Take Off Attack (V) Polarity Mod Slot On Loki (Maybe Nyx Too)

[kirauriel]

First: D slots are normally reserved for tank frames, not your 10 armor Nyx or your 50 armor Loki.

 

Second: Continuity is not just an OK choice for both these warframes It's an excellent choice due to it scaling with their most used abilities.

 

Third: Enemy sense? Really?

 

Forth: Since this is all just your personal opinion how about you just forma your warframe instead of trying to contort the entire community to the way you want to play.

 

First: No they're not. Stamina mods. And if you read the OP, you'll see I'm actually in favor of trading it for a utility slot, but I feel the attack slot is worse off.

 

Second and Fourth: It may be a personal opinion but so is yours. I'm just saying it seems more logical to put a utility slot for a warframe with utility powers.

 

Third: What's wrong with that? I'm sorry that I like knowing what's around me. Is it cheap? Useless? That's okay, it's your personal opinion, and just like you don't seem to care about mine I don't care about yours. /sarcasm

 

Seriously though, half this thread has been ridicule of me. I could've sworn Warframe had a better community, what happened?

 

And yes, Enemy Sense, really. With how overpowered Energy Siphon is, I would love to have both that and Enemy Radar. It's immensely useful on defense missions to know when to use abilities, when to cloak for the next room, when to wait for your team, or to help find those silly glitched enemies under floors or stuck in a corner.

[kirauriel]

We are being positive about the V slot.

It's you who is being negative. And it's just you not realizing that it works well on Loki. okbye

Oh I'm sorry. Who's the one who said I "don't know how to Warframe"? I think that's pretty negative. Troll elsewhere, your input isn't wanted or needed.

Oh yea, and it's called a suggestion, not an "implement this nao." I'm simply supporting my side of the debate. It's called persuasion with Logos.

Edit: Oh yea, if Continuity is so OP on Invisibility, why not nerf it by removing the V slot? Win-win situation.

Edit: Ignore previous edit, I'm blind.

Edited July 10, 2013 by ProjectRay12

[Jugganatha]

Second and Fourth: It may be a personal opinion but so is yours. I'm just saying it seems more logical to put a utility slot for a warframe with utility powers.

There's the problem. I couldn't put it into words until you mentioned it. The problem is that his utility powers take advantage of what appears to be an offensively oriented mod. I kind of addressed this in one of my other posts. Basically the only thing that matters is that his utility benefits from it as well, and that the mod is labeled as offensive type because it applies to things that are relevant to more than just Loki (just look at Saryn's Miasma, which benefits from Continuity by gaining an extra damage tick).

 

That V slot was very specific, and I guess that stood out as strange to you. Worry not, time will tell (when you get Continuity) whether you change your mind or not. It would seem that Loki was designed to rely on Continuity from the get go, hence the seemingly out of place V slot.

[kirauriel]

There's the problem. I couldn't put it into words until you mentioned it. The problem is that his utility powers take advantage of what appears to be an offensively oriented mod. I kind of addressed this in one of my other posts. Basically the only thing that matters is that his utility benefits from it as well, and that the mod is labeled as offensive type because it applies to things that are relevant to more than just Loki (just look at Saryn's Miasma, which benefits from Continuity by gaining an extra damage tick).

 

That V slot was very specific, and I guess that stood out as strange to you. Worry not, time will tell (when you get Continuity) whether you change your mind or not. It would seem that Loki was designed to rely on Continuity from the get go, hence the seemingly out of place V slot.

All right, I'll trust you, but I still find the fact that DE, who wants more customization in Frames, would make it so that they want a certain specific mod on one.

[XCodes]

I Loki, and I don't put Continuity on him.  If I need 15 second invisibility instead of 12 second invisibility, then I just press 2 again.  I have energy to burn, anyway, from 45% reduced power cost and Energy Siphon.  Besides, if I'm serious about my stealthing and pull out my Orthos, nothing's going to be alive after 5 seconds, nevermind 12.

In other words, I forma'd that V to a - like it should have been in the first place, because even if we look at the theme of V mods instead of the V mods themselves... They just don't fit Loki anywhere near as well as a -.  The idea that Loki is shat on as one of the worst frames in the game (by people who don't know how to play, granted, but still) is coupled with the idea that it's OK to give him a Forma tax to use 6 mod slots in the best possible way, and it's ridiculous.  Make Loki D -.

[jonathan8883]

There are several warframes with this problem... and have been several threads on the topic.

[AttackNitro]

Oh I'm sorry. Who's the one who said I "don't know how to Warframe"? I think that's pretty negative. Troll elsewhere, your input isn't wanted or needed.

Oh yea, and it's called a suggestion, not an "implement this nao." I'm simply supporting my side of the debate. It's called persuasion with Logos.

Edit: Oh yea, if Continuity is so OP on Invisibility, why not nerf it by removing the V slot? Win-win situation.

