Oberon rant.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

3 hours ago, Evanescent said:

Which is non-constructive and gets locked really fast. And it also keeps the fires up and running when they might have died.

'Enjoyable' is subjective. 'Good' is not, because you can objectively measure how refined the frame is in accomplishing its tasks. Nidus is good, nothing subjective about it. He survives well enough, does damage well enough. You see?

Why am I getting an AGGP vibe here lol. I don't know if the topic was made after seeing his video but just felt like mentioning it.

It is also hard to maintain, no? Lets not forget how draining Oberon's heal is, yeah?

I think we both know that puncture proc is gone too soon to really matter. See, Equinox can consistenly slow her enemies down AND give you more DR. That's much better CC and support than Oberon.

Let's not pretend the blind is a part of the cc, because it lasts for 5s while you recover from the animation for 4, so by the time you're ready to do something they're not blinded again. Radiation is a nice CC, I'll give you that.

Equinox is also versatile, just in a different way than Oberon is. If you go back to the older Devstreams, you'll hear that she was designed to shine with players who knew when to use what form on the go. You see what you're doing here? The same thing you're criticizing people for doing. You're comparing a dedicated support frame to Oberon. The reason she is brought up so much is because her overlap with him is much larger than the others.

Um....it also blinds enemies in a nice, wide cone. And can be recast to much greater effect than smite. It's better CC for cheaper and because it just stops them shooting or doing whatever the hek they were doing. Pair a good weapon and enemy scaling does not affect you in the slightest. Let us also not forget it affects more enemies than smite ever could, shall we?

Straight up? Yeah. But damage potential and scaling is still better than Smite because it lasts longer, completely shuts down finishers and also heals. Stoping an enemy outright is far better than a proc that just removes 30% dmg, for a very, very short time, no?

How? Inaros lets his team rest completely easy and potentially insta kill them.

Negligible, because you mostly only need to cast it once, and it's CC will completely shut down the map if you cast it right. The healing you get negate the cost of picking his ehp right back up.

This is a hit and a miss. True, Inaros needs a target, but you are likely to need healing in the heat of combat with plenty nearby. Depending on number of eemies you not only outheal Oberon but also put the enture mob on CC for your team to make mincemeat out of. If ally is that far out of range, they would have gone down anyway be it Oberon or any other healing frame. Stick with the team.

This is not really true, because depending on the number of enemies you hit, you will compensate for the power str by sheer number of healing targets. It is also not hard to fit in a str mod to offset some of that, and for much less expensive setups than what Oberon needs.

Again, why are you comparing Oberon with a dedicated CC healer-tank? Wait, who does that sound like....I joke, but you must see just how close they come. If they weren't separate by targeted healing they would pretty much be head to head.

Sandstorm is also great CC, you know? You can be a meatshield for your allies, completely disrupt and ragdoll enemies in an entire room, and also insta kill them if you have a pit nearby.

People don't compare him to trin, they compare his heals to trin's. True, it's burst healing, but with the DR she's able to get you and the energy, and the health, you can really not stand up to her potential. No frame can.

You were going fine until you started talking about Nidus' cc...Nidus doesn't need CC, but if he does, he has his maggots, and his tentacles. If you want to talk about how inconsistent they are, same can be said of rad procs as cc.

We were, tbh, told he was getting a rework and that's it in the beginning. If they'd said just a touch up people would never have gotten their hopes up.

Again, I am getting a lot of AGGP's video from here.

Until you run out of energy? Maybe your teammates kill everything before enemies hit you for rage and give you energy back? Maybe all that hallowed ground casting is running your energy stores dry? 

Nonononono, that's not what forced synergy means. Forced synergy means to get the benefit out of something you have to use something else with it, instead of each one being fine on their own and fitting together like a jugsaw when used together. For example, Nidus 1,2 and 4. On their own, perfectly fine. Neither needs the other. But 2 can make using 1 easier, and 1 and 2 can work with 4 to stack easier, deal more dmg to more enemies quickly. Whereas for oberon, if you don't have a hallowed ground on, you don't get armor from renewal, a key part of its benefit, and armor stripping for reckoning which makes it another press 4 to deal damage ability with some rad proc sprinkles.

Benefit is better, but not the way to get it.  Also your entire post has been about how Oberon isn't like other frames, not why his abilities aren't forced synergy. Energyak is precisely the problem, because casting hallowed ground and renewal that takes energy to cast, maintain and heal is too expensive.

I like Oberon. I don't think he needs major changes, but he does need some. He is 'fine' does not mean he can't be better. I also do not see why buffs can be detrimental to how Oberon is. Like, Oberon mains, how is an increase to his power pool going to wreck your playstyle? 

What I got from this thread was incoherent rambling, most of which I find influenced from other sources. What were you trying to accomplish? I'm sorry if I sound confrontational here, but you're doing exactly you're blaming other for doing. 

