Enemy Spawning Right Now Is Blatantly Unfair And Discourages Tactical Combat.

[XCodes]

I just did one of the alert raids because I wanted an extra copy of Enemy Radar.  On my Loki, I was carefully picking apart the Grineer forces and clearing out the Grineer room by room because level 45 Elite Shield Lancers kill me outright in not even 5 shots. Twice during this Raid, IMMEDIATELY after clearing a room and opening the door to the next one, I was attacked from BEHIND by a Grineer Shield Lancer, knocked down and out of cover, and instantly killed by the Grineer in the next room.  No, he did not run his &#! all the way from the room before, and I did not miss him when moving on.  He game spawned him in the room I just cleared, right behind me, not 2 seconds after leaving.  It's total bullS#&$.  Decoy doesn't help, either.  Max rank decoy dies in 2 shots from an Elite Lancer.  It might as well not even exist.

I know you guys are being told the game is too easy, but just having the game decide to murder the player by fiat with NO chance for the player to respond is not how you make the game harder.

[SoloCreep]

We need a downvote button..

[Sinkras]

I suggest Enemy Radar, that way you can see 'em comin'. 

 

Enemy Radar is pretty paramount for any kind of "Cautious" or stealthy gameplay.

[TheHeraldXII]

Ok, yeah, enemies spawning behind you is annoying, but on the other hand, did you expect the enemy to not try and flank you? If you're playing tactically, expect the enemy to do the same. Oh and playing "tactically" should also include covering your rear and preparing an exit strategy, not just camping behind a box. In a Loki everything is much easier too, use decoys to cover yourself,place them carefully so they attract attention but don't take too many shots and where possible try and finish the room quickly enough that enemies don't spawn behind you. I know that last part isn't always possible mind you, I had the same trouble in my Volt earlier. Basically, play it safe, use your abilities carefully, expect the enemy to flank and prepare. Last but not least, use Enemy Sense/Radar if this happens to you a lot. Hope that helps.

[Baigan]

We need a downvote button..

+1

[XCodes]

Ok, yeah, enemies spawning behind you is annoying, but on the other hand, did you expect the enemy to not try and flank you? If you're playing tactically, expect the enemy to do the same. Oh and playing "tactically" should also include covering your rear and preparing an exit strategy, not just camping behind a box. In a Loki everything is much easier too, use decoys to cover yourself,place them carefully so they attract attention but don't take too many shots and where possible try and finish the room quickly enough that enemies don't spawn behind you. I know that last part isn't always possible mind you, I had the same trouble in my Volt earlier. Basically, play it safe, use your abilities carefully, expect the enemy to flank and prepare. Last but not least, use Enemy Sense/Radar if this happens to you a lot. Hope that helps.

I'm not camping behind a box. I'm taking cover, quickly taking out any enemies I see, and then depending on where the ones I can't see are at, I move to a different covered position, try to lure them out with a decoy, or whatever. I'm a Loki, this is what Loki does very effectively in a lot of different ways, and I'm rarely in the same place long enough to empty an SV mag.

What's not happening is that the enemy is not "flanking" me. If they were, I could shoot them while they were moving to flank, retreat, find new cover, go invisible, use Radial Disarm to lock them down for a second and then kite them... Again, this is what Loki does very effectively in a lot of different ways.

Something that Loki does not handle well, however, is an enemy MATERIALIZING OUT OF THIN AIR and effectively ONE SHOTTING it as soon as it's there.  That's not "hard," that's not "tactics," that's bullS#&$.

Edited July 17, 2013 by XCodes

[TheHeraldXII]

I'm not camping behind a box. I'm taking cover, quickly taking out any enemies I see, and then depending on where the ones I can't see are at, I move to a different covered position, try to lure them out with a decoy, or whatever. I'm a Loki, this is what Loki does very effectively in a lot of different ways, and I'm rarely in the same place long enough to empty an SV mag.

What's not happening is that the enemy is not "flanking" me. If they were, I could shoot them while they were moving to flank, retreat, find new cover, go invisible, use Radial Disarm to lock them down for a second and then kite them... Again, this is what Loki does very effectively in a lot of different ways.

Something that Loki does not handle well, however, is an enemy MATERIALIZING OUT OF THIN AIR and effectively ONE SHOTTING it as soon as it's there.  That's not "hard," that's not "tactics," that's bullS#&$.

Actually, yeah, if they came up behind you like that, that's flanking. You're on an enemy ship, security teams will come from behind you. If you were in one place so long that the next wave of enemies spawned, you were camping that box, or boxes and got blindsided. Serves you right for not paying attention to your surroundings, a well placed decoy could have alerted you to their coming and you don't need that much warning to pop invisibility and reconsider the situation. I've been in a lot of situations where they came at me from behind, I'm well aware of what happens. You have the tools to address this changing situation, use them, don't complain that you can't just sit behind a box and shoot them like turkeys on a range.

