Question For The F2P'ers, From A Grandmaster

[LeucienWeaver]

Lucien....

 

If you think some information should be given to them....give it to them.  You have it.  Post it.

If you think their ideas are good, repost them in the design council.

 

You already have the tools to do it yourself.  Why make somebody else do it if you're the one who wants it done?

Because I have already, multiple times, and each time, people asked me 'Why not ask about it being visible on the site for everyone?' This thread is on that behalf, Phatose. It's to help them stay in the loop, without tainted information, be it from me or other sources.

Edited July 19, 2013 by LeucienWeaver

[Cinderain]

My goal is to make the knowledge publicly known, and let the community see how the votes are going in the Design Council polls as they form.

 

Why have the Design Council at that point?

 

How so? Would you rather DE make content without any prior feedback? In the past that had failed, horribly.

 

What? Where did you get that idea from?

[Parinirvana]

Because I have already, multiple times, and each time, people asked me 'Why not ask about it being visible on the site for everyone?' This thread is on that behalf, Phatose. It's to help them stay in the loop, without tainted information, be it from me or other sources.

Because they haven't put any support for the Dev. Plain and simple. Here are some examples: You support a game with money = benefits, whether it's closed beta access, exclusive contents, designs (Path of Exile let their Diamond supporters design their own Unique items). These are the benefits that must be exclusive to someone who pitch in their support. If you take out the only benefit of the founder package, there would be less players to get the package, which less money to support the Dev. Are you trying to get Warframe to bankrupt or what dude?

If you are so benevolent, go make a thread to update F2P players about new update contents. Easy enough for someone like you right?

[Relkin]

I'm on the high end of middle class fiscally and career wise, with potential to be in the High class for both. Do I view myself as superior to the ones who are of a lower tax bracket than I? No, because we've all got one life to live. We're all flesh, and pink on the inside.

From the looks of things, Gigatron Prime is your (Quite obviously) alt account that you use to spread propaganda and ideas that you're too afraid to voice on your main account, which confuses me quite thoroughly. If you're so concerned with appearances and societal status...Why are you only a Disciple on that account? If you're so high class, why not throw more money at your screen?

Again, please leave. I would like to keep this constructive and positive.

I'm sorry but telling him to leave because you don't agree with his opinion is pretty derpy.  Don't open up a discussion and then just piss on anybody you don't agree with.  

[LeucienWeaver]

So you're saying that if anyone disagree with you, you will ignore their arguments, and only accept people who think the same as you are? You are so biased dude. Just because you are one of the Grand Masters doesn't mean you can put yourself into the spotlight of trying to be benevolent and all of that... If you support the beta phase of a game you have a certain right that others don't have. Sure maybe you don't care about that, but I do. I don't want anyone to screw the game up, I rather believe in statistics and evidence than your so-called trust.

Honestly, all I see is you on your high horse shooting down any opinions against your idea with your university vocabularies. Please, I am on the same level as you are, so I can say you're just bullS#&$.

Ignore their arguments? No, i'd rather keep things from devolving into a flamewar or rant about superiority through funding, which is exactly what you are protesting. As for certain rights, I never said that we shouldn't have them. It's just that the Early Information portion of those rights is less than stellar in that everyone who wants to know what's happening in the game can find it, but that they shouldn't have to go to outside sources for it. Keep Dev Council for voting and polls, but at least let others read what we're discussing, without having to actually search for it.

Why have the Design Council at that point?

 

 

What? Where did you get that idea from?

Why have the Design Council? Because voting is still important, and it should be behind a contribution wall of some sort to keep from artificial votes.

In past games, like MMOs, where they released new content without testing it in relation to how the players as a whole would react, more often than not the game crashes. Star Wars Galaxies, DCUO, and a few other games come to mind.

[Cinderain]

Why have the Design Council? Because voting is still important, and it should be behind a contribution wall of some sort to keep from artificial votes.

 

Not much left setting itself apart, huh?

 

Anyone can offer feedback and ideas and have them taken into consideration, regardless of being in the Council. A poll is the same thing, just more controlled. Nothing very special about it.

