Question For The F2P'ers, From A Grandmaster

[LeucienWeaver]

Alright, now this is going to make me look like a complete idiot, but bear with me, i'm half asleep. Does anyone know how I could make a poll, either in this thread or in another, so that the people themselves can voice their opinion on the topic on a numeric scale?

[Azure_Kytia]

Nope. Only DE can create polls.

[Stinker]

I cannot afford to find this game for the same cost of a new console.

 

Therefore, because the economy affects me, I am inferior to per say, a little kid that is handed everything? My opinion isn't important? They deserve it?

Again, I've got really unpopular opinion here, but I have no problem with your statement. I myself am most certainly not in the demographic of the 'easy life'.

 

However, I take issue with entitlement. A very large issue with it. Quite frankly, I do not believe everyone's opinion is important because everyone's got an opinion in the same way they have a butt. Everyone has at least one, some are ridiculous, some are large, some are great, some are just plain lame. That's not to say "everyone's opinion isn't relevant", because they are. Their importance on the other hand is to be determined by whatever entity that chooses to interpret them. If they want to make the direction of their game take shape based more on who is willing to make sacrifice and pay to see it happen, then good on 'em.

 

I'm going to be a $&*^ here and call you a jerk though. In one statement you insinuated that every person that has claimed a grandmaster title did so via the handout of mommy and daddy. I take great issue with comments like that because you have no idea. Just because you cannot see how to come up with money in any situation, does not mean other people can't. I dislike how you take a dump on people supporting something they like, even if was with a 'handout'.

 

A great saying out there that I personally love/hate simply because it's so true, if brutally so: "If it's important to  you, you will find a way. If it's not, you will find an excuse."

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

The thing is, DE is a business full of people who need to make a decent living off of Warframe. It's not that they want to make money, they HAVE to make money, and it's people like Masters and Grand Masters who are giving them that money they need to operate.

And here's the problem with this thought process. People have told DE what they could do to make more money. Lots of people. There's an entire topic where a guy basically fixed the abysmal cash shop for them, and loads of people who are reluctant to drop 100+ bucks on a game in one go would love to drop cash on it if the prices were more reasonable.

But DE refuses to listen to the rest of the populace. When DE closes up the founder program they're effectively going to be shooting themselves in the foot because very few founders continue to spend more on the game and their staunch ignoring of the rest of the userbase will come back to bite them.

Edited July 19, 2013 by DAWGUNITALPHA

[LeucienWeaver]

Alrighty, thankies Azure. Also, you were right a few days ago, there was no excuse for abrasive attitudes, regardless of the actions of someone. Both your words 'n the words of a few others made me realize during these past few days that I need to be far, far friendlier with my approach about stuff...And this was one of the results. ^^

[MaraudingZebra]

And here's the problem with this thought process. People have told DE what they could do to make more money. Lots of people. There's an entire topic where a guy basically fixed the abysmal cash shop for them, and loads of people who are reluctant to drop 100+ bucks on a game in one go would love to drop cash on it if the prices were more reasonable.

But DE refuses to listen to the rest of the populace. When DE closes up the founder program they're effectively going to be shooting themselves in the foot because very few founders continue to spend more on the game and they're staunch ignoring of the rest of the userbase will come back to bite them.

If those are the choices they make, then that's on them. At the end of the day, we can't force them to do anything. We can only ask. It's up to them to do what they want with this game, it's their baby. Who knows what plans they have for the cash shop in the future. There may very well be reasons why they aren't taking suggestions from the community when it comes to those sorts of issues.

[Mak_Gohae]

People that leak stuff should be kicked out of the Council.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

If those are the choices they make, then that's on them. At the end of the day, we can't force them to do anything. We can only ask. It's up to them to do what they want with this game, it's their baby. Who knows what plans they have for the cash shop in the future. There may very well be reasons why they aren't taking suggestions from the community when it comes to those sorts of issues.

They should because it's sorta the community that keeps the game alive. Like I said, once people stop being able to drop 250 on the founders pack, how on earth do they expect to turn a profit at all? If they try to crawl back to the F2P fanbase then it might be too late to appeal to them. Apparently some people have been hearing DE wants to stop accepting founders as early as august or september. If DE doesn't shape this up the game's not going to last much longer beyond that.

