A New Idea For Endless Relic Missions

[0nyxTheWolf]

Hey Everyone, vVvDARKWOLFvVv here! Okay, so I have been sitting on this idea for a while... And I apologize if this idea has been brought up before, but none-the-less here it goes:

So personally I'm rather annoyed [have been since endless relics were implemented] at the idea of having to stop every 5 minutes/waves or every round or every 2 excavators to select a new relic. It breaks up the flow, and to be perfectly frank, I feel like endless missions can be done much better in terms of endless farming and relic use efficiency. What i am proposing is that we kind of hybrid the current relic system and the old void key system.

The idea is, that your group of teammates, whether its premeditated or random, each chooses a relic, and then those relics are put into what basically becomes a custom drop table. So each player basically chooses one relic for the entire mission, and duplicate relics will obviously augment the drop chances to a point, (maybe increased chances of the rare drops for up to 2 duplicates). Beyond that, the state of the relic [Intact, Exceptional, Flawless, Radiant] will be taken into account on an individual basis and basically every rotation (AABC) in the mission will draw from a different players relic, and continue to rotate through players constantly using the relic that they chose at the beginning of the mission. the benefit of this is that ALL players [that brought a relic] will attain the drop the same way they did when void keys were a thing making it so they don't have to choose between two extremely rare drops if they are farming for multiple items.

This system will, in my opinion, also encourage people to go for as long as they possibly can in the mission, such is the point of endless missions to begin with, seeing as they are only putting one relic at risk as opposed to multiples based on how long they decide to go. and of course you still pick up the reactant for every rotation just to keep it in line with the current relic system, and again, of a player did not bring a relic, they will not benefit from the drops, so this encourages people (especially randoms) to actually participate in the endless missions, instead of waiting till that drop chance bonus ticks up after each rotation and then select a relic.

[Edit Based on Reply] Additionally to keep people from farming JUST endless relics, I feel that in the current way relic missions are presented, making endless missions appear less frequently (maybe four times a day, one for each relic type, but never at the same time, and rotating the order they spawn each day) would help reduce that issue. Further adding to the value of going longer in the endless missions. because if you get two missions, that will be available for an hour each, that means you have that much more drive to get as much out of it as you can while it is present. And this is also where your risk/reward aspect comes in. you can go 60+ minutes, and if you fail the mission, you just lost everything and have to wait until the next endless appears.

It is my complete intention for DE to see and consider this, so any and all help achieving that goal will be greatly appreciated.

TL;DR: I don't do these, just read the post :p

That is all for now. Any and all feedback is always appreciated, just keep it constructive and respectful

Thanks for Reading!

SEE Y'ALL STARSIDE!

Edited June 14, 2017 by vVvDARKWOLFvVv

[(XBOX)Ara Vome]

sounds good

[0nyxTheWolf]

thanks, I had been sitting on the idea for a while, and I think it would work about 100x better than the current endless relic system

[NeithanDiniem]

This creates the same exact problem keys had however, in that the one and only efficient way to farm anymore would be to go endless since its giving you multiple rewards for only using one relic. That was one of the secondary reasons why they were changed in the first place.

Also, duplicate relics? I assume you mean they get used up, otherwise people, like several in my discord, would use their hundreds of the same relics to grind the rare parts from that with absurd efficiency.

Edited June 14, 2017 by NeithanDiniem

[0nyxTheWolf]

2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

This creates the same exact problem keys had however, in that the one and only efficient way to farm anymore would be to go endless since its giving you multiple rewards for only using one relic. That was one of the secondary reasons why they were changed in the first place.