[Love2Camp]

Oh come on, you know the enemy spawns out of nowhere, you can't pay attention to magical teleporting mobs. And I agree somewhat. I too clear maps often, and it becomes a long tedious affair, when mobs keep on spawning every time you move from one room to the next, or back again.

There really is a difference between flanking you from behind and as he said, "MATERIALIZING OUT OF THIN AIR".

[TheHeraldXII]

Oh come on, you know the enemy spawns out of nowhere, you can't pay attention to magical teleporting mobs. And I agree somewhat. I too clear maps often, and it becomes a long tedious affair, when mobs keep on spawning every time you move from one room to the next, or back again.

There really is a difference between flanking you from behind and as he said, "MATERIALIZING OUT OF THIN AIR".

They don't, and it's likely an exaggeration, seeing as it hit him from behind, it really was just him not paying attention.

[kiros_harlequin]

Oh come on, you know the enemy spawns out of nowhere, you can't pay attention to magical teleporting mobs. And I agree somewhat. I too clear maps often, and it becomes a long tedious affair, when mobs keep on spawning every time you move from one room to the next, or back again.

There really is a difference between flanking you from behind and as he said, "MATERIALIZING OUT OF THIN AIR".

Its their ship, there are lots of them, you know that door you just ran past that was on lock down? maybe they unlocked it and passed though it then locked it again, they know where you are they have scanners.

[EirikAura]

They don't, and it's likely an exaggeration, seeing as it hit him from behind, it really was just him not paying attention.

Actually they do, or how would enemies respawn into closed rooms behind you? Yes, even at my level (low) it happens. I clear a room with no entry/exits bar the one I use to leave by and have an enemy attack me from behind. It's not flanking when they spawn out of nowhere :P

[BigGuttMcGraw]

They don't, and it's likely an exaggeration, seeing as it hit him from behind, it really was just him not paying attention.Ii

Im Sorry!. But I have on many occasion SEEN an enemy spawn in behind a box im looking at. NOT teleport....just appear! It does happen! most of the time its very well hidden. but it does happen!

[krisp]

This was a problem 4 months ago, and the devs have done nothing about it. By now I'm pretty sure that's the intended way to play the game: with backspawning enemies.

[MXXVI]

While I have to agree with the general grumpy consensus that "this game is too easy, stop whining"... in this specific case (that of enemies spawning in rooms you've just cleared) I think it does need some work.

 

Simple solution would be to force spawns to only happen in the rooms ahead of you, and +1 room behind you (so enemies would have to actually travel through the room you've just cleared, thus making it a bit less... artificial)

[Liminal]

Decoy doesn't help, either.  Max rank decoy dies in 2 shots from an Elite Lancer.  It might as well not even exist.

Yeah that's an issue as well. For high level missions you just have to run with invisibility and disarm and stay cloaked all the time. Otherwise you get 2-shot too as Loki.

[Seraphyx]

Poor game design imo just having enemies spawn behind. It's especially frustrating if you are the type to clear out rooms because it quickly makes all of your work meaningless.

 

When I began playing for the first time I always made sure I cleared out all of the dead ends, for completion sake but also so I know I cleared that area. I proceed to the next room and begin fighting other enemies and somehow all of the time I spent clearing the rooms behind me was pointless because now there are a dozen enemies behind me as well. This is what sort of pushed me to not caring what-so-ever about exploring and clearing areas and more towards the rushing game style which I absolutely hate. But I have no choice. You are not rewarded for exploring and clearing out rooms.

 

And ffs flanking =/= spawning behind you. Flanking is enemy forces moving into a position to your sides or behind you. Keyword being moving, as in if you see them trying to flank you you know what's going on and you can potentially prevent it from happening. Enemies surprise spawning behind you is not flanking.

 

I had an idea previously to deal with this annoyance if it were to be left in the game for whatever reason. Sabotage doors and those pods that moas spawn out of as you move through a mission in order to prevent them from spawning behind you. But they shouldn't be spawning behind regardless if you've cleared that area. It adds too much tedium and redundancy.

[Grilleds]

I just did a Uranus mission earlier with one other person who was only rank 2. He had an Excalibur, a Paris, a Lato, and Dual Heat Swords. I had a level 8 Saryn, a Torrid, a Sicarus, and a Heat Sword.

He had 500 shields and I think the default health value for Excalibur, and I had 400 shields and 650 health. We did not rush, and proceeded to clear out most of the enemies as we ran into them. We played carefully, but occasionally aggressively (I used wall running to get behind enemies a lot). Both of us were only downed once, and in my case it was due to running through my own Torrid clouds.

Tactical play is possible so long as you aren't soloing.

They don't, and it's likely an exaggeration, seeing as it hit him from behind, it really was just him not paying attention.

Actually they do. Its very rare, but occasionally the game will spawn an enemy right in front of you, partially behind cover. Obviously this also happens behind you as well, but its very noticeable when an enemy suddenly spawns behind a crate in front of you.

