Suggestion: Resource Drops

[Wojek]

Right, the problem with the p2convincence model isn't that I can pay to get stuff... I mean, I paid for every color scheme the game has available to me.

 

The problem is I'm paying to NOT PLAY THE GAME.

 

I want the game play and reward system to be more enjoyable, not something that's so bloody excruciating I want to avoid it alltogether. I want there to be a reasonable way to PLAY THE GAME for enjoyment WHILE GETTING STUFF TO ADVANCE.

 

Sure, I  could drop an hours worth of money made at work into plat and then into materials and avoid having to grind, but THIS IS A VIDEO GAME.  Why would I pay to not play? Instead, PLAYING SHOULD BE THE REWARD. I should find the very act of playing the video game to be enjoyable, and it's not right now, because the needed rare materials are only available in tedious and boring ways, and THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

 

Also, I support the idea that the alerts that currently drop only credits should instead give 2-4 RARE materials. Note, RARE materials, not 'here's a chance to get some materials OH LOOK NANO SPORES."

You sound angry. Take a break from playing once in a while. You are also already rewarding yourself when playing Warframe, because you're spending your free time on something that's fun. If it's not fun you should stop playing.

Furthermore you get rewarded for playing because you can get the stuff you want from playing just playing the game.

Just don't make it your main point of playing. If you okay to grind something of course you get annoyed because grinding is boring and repetitive. You just have to play the game for fun and you will then even get rare materials as a bonus!

Edited July 24, 2013 by Wojek

[ToeSama]

Furthermore you get rewarded for playing because you can get the stuff you want from playing just playing the game.

Just don't make it your main point of playing. If you okay to grind something of course you get annoyed because grinding is boring and repetitive. You just have to play the game for fun and you will then even get rare materials as a bonus!

 

The problem is, the reward of getting new items is often a large draw to many players, as well as the primary source of fun for many people. You can't just tell someone that they shouldn't find enjoyment in it, because it is a large part of the enjoyment of the game period. The game is heavily repetitive, and the gameplay has not received a substantial change to the way it handles that makes it both enjoyable and productive in ages, so most people who are after items are unlikely to find too much that the game will sell them on after a few weeks of play. The obvious solution is to improve the gameplay standard, but since such things take forever for DE to integrate into the system at a working and enjoyable pace (they STILL haven't even gotten nightmare mode to work right for crying out loud, even after, what, 4 hotfixes?), the most simplistic solution would be to fix drop rates to not suck so bad.

 

Myself, for example, I like not only getting the new items I want, but playing with them if I like how they handle. So I am able to find something fun to do while grinding. But most of the items in the game handle poorly, and weapons/frames that I have found most enjoyable to play with were items that I had to reach X mastery rank and build. I just do not like the way most of the weapons work in the game, but to get to the weapons I want to try out, I need the mastery points, so I have to play with as many weapons and frames as I can. It's a huge pain, and it makes it very hard to find any enjoyment from the heavy grinding the game often requires of me. Sometimes, not even using a weapon/frame I like can save me from the annoyance of the grind (trying to find a Blaze in nightmare mode is a royal b!tch)...

 

The acquisition of a variety of gear and goods is a high draw for players who enjoy being able to use their own set of customized equipment, or just enjoy collecting and raising a variety of items in games for the pleasure of it. If farming for this equipment is required, the grind will directly affect those people in terms of fun. It's not that the grind needs to go, but it DOES need to not take so freaking long and have such a low chance at success when X item is divided into Y parts that need to be scummed repeatedly for, be they mods to make that item stronger, or weapon parts/component materials to build said item in the first place.

[Wojek]

The problem is, the reward of getting new items is often a large draw to many players, as well as the primary source of fun for many people. You can't just tell someone that they shouldn't find enjoyment in it, because it is a large part of the enjoyment of the game period.

 

I never said the he can't have fun with getting new gear, I just said that he should stop playing if it isn't fun anymore or change the way he plays. As I already said, if you're not playing for fun anymore, but to grind, it's clear where you have gone wrong.

 

Myself, for example, I like not only getting the new items I want, but playing with them if I like how they handle. So I am able to find something fun to do while grinding. But most of the items in the game handle poorly, and weapons/frames that I have found most enjoyable to play with were items that I had to reach X mastery rank and build. I just do not like the way most of the weapons work in the game, but to get to the weapons I want to try out, I need the mastery points, so I have to play with as many weapons and frames as I can. It's a huge pain, and it makes it very hard to find any enjoyment from the heavy grinding the game often requires of me. Sometimes, not even using a weapon/frame I like can save me from the annoyance of the grind (trying to find a Blaze in nightmare mode is a royal b!tch)...