[Stinker]

But DE refuses to listen to the rest of the populace.

That's bull crap and you know it. Like hell DE doesn't listen to the "rest of the populace".

Maybe not on the specific design council things, but that's a rather small drop in the bucket of feedback they take home.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

That's bull crap and you know it. Like hell DE doesn't listen to the "rest of the populace".

Maybe not on the specific design council things, but that's a rather small drop in the bucket of feedback they take home.

Way to quote a tiny part of my post entirely out of context so you could get angry at it. I was talking about the cash shop. They don't listen to anyone about it, when that's where they should be listening most of all. Because people want to spend money on the game, they just don't want to feel like they're getting the shaft while doing it.

[LeucienWeaver]

People that leak stuff should be kicked out of the Council.

First off, there's no way to tell who leaks what, and that would require a daisy chain of kicking, because not all of it is straight Dev Council to Reddit/Tumblr/Imgur/4chan. It goes to friends, clans, and non-players first, usually.

Secondly, it's that attitude that I really hope we as a species can get over. We live in a world where information is more precious than currency, and knowledge is power. Even in a tiny sandbox like this, knowledge has its advantages. Why keep people ignorant, if they have ideas that benefit the community as a whole?

[Skytt]

I like that people get perks for being early and large supporters of the game.

 

I'm kind of... I don't know what word I'm looking for... unhappy? that money is what determines legitimacy of an opinion for certain things, though.  I'm a huge fan of open communication and transparency, and DE has done a great job with that for the most part, but as far as I'm concerned, having money to spend on a video game doesn't make you a game designer.

 

I plan to throw money at this game, for the 250+ hours of enjoyment I've had and the niceness and responsiveness of the devs, but that is going to take some time, as I'm only now close to starting a job after 4 years of unemployment.

[MaraudingZebra]

They should because it's sorta the community that keeps the game alive. Like I said, once people stop being able to drop 250 on the founders pack, how on earth do they expect to turn a profit at all? If they try to crawl back to the F2P fanbase then it might be too late to appeal to them. Apparently some people have been hearing DE wants to stop accepting founders as early as august or september. If DE doesn't shape this up the game's not going to last much longer beyond that.

Honestly, I think that they've already shown they're more than capable of coming up with ideas to encourage people to spend cash. I mean come on, every day you have a chance to get up to 50% off platinum for 24 hours. That's a pretty steep discount just for logging in. On Steam just last night you could have gotten platinum for 75% off through one of the packs they sell on there. There was a free 75 platinum you could get just the other day off of that Alienware website. They're doing what they can for people. It's not like they're just saying "this is how things are and this is how they're going to stay".

Edited July 19, 2013 by MaraudingZebra

[Mak_Gohae]

First off, there's no way to tell who leaks what, and that would require a daisy chain of kicking, because not all of it is straight Dev Council to Reddit/Tumblr/Imgur/4chan. It goes to friends, clans, and non-players first, usually.

 

 

DE could get them.

 

Secondly, it's that attitude that I really hope we as a species can get over. We live in a world where information is more precious than currency, and knowledge is power. Even in a tiny sandbox like this, knowledge has its advantages. Why keep people ignorant, if they have ideas that benefit the community as a whole?

 

Did you see the flip-out on Anti-matter frame? Before it even came out people were hating it and angry at the DC.

It's best that work in progress stuff stays away from the masses.

[LeucienWeaver]

I like that people get perks for being early and large supporters of the game.

 

I'm kind of... I don't know what word I'm looking for... unhappy? that money is what determines legitimacy of an opinion for certain things, though.  I'm a huge fan of open communication and transparency, and DE has done a great job with that for the most part, but as far as I'm concerned, having money to spend on a video game doesn't make you a game designer.

 

I plan to throw money at this game, for the 250+ hours of enjoyment I've had and the niceness and responsiveness of the devs, but that is going to take some time, as I'm only now close to starting a job after 4 years of unemployment.

