RHINO AUGMENTS REWORK MAINLY

[Dohako]

10 minutes ago, ganjou234 said:

Iron Skin already has some cool builds imho. The only augment that need reworking is Piercing Roar.

I have my own ideas on a better Piercing Roar augment

My Idea can be found here: 

 

 

Thank you

[Hellmaker2004]

1 hour ago, Dohako said:

That's another thing people are going to the extreme of how insane the numbers could be like I want 100k IS against lvl 10 or something. That would be ridiculous 

There in lie the problem, perhaps this is a communication error but with the calculation and wording you gave us we get.

A*B*C = X = IronSkin EHP

Where in

A = Foe level.

B = Amount of foes in the vicinity.

C = 1000.

 

With this we can already start to see how the formula will get out of proportion really fast, lets use some generalized values.

With foes at level 10 and one foe in the near vicinity you get 10*1*1000 = 10000 IronSkin EHP.

With foes at level 10 and 10 foes in the near vicinity you get 10*10*1000 = 100000 IronSkin EHP.

And finally with foes at level 100 and 10 foes in the near vicinity you get 100*10*1000 = 1000000 IronSkin EHP.

 

Now raw values by itself hold very little meaning since we have nothing relatable to compare with so lets add Saryn Prime. A melee Caster and see where she end up.

Now since we rarely see any frame bare lets give her Maxed Vitality = +440% HP.

That will give us 300+(925/(225/(300+225))) = 2458, this is her total EHP before adding in damage type, a fair deal and since they both have the same armor type we can neglected it when we compare.

 

So Saryn a melee caster frame has at Level 30 with a Rank 10 Vitality a total of 2458 EHP, while Rhino can get more additive EHP from a single IronSkin cast against a single level 3 foe. This is how excessive the formula is and worse is that he scale with enemies meanwhile Saryn would stay at a constant EHP value.

 

The only thing that may have you confused is when we start talking about Ferrite. Ferrite is a armor TYPE not a amount. By default Warframes and the original IronSkin uses Ferrite as there armor type. Now when comparing EHP Ferrite is rarely mentioned because both participants have it therefore we can neglect it. It is however needed if you want to calculate a frames True EHP that differ depending on what faction and foes you are fighting.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Hellmaker2004

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Roar needs to draw agro. Also his iron skin Augment should turn the ability into a duration based that stops 95% dmg.

[Dohako]

23 hours ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

There in lie the problem, perhaps this is a communication error but with the calculation and wording you gave us we get.

A*B*C = X = IronSkin EHP

Where in

A = Foe level.

B = Amount of foes in the vicinity.

C = 1000.

 

With this we can already start to see how the formula will get out of proportion really fast, lets use some generalized values.

With foes at level 10 and one foe in the near vicinity you get 10*1*1000 = 10000 IronSkin EHP.

With foes at level 10 and 10 foes in the near vicinity you get 10*10*1000 = 100000 IronSkin EHP.

And finally with foes at level 100 and 10 foes in the near vicinity you get 100*10*1000 = 1000000 IronSkin EHP.

 

Now raw values by itself hold very little meaning since we have nothing relatable to compare with so lets add Saryn Prime. A melee Caster and see where she end up.

Now since we rarely see any frame bare lets give her Maxed Vitality = +440% HP.

That will give us 300+(925/(225/(300+225))) = 2458, this is her total EHP before adding in damage type, a fair deal and since they both have the same armor type we can neglected it when we compare.

 

So Saryn a melee caster frame has at Level 30 with a Rank 10 Vitality a total of 2458 EHP, while Rhino can get more additive EHP from a single IronSkin cast against a single level 3 foe. This is how excessive the formula is and worse is that he scale with enemies meanwhile Saryn would stay at a constant EHP value.

 

The only thing that may have you confused is when we start talking about Ferrite. Ferrite is a armor TYPE not a amount. By default Warframes and the original IronSkin uses Ferrite as there armor type. Now when comparing EHP Ferrite is rarely mentioned because both participants have it therefore we can neglect it. It is however needed if you want to calculate a frames True EHP that differ depending on what faction and foes you are fighting.

Last, my equation is simple whatever the enemy level is that is what should be multipied by 1000. If you are going up against lvl 30 enemy/enemies the ironskin stays at 30,000 no matter if there is 1 enemy or 20 enemies at a time. It scales mainly off the enemy level and not armor. All-in-all I offered these suggestions to removed synergy from this frame which hurting it badly to more utility to its entire kit. 

 

I still don't know how you are getting confused.

[Hellmaker2004]

On 2017-06-04 at 8:29 PM, Dohako said:

ron skin should NOT scale with armor, but instead scale with the enemies' level Equation: enemies' level (1) x 1000 = Ironskin hp(1000) and ironskin can be cast on and off at will.

enemies is the plural form of enemy.

So you said it was scaling from multiple foes.

 

Even then. the equation is still silly.

Can you really justify that a Rhino fighting a level 3 foe has more additive EHP than what Saryn has in total?

[Hoangviet1996]

If DE somehow approve this idea of yours then they are a bunch of idiots. This just take away all the relevant mod that we need to use in order to make Rhino viable.

Let say you go as a Stomp Rhino with negative Power Str and high Effi for a sole purpose ( CC) that have the same survivalbility of an IS Rhino. This alone make him too OP not to mention completely rule out every min max build.

I guess the next person like you would ask for something like an EV Trinity that has Bless duration and damage reduction scale arcording to enemy's level.

[Dohako]

On 6/6/2017 at 1:11 AM, Hellmaker2004 said:

enemies is the plural form of enemy.

So you said it was scaling from multiple foes.

 

Even then. the equation is still silly.

Can you really justify that a Rhino fighting a level 3 foe has more additive EHP than what Saryn has in total?

Last, my equation is simple whatever the enemy level is, that is what should be multiplied by 1000. If you are going up against lvl 30 enemy/enemies the ironskin stays at 30,000 no matter if there is 1 enemy or 20 enemies at a time. It scales mainly off the enemy level and not armor. All-in-all I offered these suggestions to removed synergy from this frame which hurting it badly to more utility to its entire kit. 

 

I still don't know how you are getting confused.

 

And what's up with you and EHP? Ironskin doesn't work like armor. There is a difference between damage absorption and damage mitigation.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Dohako

[Dohako]

On 6/6/2017 at 3:28 AM, Hoangviet1996 said:

If DE somehow approve this idea of yours then they are a bunch of idiots. This just take away all the relevant mod that we need to use in order to make Rhino viable.

Let say you go as a Stomp Rhino with negative Power Str and high Effi for a sole purpose ( CC) that have the same survivalbility of an IS Rhino. This alone make him too OP not to mention completely rule out every min max build.

I guess the next person like you would ask for something like an EV Trinity that has Bless duration and damage reduction scale arcording to enemy's level.

Who cares about the next person? Also this thread is mainly about suggestions on his augments. And another thing you don't even know how the stats are even going to be mapped out yet but you are calling it "OP."

[Hoangviet1996]

32 minutes ago, Dohako said:

Who cares about the next person? Also this thread is mainly about suggestions on his augments. And another thing you don't even know how the stats are even going to be mapped out yet but you are calling it "OP."

The fact that it render min maxing build irrelevant is enough OPness to begin with since what u are suggesting completely ignore Power Str.