 

The mastery system is there to provide replayability. Otherwise everybody would just get the weapons he wants and then complain about there not being enough content or flashy toys for them to play around with. I understand that it can annoy people, but that's just how Warframe is (and will be?!?!).

 

 

The acquisition of a variety of gear and goods is a high draw for players who enjoy being able to use their own set of customized equipment, or just enjoy collecting and raising a variety of items in games for the pleasure of it. If farming for this equipment is required, the grind will directly affect those people in terms of fun. It's not that the grind needs to go, but it DOES need to not take so freaking long and have such a low chance at success when X item is divided into Y parts that need to be scummed repeatedly for, be they mods to make that item stronger, or weapon parts/component materials to build said item in the first place.

 

This is totally okay, keep on doing it as long as it's fun to you. However, you don't have to farm for stuff, since the only thing you can do in Warframe is playing the game. Just play the game and you will get what you want as a bonus! It's only a matter of looking at it differently. You don't have to do special missions or get achievments for killing bosses in a certain way or anything. There's nothing like this in the game (as you pointed out yourself with the gameplay improvements).

 

Let me put it this way. There's two ways to play Warframe, which are actually the same:

1. Play the game for fun, get materials/mods/BPs and build better gear.

2. Play the game to grind for materials/mods/BPs to build better gear and get annoyed at drop rates and so on.

 

In both cases you're playing the game, only that in one way you have fun and the other is annoying you.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Wojek

[G4bor]

That could work for Alerts.

In fact it would be better than the credit only alerts.....

I think there is not many player do the credit-only alerts, since u can earn more credit with an average PUG lvl20 def mission (and a lot of mod-card too). So it really would be fine to get a normal revard for the alerts (materials and mods, for example).

Edited July 25, 2013 by biorobi

[ToeSama]

I never said the he can't have fun with getting new gear, I just said that he should stop playing if it isn't fun anymore or change the way he plays. As I already said, if you're not playing for fun anymore, but to grind, it's clear where you have gone wrong.

 

Again, the goal for some people is to acquire the loot. In fact, I don't see any other goal in Warframe as far as a win condition. The problem is not the player, but the game. It has turned it's own winning condition into a luck based system.

 

The mastery system is there to provide replayability. Otherwise everybody would just get the weapons he wants and then complain about there not being enough content or flashy toys for them to play around with. I understand that it can annoy people, but that's just how Warframe is (and will be?!?!).

 

The mastery system is flawed in its execution because it REQUIRES players to play with weapons/frames/sentinels that they may not enjoy playing with until level 30 for the full benefit. It is a grind of its own kind, and not enjoyable. I've had to play with a lot of crappy things just for the mastery. This would not be an issue if I could acquire mastery from the same weapon/frame multiple times, but as this is not the case, the game is forcing me to do something I do not enjoy to get the most out of it. It is designed in a way that will never be fun. It is the picture perfect example of poor game design.

 

I would sooner not have anything new to do for a few weeks before a new update than to have to do something I will never enjoy doing to begin with.

 

This is totally okay, keep on doing it as long as it's fun to you. However, you don't have to farm for stuff, since the only thing you can do in Warframe is playing the game. Just play the game and you will get what you want as a bonus! It's only a matter of looking at it differently. You don't have to do special missions or get achievments for killing bosses in a certain way or anything. There's nothing like this in the game (as you pointed out yourself with the gameplay improvements).

 

Let me put it this way. There's two ways to play Warframe, which are actually the same:

1. Play the game for fun, get materials/mods/BPs and build better gear.

2. Play the game to grind for materials/mods/BPs to build better gear and get annoyed at drop rates and so on.

 

In both cases you're playing the game, only that in one way you have fun and the other is annoying you.

 

Games are designed with goals in mind. The acquisition of stuff is the only goal Warframe has currently, and until such a time in which they add more to it, it has no other purpose. The repetitive gameplay is a drag, and farming up new toys to play with for any other type of enjoyment in the mean time is the only solution it has offered to alleviate this repetitiveness, and even that is bogged down by the horrible drop tables and crappy mastery system getting in the way.