No, having flexible spending money doesn't make one a game designer, but on a whole, the decisions that have come to light haven't been straight from the Dev Council. They've been tweaked, modified, and put under a proverbial electron microscope before being put through another filter... A vote.

It's fine that you're a free to play gamer, I don't judge nor do I think myself superior to you, and that's actually what i'm trying to fight for. I want the Free to Play community to have a voice on the matter, where they can talk and possibly have votes of their own should the topic call for it.

[shinydunsparce]

We can't, and still keep our ability to vote, Repaused. People would be able to artificially affect the voting system by creation of alts and such.

 

Put voting behind mastery rank. So people who have actually played the game a lot have a say.

[LeucienWeaver]

DE could get them.

Did you see the flip-out on Anti-matter frame? Before it even came out people were hating it and angry at the DC.

It's best that work in progress stuff stays away from the masses.

While DE could probably get them...Why would they? That's precious time that could go towards debugging the game, writing code for new content, or other things. Sure, there's a group of community moderators, but they have their hands full with us as it is.

And yes, I saw the rage, but I didn't join in, nor protest, for one reason. I knew that DE would make it work. Nova fits the explosive nature of the frame now, and all of her powers turned out alright. Still some bugs in 'em, but alright.

[DoMe_22_]

Kool Kidz Klub / DC

Edited July 19, 2013 by DoMe_22_

[LeucienWeaver]

Put voting behind mastery rank. So people who have actually played the game a lot have a say.

That... That's actually a nice idea. +1 to you for making me see it from another angle. If we had it behind a mastery rank(And not low, like 2-3), to where those that really, REALLY worked at the game and have easily 80+ hours of combat time under their belt, then the additions to the voting potential would have realistic ideas on what would work or not... But there's a problem. It might be time consuming to code an in game reflection of mastery, for one... And what about those that don't bother with Mastery? Your players running lv 30 items with over 10m exp on them? Shouldn't they have a say for much the same reason?

I'm not shaming your idea, i'm asking if there'd be a potential solution to such a problem.

[Hayden11121]

 

I'm going to be a $&*^ here and call you a jerk though. In one statement you insinuated that every person that has claimed a grandmaster title did so via the handout of mommy and daddy. I take great issue with comments like that because you have no idea. Just because you cannot see how to come up with money in any situation, does not mean

 

I did not say that everyone bought it with someone else's funds. I stated that people HAVE done it before. Kids, mainly.

 

However, these kids, even if they are 1% of the design council, are still in the design council because of money.

 

They are buying power, and when has being able to buy power ever worked out?

 

PS: I can come up with the money, but before I buy a video game I say to myself "Do I need to do this, will it be worth it?" and so far the 30$ I spent on plat comes at about as much fun as I would get spending 250$ on it. Therefore, I say no. If I was richer, this might not be a problem though. However, a game with such little development cannot expect such big funds from people and expect the common man to get it. And the common player often plays F2P games.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Honestly, I think that they've already shown they're more than capable of coming up with ideas to encourage people to spend cash. I mean come on, every day you have a chance to get up to 50% off platinum for 24 hours. That's a pretty steep discount just for logging in. On Steam just last night you could have gotten platinum for 75% off through one of the packs they sell on there. There was a free 75 platinum you could get just the other day off of that Alienware website. They're doing what they can for people. It's not like they're just saying "this is how things are and this is how they're going to stay".

But none of those things really encourage people to actually buy anything when steam doesn't have a summer sale, or buy anything other than slots and potatoes from the shop period because everything is over priced.

 

When 50% off or more is the only reasonable way to get people to buy your plat, you have issues with your shop and the solution isn't trying to shoehorn in more forma sinks and obvious resource cash grabs. If they were doing "what they can for people" then we'd already have seen some pricing changes for the better, instead of having many good easily purchasable guns being set to BP only, to further alienate new players and the BPs made harder to farm for.

 

 

 

Did you see the flip-out on Anti-matter frame? Before it even came out people were hating it and angry at the DC.

It's best that work in progress stuff stays away from the masses.

The "flipout" was largely because people made votes based on "explosions sound cool" and "Hey a teleport move? LIKE IN THAT GAME PORTAL RIGHT?" then the video got leaked and a lot of people chilled out about it because DE managed to salvage the ideas into something pretty interesting if a bit in need of some balance tweaks.