No one said it was OP, because it isn't. Additionally, DE said they won't nerf things anymore, but buff things to match it.

 

Also my if input wasn't what you wanted then you shouldn't have made this thread in the first place. The only reason you are being "ridiculed" is because your opinion is widely unpopular with the rest of us.

[kirauriel]

I Loki, and I don't put Continuity on him.  If I need 15 second invisibility instead of 12 second invisibility, then I just press 2 again.  I have energy to burn, anyway, from 45% reduced power cost and Energy Siphon.  Besides, if I'm serious about my stealthing and pull out my Orthos, nothing's going to be alive after 5 seconds, nevermind 12.

In other words, I forma'd that V to a - like it should have been in the first place, because even if we look at the theme of V mods instead of the V mods themselves... They just don't fit Loki anywhere near as well as a -.  The idea that Loki is shat on as one of the worst frames in the game (by people who don't know how to play, granted, but still) is coupled with the idea that it's OK to give him a Forma tax to use 6 mod slots in the best possible way, and it's ridiculous.  Make Loki D -.

 

Thank you, this is what I'm trying to get at exactly.

 

There are several warframes with this problem... and have been several threads on the topic.

 

I'd rather make a new thread than necro an old one. Either way I'll probably get yelled at so might as well make it my own post.

 

No one said it was OP, because it isn't. Additionally, DE said they won't nerf things anymore, but buff things to match it.

 

Also my if input wasn't what you wanted then you shouldn't have made this thread in the first place. The only reason you are being "ridiculed" is because your opinion is widely unpopular with the rest of us.

Invisibility with continuity is the best thing about Loki. OP you don't know how to warframe.

 

 

 

Sorry, misread that because I was tired. My fault there *facepalm*.

[XCodes]

No one said it was OP, because it isn't. Additionally, DE said they won't nerf things anymore, but buff things to match it.

 

Also my if input wasn't what you wanted then you shouldn't have made this thread in the first place. The only reason you are being "ridiculed" is because your opinion is widely unpopular with the rest of us.

You're not ridiculing him, you're being an A******. Loki is not a directly offensive warframe, therefore having a polarity slot that is geared towards directly offensive mods is nonsensical.  On top of that, anything Continuity does with Loki, Streamline does better.  Calling a change in polarity from V to - a nerf is asinine.

Maybe we should shift the argument a bit.  Loki is the Warframe with the fastest base speed in the game, and high mobility with Switch Teleport (particularly in combination with Decoy).  What are mods that contribute to speed and mobility?  Acrobatics (D), Handspring (-), Marathon (D), Quick Rest (D), and Rush (-).  Since some of his mobility is through powers, you could even make an argument that Flow (-), Streamline (-), and Stretch (-) also enhance his mobility, albeit indirectly.  In other words, for the most part the mods that directly play to the strength of Loki are - polarity mods, so why the hell does Loki NOT have a - polarity?  The D mod makes more sense than the V mod, particularly since the D mod can also be used for some of the above mobility mods (playing to his strength) or Redirection or Fast Deflection, playing into Loki's offensive style as a skirmisher.

Loki not having a - polarity is ridiculous, and a fault in his design.  Between his current D and V polarities, the V makes substantially less sense than the D.  Therefore, change the V polarity to a - polarity.

[Dipstick]

continuity is good on loki

[Ferriwind]

+1 to Loki having a V polarity

 

+0 to original post

[XCodes]

continuity is good on loki

A mod slot for 3-4 seconds of invisibility that I never needed in the first place is not good.  Not by any stretch of the imagination.

[Ferriwind]

Invisibility is arguably Loki's most reliable ability.

 

Now, if you max every mod, then a utility polarization will save you more points, but in terms of a core mod, Continuity is, imo, more important than every other utility except for Streamline. And it's 30% extra duration of Invisibility.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Stygi

[XCodes]

Invisibility is arguably Loki's most reliable ability.

 

Now, if you max every mod, then a utility polarization will save you more points, but in terms of a core mod, Continuity is, imo, more important than every other utility except for Streamline. And it's 30% extra duration of Invisibility.

As it so happens, Streamline and Continuity have the exact same cost, so if you put Streamline in your - polarity instead of Continuity in your V polarity, then absolutely nothing changes, unless you decide you want to use Master Thief (in which case it's a flat buff).

[kirauriel]

At least one person understands where I'm coming from, thanks XCodes. And thank you Jugganatha for at least providing a valid counter-argument.

[Jugganatha]

Invisibility is arguably Loki's most reliable ability.

 

Now, if you max every mod, then a utility polarization will save you more points, but in terms of a core mod, Continuity is, imo, more important than every other utility except for Streamline. And it's 30% extra duration of Invisibility.

Underlined is truth. I must note that disregarding Flow, using max Streamline sans Continuity gives you more total invisibility time than the other way around.