 

No, Warframe is a game about getting stuff. There is literally nothing else to do as a winning condition in the game, and will not be anything else until they add another goal to the game that has nothing to do with farming up items. I've played games with less farming based directives that were more fun just because they were not repetitive and did not punish me for not playing in a way I didn't enjoy... I am of the firm mind that the grind is killing the game far more than getting all of the new items between updates easily would... I could at the very least find my own fun if I could get what I'm after without grinding for weeks with nothing to show for it nine-tenths the time...

[Wojek]

Again, the goal for some people is to acquire the loot. In fact, I don't see any other goal in Warframe as far as a win condition. The problem is not the player, but the game. It has turned it's own winning condition into a luck based system.

 

I don't even know why still picked that up, but for me the discussion on this point is done. You said I had told somebody that he can't have fun with playing the game a certain way - whereas I only said that if he isn't having fun playing the game a certain way he should either stop or drop the game.

 

The mastery system is flawed in its execution because it REQUIRES players to play with weapons/frames/sentinels that they may not enjoy playing with until level 30 for the full benefit. It is a grind of its own kind, and not enjoyable. I've had to play with a lot of crappy things just for the mastery. This would not be an issue if I could acquire mastery from the same weapon/frame multiple times, but as this is not the case, the game is forcing me to do something I do not enjoy to get the most out of it. It is designed in a way that will never be fun. It is the picture perfect example of poor game design.

Then think of something better and make a new thread about it and I assure you, if it's a good idea, I will support it - but this doesn't have anything to do with the drop rates on resources.

 

I would sooner not have anything new to do for a few weeks before a new update than to have to do something I will never enjoy doing to begin with.

 

 

Agreed on this point, I think there needs to be some bug fixing done (especially regarding clipping through walls, changing the hostage so that he isn't the dumbest guy ever, finalizing the UI, etc) but remember, the dudes that make the new guns aren't the same as the dudes that do the bug fixing.

 

Games are designed with goals in mind. The acquisition of stuff is the only goal Warframe has currently, and until such a time in which they add more to it, it has no other purpose. The repetitive gameplay is a drag, and farming up new toys to play with for any other type of enjoyment in the mean time is the only solution it has offered to alleviate this repetitiveness, and even that is bogged down by the horrible drop tables and crappy mastery system getting in the way.

 

No, Warframe is a game about getting stuff. There is literally nothing else to do as a winning condition in the game, and will not be anything else until they add another goal to the game that has nothing to do with farming up items. I've played games with less farming based directives that were more fun just because they were not repetitive and did not punish me for not playing in a way I didn't enjoy... I am of the firm mind that the grind is killing the game far more than getting all of the new items between updates easily would... I could at the very least find my own fun if I could get what I'm after without grinding for weeks with nothing to show for it nine-tenths the time...

 

Okay, if this really is your opinion, you should also make a thread about this and think of some suggestion's that would change it. If you want to have other goals in Warframe then make some suggestions, these forums are here for exactly that. Quite a lot of things that were well thought-out and presented nicely have been picked up by the devs and guessing from the elaborate way you write, I'm sure you can do that, too.

 

However, I have to disagree with you still. You see, I don't see the new gear as a "goal". For me, Warframe has no goal. I only play it because I want to play it and nothing else. I dare call it a "zen-like state of mind". I don't need to care about drop rates or RNG or any of that. I just play the game because I want to play it. Nothing else. It's just me having some fun.

 

This is also what I pointed out a few times. If you want to have fun with Warframe, don't grind, don't farm, don't try to give the game a goal it doesn't have. Just play it and even you will find enjoyment.

However, don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to change. If you can make a thread with such great ideas that DE has to implement them, then do that and I will be happy for you because you were able to give Warframe a goal - just let me keep on playing.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Wojek

[fatpig84]

Again for the Token system.

[ToeSama]

I don't even know why still picked that up, but for me the discussion on this point is done. You said I had told somebody that he can't have fun with playing the game a certain way - whereas I only said that if he isn't having fun playing the game a certain way he should either stop or drop the game.

 

Because it is legitimate. You are telling someone to NOT have fun in the way they have fun. if you want to just mess around in the game, fine, but saying that "you shouldn't be playing like that if it makes you that upset" is doing nothing for the game but defending the bad design choices it makes.

 

The grind needs change. Period. Any other means of fun do not negate this. Telling someone to drop the game because of this is not offering anything to aid in making these changes come to light.

