there is never going to be a time(at least with current technology) where the AI is going to be able to beat a team of co-ordinated individuals. There will never be a time where you can't say it's too easy because, without cheating(i'm looking at you insta-kill head shots from all the way across the map using iron sights in COD) the AI is, at the end of the day, extremely limited in capability. No computer is smart, the person that coded whatever program you are running is the smart one. A computer can only 'think' in two very rigid ways, off and on, all the rest is done by a person, and no person or team of people can come up with every possible scenario that a player might try. Thus, the feeling of 'stupid AI'. Until a computer can 'think' somewhere between off and on, the so called 'grey area' and get up to speed with a humans biological brain speed and start to learn on there own, 'stupid AI' will always exist. 

 

Here's a little tidbit after a quick google search:

"To put our findings in perspective, the 6.4*10^18 instructions per second that human kind can carry out on its general-purpose computers in 2007 are in the same ballpark area as the maximum number of nerve impulses executed by one human brain per second."

That's 64,000,000,000,000,000,000 Hz or 64,000,000,000 GHz .

So,even if you could program the 'grey area' and introduce a program that could learn on it's own, you would have to have a CPU that could perform that workload plus all the other various functions of your OS/Gaming/Etc.

The Intel i7-930 with all 4 cores going at maximum is around 11.733 GHz(adding all the cores 'turbo' speeds together, it's actual rated turbo speed is 3.066 GHz). So, it would take around 5,454,700,417.625 i7-930's (using the 11.733 GHz number), which retail,per chip, at around $330 US, putting cost for just the processing power at around $1,800,051,137,816.42 US. I suppose you could get a bulk discount, but I don't think very many of us have around $1 trillion US burning a hole in our pocket, not to mention all the ram,mb's,heat sinks,hd's,power supplies,a facility to house them in,the power required to run all of that,the knowledge of how to 'network' all those CPU's together (not even going into diminishing returns per cpu here), etc,etc.

I could go on, but I think this wall of text is enough.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Aidith