[LeucienWeaver]

I'm sorry but telling him to leave because you don't agree with his opinion is pretty derpy.  Don't open up a discussion and then just &!$$ on anybody you don't agree with.

Is there a difference between asking someone to leave because they're being antagonistic for the sake of trouble, and asking someone to leave because you don't like their opinion? I'm going for the former, but I might have achieved the latter.

Look at Techrebel and I. We were arguing constructively. Sure, I let my frustrations of something outside of the topic make my objectivity slip, but I apologized, and tried to keep the topic back where it should be.

[LeucienWeaver]

Not much left setting itself apart, huh?

 

Anyone can offer feedback and ideas and have them taken into consideration, regardless of being in the Council. A poll is the same thing, just more controlled. Nothing very special about it.

The thing that sets it apart is that feedback forums are for fresh and new ideas, whereas dev council is for polls that the DEvs want feedback on, from those that have donated enough to have their voices heard numerically.

[Parinirvana]

Ignore their arguments? No, i'd rather keep things from devolving into a flamewar or rant about superiority through funding, which is exactly what you are protesting. As for certain rights, I never said that we shouldn't have them. It's just that the Early Information portion of those rights is less than stellar in that everyone who wants to know what's happening in the game can find it, but that they shouldn't have to go to outside sources for it. Keep Dev Council for voting and polls, but at least let others read what we're discussing, without having to actually search for it.

Why have the Design Council? Because voting is still important, and it should be behind a contribution wall of some sort to keep from artificial votes.

In past games, like MMOs, where they released new content without testing it in relation to how the players as a whole would react, more often than not the game crashes. Star Wars Galaxies, DCUO, and a few other games come to mind.

 

I think you make this to be a bigger deal than it needs to be. If anyone wants to find out something they need to do a little research about it first. You pay $100 you get the privilege of having easier time than the ones free-loading. Please for the sake of god, stop trying to make your idea such a big deal. I bet the F2P players would care less than you think.

Edited July 19, 2013 by LastToDie

[Cinderain]

I'm still not seeing what sets it apart.

[LeucienWeaver]

A majority of the F2P players that have responded have done so positively. As for making it such a big deal, what had meant to be a small thread destined to die ballooned into what it is now; Still destined to die, but with more responses than I had anticipated, with me trying to reply to everyone.

[Phatose]

So what benefit, if any, would come to the game, DE, or the paying members from doing this?  I'm simply not seeing how it's improving anything for anybody but the F2Pers.

[LeucienWeaver]

So what benefit, if any, would come to the game, DE, or the paying members from doing this?  I'm simply not seeing how it's improving anything for anybody but the F2Pers.

Propose if you will, a fresh player going through the forums for the first time, and seeing the Dev Council forums. They see a poll being asked currently that sparks their interest, with enough motivation for the seed to be planted, 'Maybe i'll drop 100$ if the game keeps asking stuff like this'.

With publicity comes money, as the more people that see it, whether they actively look for it or just stumble upon it, the greater the chance for someone to spend some money to contribute.

[Phatose]

And if they go in there and see that it's actually very quiet, or they don't like the ideas, isn't that just as likely to make them not drop the $100?  That swings both ways.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Phatose

[LongDraw]

People that leak stuff should be kicked out of the Council.

I agree 110% Mak!  I didn't buy the Master's package to get on Design Council.  But seeing as how I am part of it now, I feel it is my personal responsibility to maintain the confidentiality that the DE intended on maintaining.  Sure I could go and post all the information in there on facebook, twitter, wikia and G+ as soon as it is shown to the Design Council, but then I would be deserving of having the "privelage" of viewing that information stripped from me immediately.

 

I think what is really needed is a mandatory verification of age for all Design Council members and anyone who is not 18 years or older should have to get written parent/guardian permission to view/participate in the Design Council.  As it is right now, it is far too easy for a child of say 10 years of age to get their parent/guardians credit card and buy a $200 founders package.