 

 

Then think of something better and make a new thread about it and I assure you, if it's a good idea, I will support it - but this doesn't have anything to do with the drop rates on resources.

 

It does actually. Building those weapons and frames that one would not enjoy playing with but still require the mastery for still takes time and effort to collect the needed materials, and in the case of rarer weapons and frames, need to grind up the required parts to do so. It ties in because it is all related to the grind. The mastery system is a resource sink that only serves to artificially inflate the game's play time.

 

There have been many threads calling for a variety of things to change the mastery system and no effort has been put to it. The one thing that made mastery tolerable, the ability to build a new version of X weapon/frame and re-level it for the mastery, was eventually removed, forcing players to play with items that they may not enjoy playing with to get to those they would enjoy playing with. It is eating away at time and resources that one could otherwise put into something they find fun, and thus affecting how certain materials (Plastids seem to be the current target of hate) are needing their drops increased. Fixing mastery would take some of the strain from it because one would never have to play with anything they don't WANT to in order to get the chance to play with those things they DO want to.

 

 

Agreed on this point, I think there needs to be some bug fixing done (especially regarding clipping through walls, changing the hostage so that he isn't the dumbest guy ever, finalizing the UI, etc) but remember, the dudes that make the new guns aren't the same as the dudes that do the bug fixing.

 

I fail to see the difference. If group A would build a system that works, group B wouldn't have to unscrew their mess ups in addition to fixing the bugs.

 

Also, bug fixes have nothing to do with my statement. I would sooner see no new content than to have to play with content I do not enjoy playing with in order to get to the new content I WOULD enjoy playing with.

 

 

Okay, if this really is your opinion, you should also make a thread about this and think of some suggestion's that would change it. If you want to have other goals in Warframe then make some suggestions, these forums are here for exactly that. Quite a lot of things that were well thought-out and presented nicely have been picked up by the devs and guessing from the elaborate way you write, I'm sure you can do that, too.

 

Thing is, I don't WANT a new goal. I've played many games of grind that were enjoyable, and that I supported for a very long time. It was how they rewarded my efforts that kept me satisfied. My efforts are being rewarded at the whims of a horrible system with Warframe, and it is frustrating. The gameplay changes outside of the grind that I would even call for have already been stated to be on their to do list. The ball's in their court at this point.

 

The grind IS my goal. It's just not rewarding me, and there is nothing else to do in the game. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with this approach to play or not. There are many other players with the same reason to play as I who are just as frustrated by the game as I. Unless change is made where I am rewarded properly at least half of the time, the game is not selling me. There's nothing this game hasn't done that other games out there haven't done much better save for being F2P with a wide variety of content available to enjoy.

 

And if I could find that content in the game without paying cash to buy platinum for it, I would enjoy it...

 

However, I have to disagree with you still. You see, I don't see the new gear as a "goal". For me, Warframe has no goal. I only play it because I want to play it and nothing else. I dare call it a "zen-like state of mind". I don't need to care about drop rates or RNG or any of that. I just play the game because I want to play it. Nothing else. It's just me having some fun.

 

This is also what I pointed out a few times. If you want to have fun with Warframe, don't grind, don't farm, don't try to give the game a goal it doesn't have. Just play it and even you will find enjoyment.

However, don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to change. If you can make a thread with such great ideas that DE has to implement them, then do that and I will be happy for you because you were able to give Warframe a goal - just let me keep on playing.

 

Giving a game with a clear goal no goal is fine, but it's not how I play. I have a lot of other older games I could revisit to achieve something like that.

 

DE has made a product that stands apart from other online shooters today, but it is not a rewarding experience. I want to see it become one. Everything you're saying is anathema to that goal because it is trying to push a doctrine of "then don't level/grind/farm" when that's literally 3/4ths of the gameplay content.

 

I don't care what DE's design platform is. What they're doing with the way drops, both those of a resource nature and those that are not, is bad. Mastery is sinking out resources that one could use to enjoy the game into things they do not enjoy. It is a horrible design spectrum, and I want it changed in a way that rewards me for playing the way I enjoy. If you do not share these goals and are playing just for playing's sake, you've already gotten what you want out of the game. Why, exactly, can't I get what I want as well? Why do I have to CHANGE what I want to even be able to enjoy the game, especially when what I want is clearly not affecting you in the least?