Oberon can be made to work now, with expensive mods and a lot of contrivance. He is even somewhat good. But he still needs more tuning. Let us not just sit on 'fine' and shut of further communication. Let people state what they want for him, and DE can make sense of that.

That is all.

Woah.  Just wana say that even if our views are not the same I appreciate the long thought out reply you gave.  thanks man.

1) Already been qued in by this but thanks.  And maybe.  But I feel it's still being discussed enough for it to be relevant.  Versus if I went to go make a complaint about us playing as kids when that has actually died away.

2) It still is subjective imo.  Like mag imo is good at what she does.  But lots of people will disagree with that. We'd have to define good if you wana go your route and simply naming a frame is "good" means nothing unless you outline with detail on why.

3) Well I do watch him yes.  But it's true what's what a lot of people are doing.  someone who's flexible like oberon isn't supposed to be as good as someone in a dedicated role.  his shtick is bringing in a bag of things to do.  Which is why people started claiming other frames were jacks and better at it than he is.

4) Depends really.  Rage+ a big energy pool kind of helps with that.  My oberon (currently on console mind you) runs rage and uses the rakta cernos.  I did just start working on zenurik.  But I used him pre that and I didn't have much issue keeping up his energy.  I mean it's a negative for sure compared to trinity who never has energy issues.  But I think how it works is better in a majority of situations compared to other healers.

5) I think you're confusing better with conventional. yeah the puncture can last longer.  but it's still saved me a few different times in solo survival.  As I already pointed out the DR you get is directly from how close you are to an enemy.  Which means it's not consistent compared to oberon's being a flat EHP buff at unlimited range.  and the only special thing to get this is be standing on hollow when you get hit by renewal.  then you're free to go.  I forgoed the slow because it's not something that's in her kit without an augment.  I also mentioned in my thing about equinox that with one of her other augments.  I don't count augments because they change how the base kit is.  and not everyone runs one.  My equinox currently doesn't use an augment.  For simplicity sake it's easier to compare when we talk about what's available to everyone when they pick up the kit.

6) The blind might not be as useful for you.  but it could save an ally.  which like with puncture is worth mentioning.

7) I'm comparing because other people did.  I don't think they are comparable for that very reason.  My main point with equinox is you don't get the flexibility oberon gets.  you can't use rest with maim.  as an example.  You do bring more options numbers wise compared to most frames.  where as oberon's abilities do a lot of things by default and it doesn't require you to do anything other than cast it.  the abilities will do or not do their many things dependent on what happens after it effects a target.  Again.  i'm only drawing a comparsion because others did.  IMO equinox isn't a jack.  and thus can't be compared to him.

8) I use inaros a lot i'm well aware of what his 1 can do.  Not everyone brings a covert lethality dagger with them on his team.  So the finisher aspect is really only there for the user. Yes it does stop people via a blind.  Still doesn't change that smite's 1 does more damage.  And his ability does more compared to inaros in a numbers sense.  Puncture reduces their damage output to you and allies.  and if they become rad procced they stop shooting you and start shooting eachother which accomplishes what blind does in a way plus gives you free damage.

9) As I already mentioned the finisher point is moot for anyone on your team unless they run covert lethality.  As you read further on the heals are not great with inaros unless you spec for power strength.  which most inaros are not doing. I think the extra damage, slightly less damage from enemies, and a potential for free damage from the enemy shooting eachother is more beneficial in a team sense than a cast which primarily and majorily aids just the user.  (IMO inaros is a sellfish tank that helps people by proxy. Not on purpose.)

10) again.  not everyone runs that mod.  and if pocket sand had a much bigger AOE maybe.

11) yes and no.  If you are smart with your targeting you can nab a group for good CC and get it back relatively easy.  But if you nail a singular enemy on his own it's more detrimental.  And since you'd be walking around casting your swarm at enemies near spread out allies it could potentially kill you.  Swarm also needs some time to spread.  Either way you're still sacrificing EHP. where as oberon only has to give up energy.

12) I think you missed the point.  Oberon's heal and increase to EHP isn't bound by range.  Yes if they are far away from the group they can prolly go down even with my renewal being constantly on them.  But the point here is that his heal/ehp is better than inaros's because it's not bound by range.  and doesn't require any kind of significant sacrifice or enemy to do so.  That's also sort of the issue.  as soon as the CCed group by swarm is dead your heals stop.  oberon's doesn't.

13) With swarm yes.  With his heals from pocket sand and...fudge.  I forget his ability that lets you devour enemies or keeps them stuck in one spot.  Both of those are severly bad heals without STR. que me into this?  Because my current no forma inaros can't fit an STR mod on without sacrificing some survivability.  I didn't mention sandstorm because I don't know how to feel about it.  a good argument can be made either way on how bad it is or how beneficial it can be.