[LeucienWeaver]

Kool Kidz Klub / DC

That's a tiny bit insulting, because I donated my money to the game not because I wanted the perks, or the platinum, but because it was an investment in an amazing game that I really liked. I do not think of myself as superior to you, in the regards of being a 'cool kid', I just want equal knowledge for all.

[MaraudingZebra]

But none of those things really encourage people to actually buy anything when steam doesn't have a summer sale, or buy anything other than slots and potatoes from the shop period because everything is over priced.

 

When 50% off or more is the only reasonable way to get people to buy your plat, you have issues with your shop and the solution isn't trying to shoehorn in more forma sinks and obvious resource cash grabs. If they were doing "what they can for people" then we'd already have seen some pricing changes for the better, instead of having many good easily purchasable guns being set to BP only, to further alienate new players and the BPs made harder to farm for.

 

 

The "flipout" was largely because people made votes based on "explosions sound cool" and "Hey a teleport move? LIKE IN THAT GAME PORTAL RIGHT?" then the video got leaked and a lot of people chilled out about it because DE managed to salvage the ideas into something pretty interesting if a bit in need of some balance tweaks.

Part of the problem is that we don't really know that the shop has any problems at all. We perceive it to be a problem because we don't like it or whatever, but obviously from DE's perspective nothing is wrong with it if they don't feel the need to change it. The point I'm trying to make is that your complaint is very valid, and personally, I agree with a lot of what you've said, but if DE is sitting there looking at how things are now and they feel comfortable with how they're going, they would be dumb to risk messing that up. 

 

I've got a lot of problems with the platinum in this game. I really do. I made a thread just tonight talking about the Void Key Packs and how they could be vastly improved and potentially bring in more money for DE. However, I don't expect that to change. I'd love it to change, but if DE feels that they're making enough money the way things are now, we can't really force them to change anything.

 

We may see a lot of complaints on the forums, but what we don't see is all of DE's profit margins every month, because obviously there's a lot more people giving them money than there are here complaining on the forums.

[NalkorRN]

Masters and Grand Masters have access to Development Council, and as such early information and voting privileges to new content that will come to the game. This is common knowledge, but i'm curious about something. Should the early information really be withheld from the free to play players? The ones who are truly determined to know what's coming can ask their friends, and for every major spoiler found on Dev Council, there is at least 10 people on the Dev Council that are sharing it through image or data sharing sites (Reddit, imgur, etc), which I am fine with. Why should progress of such a thing like the new Grineer tileset or Nova be kept from the rest of the community? <=== Directed at my fellow Masters/Grand Masters.

Now, I am not saying that Dev Council shouldn't exist; quite the contrary. I'm suggesting that the progress that we see already leaks within a matter of hours to the public, so why not make it public knowledge to begin with... And give Dev Council more polls and sandboxes to work with? Let the Free to Play community voice their opinions as things form, just like the paying community does, and if they feel like their voice should be loud enough to cast a voice, they can make it so. After all, some brilliant ideas sprung forth in the Free to Play equivalent of Nova's then to-be-voted-on power set, and quite a few Dev Council members brought in those ideas to the sandbox.

Anyway... Comments, opinions, hate, love...Bring it all!

EDIT: People are getting hung up on the notion of Dev Council being abolished, or their rights removed. I'm not saying that. I'm suggesting that we keep the chance to vote behind the Master/Grandmaster paywall, while allowing free to play people the chance to see and discuss what the Dev Council people can vote on.

The design council shouldn't exist. Seriously, the ideas I see brought up when someone mentions what they say make me want to gag. Tell me how a worm hole for a team teleport power has anything to do with Anti-Matter.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

We may see a lot of complaints on the forums, but what we don't see is all of DE's profit margins every month, because obviously there's a lot more people giving them money than there are here complaining on the forums.

DE_Steve has said more than once that they're "barely making profit" which could mean a lot of things, or maybe he was just bullS#&amp;&#036;ting. But still, if this is true then maybe they should look into some alternatives.