This may be true, and i thought about this actually i feel that in the current way relic missions are presented, making endless missions appear less frequently (maybe four times a day, one for each relic type, but never at the same time, and rotating the order they spawn each day) would help reduce that issue. further adding to the value of going longer in the endless missions. because if you get two missions, that will be available for an hour each, that means you have that much more drive to get as much out of it as you can while it is present. and this is also where your risk/reward aspect comes in. you can go 60+ minutes, and if you fail the mission, you just lost everything and have to wait until the next endless appears.

thankyou for reminding me of this, i will edit it into my OP

[NeithanDiniem]

10 minutes ago, vVvDARKWOLFvVv said:

This may be true, and i thought about this actually i feel that in the current way relic missions are presented, making endless missions appear less frequently (maybe four times a day, one for each relic type, but never at the same time, and rotating the order they spawn each day) would help reduce that issue. further adding to the value of going longer in the endless missions. because if you get two missions, that will be available for an hour each, that means you have that much more drive to get as much out of it as you can while it is present. and this is also where your risk/reward aspect comes in. you can go 60+ minutes, and if you fail the mission, you just lost everything and have to wait until the next endless appears.

thankyou for reminding me of this, i will edit it into my OP

And then you have people complaining that they aren't around when those missions are going on, just like you have now with Nitain alerts. It also creates the "Must play" mentality on those missions due to the efficiency the change would make, meaning other fissures would never get played anymore because its no longer worth it. It makes the endless missions better sure but absolutely screws over all non endless missions, ruining half of the fissure system entirely.

Edited June 14, 2017 by NeithanDiniem

[0nyxTheWolf]

3 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

And then you have people complaining that they aren't around when they are going on, just like you have now with Nitain alerts. It also creates the "Must play" mentality on those missions due to the efficiency the change would make, meaning other fissures would never get played anymore because its no longer worth it. It makes the endless missions better sure but absolutely screws over all non endless missions, ruining half of the fissure system entirely.

It is impossible to please everyone. Relic missions are basically extensions of alerts anyways. plus having the times in which they show up rotate in both order and time appearing would alleviate that issue granted it wouldnt completely erase it

and non endless missions are still good for solo farms, prime junk farms, and trace farming. the fact of the matter is that endless missions are basically the most played mission type anyways, whether it is for farming or leveling. so why not play to what everyone already does? the only time people DONT want endless missions is when it is for alerts so they can be done as quickly as possible. even so endless mission alerts are typically 10 minutes/waves or 2 rounds interception. 

[NeithanDiniem]

Just now, vVvDARKWOLFvVv said:

It is impossible to please everyone. Relic missions are basically extensions of alerts anyways. plus having the times in which they show up rotate in both order and time appearing would alleviate that issue granted it wouldnt completely erase it

and non endless missions are still good for solo farms, prime junk farms, and trace farming. the fact of the matter is that endless missions are basically the most played mission type anyways, whether it is for farming or leveling. so why not play to what everyone already does? the only time people DONT want endless missions is when it is for alerts so they can be done as quickly as possible. even so endless mission alerts are typically 10 minutes/waves or 2 rounds interception. 

Endless missions would far outclass any solo farm or prime junk farm due to the efficiency of getting rare rewards at that point with 4 players. Solo grind would be pointless, so anyone doing that with your idea in place would be shooting their own foot. Prime junk farms are when you pretty much want rare items as much as possible. Making the alerts pop up at set times makes people that cant play at those times upset because they simply cant play them. Making them rarely appear makes people save their relics for those and just run them when they appear or pisses people off that you make this efficient system then rarely make it show up. It creates far more problems than it would "fix." Endless missions aren't really the most played fissure missions, most of the time I run them people ditch the mission within 4 rewards, pretty much missing the point of them to begin with. I see far more runs going on on captures since they can be run quickly and people can slam a lot of them out before the fissures move on. Endless missions have pretty standard time requirements that have to be met before you get rewarded. You can typically pull off ~6+ capture missions before you get 4 rewards in a survival or defense fissure. So you already mentioned that with how people don't want alert endless missions, which fissures are, because of the required time input to get rewarded. No you cant please everyone, but you certainly can piss a good number of them off.