 

Edit Note: This is actually a coincidental result of the recent change to power efficiency.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Jugganatha

[FLSH_BNG]

I have to disagree with removing the 'V' from Nyx. My Continuity is a must have to keep her effective against hordes of enemies. Mind controlling an ancient or heavy is a great, cheap way of distracting the rest, and the longer I can keep that up, the better. If the 'V' goes, then Continuity gets changed to the new polarity too.

 

As has been mentioned before, if you don't like a polarity, then you have the option to change it: use Forma and pick whichever one you like, problem solved.

[basilioss]

Just be glad you aren't a Banshee who starts off with 2 V-slots.

[XCodes]

Just be glad you aren't a Banshee who starts off with 2 V-slots.

Uh, Banshee is a high-powered, offensive Sniper/Nuke frame.  2 V slots makes perfect sense for her, and both Focus and Continuity are completely justified and absolutely powerful on that frame.  Loki is a defensive mobility and utility frame.  V affinities really don't make any sense at all for Loki.

[Estred]

Uh, Banshee is a high-powered, offensive Sniper/Nuke frame.  2 V slots makes perfect sense for her, and both Focus and Continuity are completely justified and absolutely powerful on that frame.  Loki is a defensive mobility and utility frame.  V affinities really don't make any sense at all for Loki.

Continuity:

- Doesn't add damage ticks to Sound Quake

- Doesn't add anything to Sonic Boom

- Silence is not worth it

- It only effects Sonar but if you can't kill things with Sonar as it is, probably should work on your aim.

 

Focus: I will agree there as without it Sound Quake is weaksauce.

 

Banshee works well with sniper weapons, that's about it and demolishes weaker enemies.

[XCodes]

Continuity:

- Doesn't add damage ticks to Sound Quake

- Doesn't add anything to Sonic Boom

- Silence is not worth it

- It only effects Sonar but if you can't kill things with Sonar as it is, probably should work on your aim.

 

Focus: I will agree there as without it Sound Quake is weaksauce.

 

Banshee works well with sniper weapons, that's about it and demolishes weaker enemies.

Focus also works with Sonar, and Sonar Duration is helpful against Bosses (or, at the very least, against Assassination Alerts).  Also, as I said, Banshee's theme is very heavily offensive.  Call it a lore justification if you must, but VV makes sense for Banshee.  DV does not make sense for Loki.

Edited July 11, 2013 by XCodes

[Estred]

Focus also works with Sonar, and Sonar Duration is helpful against Bosses (or, at the very least, against Assassination Alerts).  Also, as I said, Banshee's theme is very heavily offensive.  Call it a lore justification if you must, but VV makes sense for Banshee.  DV does not make sense for Loki.

Focus I know works for Sonar, that's why it's good. My point was Continunity is not. Rage is also not viable for her she is squishy. So I would say let Continuity add more damage-ticks to Sound Quake by making it last longer. Granted would still be nice to not have to channel it; at least it's not as bad as Absorb is.

[XCodes]

Focus I know works for Sonar, that's why it's good. My point was Continunity is not. Rage is also not viable for her she is squishy. So I would say let Continuity add more damage-ticks to Sound Quake by making it last longer. Granted would still be nice to not have to channel it; at least it's not as bad as Absorb is.

Not all nuker frames can be as OP as Saryn, who I'd like to point out is D - for some reason.  Not exactly complaining, since it matches up with Vitality and Rush, but it doesn't make much sense to me.

[Estred]

Not all nuker frames can be as OP as Saryn, who I'd like to point out is D - for some reason.  Not exactly complaining, since it matches up with Vitality and Rush, but it doesn't make much sense to me.

I don't believe I mentioned Sayrn and really because her ult ignores armor/resistance that's why it's strong. The goal eventually is to bring all frames up to Vaubin's level of all 4 Abilities are fun and worthwhile to use in different ways. I know for my Banshee I only needed 1 V slot. Another here has said that too.

[XCodes]

If you only want/need one V slot for Banshee, then that's fine.  Using both and getting some benefit from it is still possible with Banshee right now.  The fact that Loki can potentially use a V slot to do something slightly useful (but totally not justified by the opportunity cost) is only one part of the argument.  The other part is that D - matches the Loki's actual playstyle WAY better than D V.  On the other hand, it makes complete sense for Banshee to have V V polarities.

Also, someone said that changing Loki from D V to D - was a nerf.  It's not.  Continuity, the only mod you will ever put in that V slot, takes up 9 capacity at most.  On the other hand, three - mods that are candidates for that - polarity are Master Thief, Rush, and Streamline, which take up 13, 11, and 9, respectively.  Streamline w/o Continuity has already been established to be better than Continuity w/o Streamline, and really Streamline is just a plain good mod even if you do pick up Continuity, so, at a minimum, you will get the exact same benefit from that polarity slot.  You can also, instead, use that slot for Rush, and now you get 1 extra space for other mods, or 2 when/if you use Master Thief.  TL;DR D - on Loki is numerically superior to D V.

Edited July 11, 2013 by XCodes