14) This is true.  But I was talking about frames that people overall compare to him.  Though I suppose it was a bit improper wording at the start on me.  It's true as far as heals go nothing is going to stand up to her.  But in my opinion I feel how oberon supports overall is enough to stand next to trin as something to consider when going in on a mission.  I still think he's slightly better though just because his heals are constant.  where as with trinity if you make one mistake on a cast or don't do it in time you can lose your team.

15) wether or not he needs CC nidus was brought up by people as a jack because he's got damage, cc, survivability, and support.  and as i've already explained a jack means you're not focused in a single role.  where as nidus is all about surviving.  Yes and no.  Hollow's rad proc is based on power strength.  I dunno if you can get it to proc rad 100% of the time.  but you can make it happen very often.  and reckoning always procs rad I believe.  smite is the only inconsistent one.

16) Sorry but nah man.  they called the whole thing a re work.  but they specifically told us before they even showed off footage that all they were doing was adding scaling and synergy.  Even if you missed that before hand the reveal of the gameplay should have been the big que that he wasn't going to be changed in a major way.  (though imo he kind of has because now he's actually kind of tanky.) AGGP is someone I watch yes.

17) I don't have any energy issues with my current setup.  Neither do some builds post rework.  yes he is energy hungry.  But there are ways around it.  if you are smart about your play and your ability use you really shouldn't run out of energy.  My example was to show how when everything comes together it;s actually quite cool.  Nothing more nothing less.

18) See you're telling me I was wrong here.  but you go on to say exactly what I said and you called that wrong.  Oberon's abilities are not bad on their own.  they are worth using.  They just get more when casted in conjunction with his other abilities.  I really don't see how adding more effects in when doing this is considered forced.  When the parasites on nidus's 4 are not really worth anything on their own unless you detonate them with his 1.

19) So you're telling me it's bad because the other way was easier and cost less energy.  even though pre patch the extra armor meant nothing.  so it being easier to get and costing less didn't actually matter.  what.  Energy isn't expensive on anyone.  Some builds only need decent efficency.  some need that and some duration.  Others need both+ a weapon or zenurik.  The only frame I can think of that needs more is saryn.  I've already acknowledged that his energy consumption is a downside.  But it's easily played around.  Just as when I tried talking about you needing power STR for inaros heals you stated you can compensate that with enemies.

20) If you came away from this thinking That I believe oberon doesn't need further tweaking then I apologize.  I don't think he's perfect as is.  he most certainly can receive more tweaks.  My point is that he's plenty viable now.  and I was trying to tackle other people's claims made with this thread.  I really don't get how a single thing I said was anything close to "incoherent rambling."  yeah some of my view is infulenced by AGGP.  but.  that doesn't mean I didn't feel anything close to this before the video.  And why should that matter anyway?  How many people do you think are running around screaming about how "bad" he is due to brozime?  it's irrelevant to the discussion.

My goal was to tackle other claims made by people.  That is what I did.  You can't say i'm doing the same thing others are doing.  Because that means I can't argue about said people making comparisons.  in the strictest of terms yes.  I am comparing oberon to other dedicated frames.  But only in the context for this argument.  And that is acceptable because that needs to happen for me to be able to have this argument to begin with.  And telling me that irrelevant sentence is literally trying to defame any argument i've made and has no place in the discussion we're having.

Lastly no.  Nothing about his setup is expensive.  You don't need any special/difficult mod for him.  Anyone who's end game should already have the mods leveled that they would need for a good oberon build.  i'm perfectly fine with people continuing to offer feedback.  Not once did I say people can't.  So long as people are constructive and the suggested changes are inline with the current theme oberon has.  Asking for huge radical changes like making hollowed an aura that goes with you is asking for too much and thus imo makes it non constructive.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

12 minutes ago, FATEdPondera said:

I shudder to imagine how much headway we'd all make if people put as much effort into complaining as they did playing the game.

Really not needed.  The only way DE gets good feedback is if we are vocal.  It's not like this was me being unconstructive.

Also.  this implies one can't make threads and play the game.  you can do both. Try a more constructive point next time.  Or I just won't reply.

[FATEdPondera]

23 hours ago, (Xbox One)Knight Raime said:

Really not needed.  The only way DE gets good feedback is if we are vocal.  It's not like this was me being unconstructive.

Also.  this implies one can't make threads and play the game.  you can do both. Try a more constructive point next time.  Or I just won't reply.

And what a loss to the internet your silenced voice would be... ಠ_ಠ

It just gets annoying the way people constantly whine that he's not as good as such and such a frame, his ultimate is useless, blah blah blah on and on. The ones who say that clearly have no talent at analysis. Every single one of his abilities either debuffs an enemy or buffs or heals an ally, yet no one is talking about that. Even AGGP isn't talking about that. This is exactly what a paladin is supposed to be, yet... angry mob. Smh.

[(XBOX)BONANGER1]

There´s no complaining his good. He needs to be deleted ASAP. We have better warframes and those who are weak shall be purged.