Pretty much this: allowing people to get multiple rewards from a single relic goes against one of the fundamental pillars to why DE made the change to relics in the first place.

[0nyxTheWolf]

5 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Pretty much this: allowing people to get multiple rewards from a single relic goes against one of the fundamental pillars to why DE made the change to relics in the first place.

Just because they changed it, doesnt make it a GOOD change. sometimes it would have been better to leave it the way it was/closer to the way it was.. which is what i am suggesting be done basically, but also introduce a way to balance the missions people are doing.

[sulusdacor]

1st problem: what would be a reason to choose any non endless fissure mission over your suggested endless typ?

meaning i get one reward per relic for non endless and multiple rewards per one relic in your suggested endlesssystem. there is no balance between both systems.

2nd problem: the void key/relics prime farming and aquisition of prime parts is overall way to different. one relic is not equal to one void key before.

meaning you usally get stuff you want much easier/faster/safer now. you still can get bad luck streaks with rng, but it is way less then before. in general you have more controll over what u get and can get. so where before you would even with multiple reward rotations not get what you want. now if you use mutiple rellics of the same refinement/type for the item you seek. you are nearly guarenteed to get the thing. the dropchances and the resulting value of the "keys" is not the same. your system assumes it is, which is a problem and will inflate prices/farming even more. (warframe is a farm game)

3rd risk problem: this is kinda currently already in place in a somewhat toned down version.

currently if you fail endless missions you get all the prime rewards you got out of the relics. you do not get normal mission rewards, not the resulting ressouces you get with the endless stacking boosters, no credits, no mods, no traces etc. (not 100% sure on the bonus relics.) but the loss you are currently facing is already there. since you already "used/opened" relics you still get these rewards, but you loose out on quite a lot. the other thing is that it is in some cases very easy to loose a missin later on. since enemies can easily 1 hit you or the objective. so you would basicly get nothing for the 1hr or so you played, which i personally think would be very bad and lead to much more grief. since the game in the current state is not balanced at all at these stages. the spawn can be bad, eximus can make each other invincible. a random enemy can 1shot you or targets, you can run into a bunch of other buggs. the all or nothing mentality does not really fit in and the change from void keys to relics is a really good one in that sense in my eyes.

4th reward problem: already in place too.

you get basiclly free boosters and relics in endless, while getting prime parts. this mechanic alone makes endless the best mission to farm relics/ressouces/primes etc. basiclly anything. they are already the missions with the best reward/effort ratio by far. every 5th rotation a free refined relic? stacking boosters every rotation? getting  the normal mission rewards too (relics,endo,credits,etc.)? what more motivation/rewards do you really want/need to get players to play endless missions? a radiant relic every 5th roataion after the 15th is quite a good reward. since you do not have to either farm the relic or the traces. you may probably even get more relics/traces while doing the rotations between the 5. i think the rewards are currently more then good enough in endless mission. the problem is they are not displayed in a way players see them as the "thing" to get. it is more an ui issue, then a rewards not there in my eyes.

overall: the multiple rewards per relic dont think is a needed feature for the reasons above. the endless relic mission can/need to be improved certainly in many ways, but i think thats not one of them. for the pause after each rotation, sure there could be a que up option for a few rotations. i can certainly see that, but personaly i think the time slowdown is very cool and dont see any problems with that "short break".

fight on tenno.

[NeithanDiniem]

10 hours ago, vVvDARKWOLFvVv said:

Just because they changed it, doesnt make it a GOOD change. sometimes it would have been better to leave it the way it was/closer to the way it was.. which is what i am suggesting be done basically, but also introduce a way to balance the missions people are doing.

Your idea UNbalances the missions, that is the entire point of everyone's replies. The way it was before with keys was broken as all hell, and the system you suggest is exactly the same. Just because you find a change to be disagreeable does not mean it is the opinion of the majority or that it is anything more than a personal opinion.