[Phaenur]

This point keeps coming up again and again with the Ancients, old and new, and this anecdote just confirms it for other factions - audio cues.  Without some sort of war cry or rushing-footstep noise, shield lancers and other high-priority enemies can and will blindside even competent players who have Enemy Radar, just because by the time someone realizes that red dot is moving towards them that unavoidable attack animation is already in the air.  Sound, far more than sight, is the key "survival sense" for humans (and presumably our distant space-ninja descendants) because it covers more than a 90-degree arc at a time.  Right now footsteps are nearly silent, but Common Infested have a distinctive set of snarls they make while attacking and no one can forget the noises of MOAs and Rollers.  Simple little cues like that, things that players can associate with a specific "this dies now" enemy type - or even archetype, like the unique Grineer voice clip sets for ranged mooks, female models, and Scorpions - will make the game feel fairer without necessarily making the combat any easier.  After all, if you suddenly spin to knock out that shield lancer that backspawned, what're all of his friends that you were just shooting at going to do in the meantime?

[LazyKnight]

They just need to change it so they can only spawn ahead of you. Died on my ash because 2 shockwave MOAs and 3 green MOA all spawn on me and I died because I was currently fighting things in front of me.

[TaikoKhan]

Thank you! I've been noticing this for a while, esp as I solo my Ash with a sniper rifle as my main. Having them appear at all angles out of nowhere, even when there's no way in a room I just cleared other than the exit is crazy. If they rushed from one door, it'd be easier to pick them off.

 

+100.

[BenHoliday]

Actually, yeah, if they came up behind you like that, that's flanking. You're on an enemy ship . . .

 

And when enemies spawn inside the room containing nothing except the elevator you just used (which hasn't moved,) is that flanking, too? Just because you rush through most missions too fast to notice enemies spawning behind you doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

 

I don't have any problems with enemies spawning behind the player, but spawning them in a room they just cleared only makes sense if enemies spawn in a part of the room that's plausible, which does not include the door the player just passed through. While I rarely find myself dying because of such things, it is a clear indication of enemies appearing from nothing, which imho should be hidden from the player in order to encourage an immersive experience. Of course, if there's a REASON for those enemies to be spawning, such as the corpus MOA dispensers, then that's not a problem because it fits the world. However, there is no reasonable explanation as to how a shield lancer can charge a player from a room that was known to be empty mere seconds prior to the attack.

 

Enemies should be prohibited from spawning within a certain distance of the player in order to discourage such immersion-breaking experiences, as well as to reduce the frequency with which you are knocked down by an enemy that didn't exist two seconds ago.

[Taranis49]

I'd like to see this fixed too, it's not fatal in my case (since my preferred frame can atleast take some pounding), but it is annoying and immersion breaking. Particularly when I just came back from a corridor that's a dead-end.

 

It's really noticeable on infested maps when it spawns stuff like crawlers behind you, simply because it's just a tad obvious that they didn't move there under their own power.

[LazyKnight]

I seldom die to this is just on my ash because he is a paper tiger. When the MOA killed me they didn't come from spawn location some of those maps just have weird spawn zone that are not obvious. I do not mind if grineer come from a clearly marked door or something like that but lately(especially 9.1+) all NPC are spawning almost on top of me. It just needs to at least be predictable so I can guard against it I do not like random thing that kill me beyond my control.

Edited July 18, 2013 by LazyKnight

[CosyPigeon]

It would be nice if the AI actually attempted to flank players, rather than just spawning in right behind you :/

Knowing that as soon as you cross a tile set threshold that enemies will spawn behind you is very meta and 4th wall breaking, having to anticipate the game's rather ruthless spawn mechanics as part of my tactics kind of pisses on my immersion. 

[JamnikPucek]

Enemies are supposed to spawn behind you if you stay in one spot for too long, this is working as intended IIRC.

 

The longer you stay in one spot, the bigger the chance you get sandwiched. 

 

A while ago, enemies would indeed spawn on top of you sometimes, but that has been fixed. Unless that particular bug has resurfaced again, enemies should and will spawn in rooms you went through, however if memory servers, they are supposed to be spawning at least 2 rooms behind/in front of you. It is possible that in some cases, the ambush team that spawned in 2+ rooms behind you caught up with you just as you cleared it. Listen to the Lotus, every time she says that there is a new wave incoming, a spawn of aggressive enemies has shown up (which does not mean the mobs that populate rooms from the get go) and is heading for you. 

 

The only exception is the completion of the mission objective (except exterminate, obviously), when you typically need to fight off a wave of close spawning enemies.

 

You either need to be prepared to deal with a sandwich situation (by breaking through the enemies that spanwed behind you so most of them are coming from one direction) or switch to a weapon set that is more efficient at pushing. I've done both depending on frame.

 

Again, unless the respawn bug has resurfaced (and this has not been my experience, ambush/chase squads usually catch up to me if I get into a major firefight in front of me) this is working as intended and I personally do not see anything wrong with it. Whack-a-mole cover shooters are boring :F