[Niryco]

This is like Wiki-leaks vs government and military officials. Which side are you? It is that simple

[LeucienWeaver]

And if they go in there and see that it's actually very quiet, or they don't like the ideas, isn't that just as likely to make them not drop the $100?  That swings both ways.

Fair enough, Phatose, but why shouldn't the option be there to begin with? Let them see what they'd be paying for. I'm sure there are people out there that have paid for design council and regretted the decision, but if this is true, then there would also be people who would pay to be able to vote on what they see.

[LeucienWeaver]

This is like Wiki-leaks vs government and military officials. Which side are you? It is that simple

Indeed it is, and you're not the only one to make that connection. Though, i'm not sure if your question is rhetorical, or if you're actually asking me.

[Relkin]

Is there a difference between asking someone to leave because they're being antagonistic for the sake of trouble, and asking someone to leave because you don't like their opinion? I'm going for the former, but I might have achieved the latter.

Look at Techrebel and I. We were arguing constructively. Sure, I let my frustrations of something outside of the topic make my objectivity slip, but I apologized, and tried to keep the topic back where it should be.

Eh I think that was his honest opinion.  

 

Personally, your idea is moot and won't comet to pass.  We've paid for a privilege, they can't reneg on that.  I don't really care about free players all that much to be perfectly honest.  They have the game for free, they have a pricing model which allows them to obtain any and everything of merit free of money albeit at cost of time.  They can contribute whatever ideas they want in the forums without issue and the devs generally listen.  The DC information gets "leaked" almost as soon as its posted.  So, now you'd like them to be able to have instant access? Eh, no ty.  I enjoy spreading DC news to my circle of friends.  It is a privilege.  

 

Fact is, I see no reason we should diminish the privs of people who paid for those privs for people who haven't paid for those privs. They will get the information, so they have to wait a few minutes?  Boo-hoo.  I know you mentioned F2P'rs responded positively to this - well parasites always want more more more.  Do I look down on F2P ppl?  Meh not really, but I do get angry when they feel they deserve things I paid for.  They're not entitled to it, but I am because I paid for it.  Is that fair? Yes of course it is.  Is it fair some people can't afford the package?  Its neither fair nor unfair its life. Changing that situation is in their hands. 

 

 The DC is farcical as it is, I'll not see it reduced further. 

[LongDraw]

This is like Wiki-leaks vs government and military officials. Which side are you? It is that simple

Actually, it is more like Inside Traders vs. the Stock Market and the SEC.

[Niryco]

Indeed it is, and you're not the only one to make that connection. Though, i'm not sure if your question is rhetorical, or if you're actually asking me.

Well i intended to ask everyone. This post is about free information being shared, not about abolishing the rights and privileges of those who contributed. Yet overall it seems people don't understand that.

 

Actually, it is more like Inside Traders vs. the Stock Market and the SEC.

So you want free info because you believe in greater good when there is none or hoard it for your personal use because you feel so insecure =P

Edited July 19, 2013 by Jacate

[LongDraw]

Well i intended to ask everyone. This post is about free information being shared, not about abolishing the rights and privileges of those who contributed. Yet overall it seems people don't understand that.

 

So you want free info because you believe in greater good when there is none or hoard it for your personal use because you feel so insecure =P

What I want is what I feel deep down inside (you know that part of you that tells you not to do something because you know it is wrong *ie moral compass*) tells me is the right thing to do.  If the people who say FTPers should get everything DCers get had their way, every person in the world would know about every contest, every giveaway, every product's technical specifications the second that they are even discussed for the first time by company executives.  But you know what?  That's not how the world works, and for good reason.

 

My advice here is simple.  Don't be a free loader like all those who live off government support their entire lives, never attempting to get a job.

 

If you can't get, don't have or don't want a job, that's fine.  I don't really care.  If you want to play the game for free, I say cool.  Maybe you'll be a player I like joining me on missions at those odd hours.  But don't expect to get the world for free.

[LeucienWeaver]

What I want is what I feel deep down inside (you know that part of you that tells you not to do something because you know it is wrong *ie moral compass*) tells me is the right thing to do.  If the people who say FTPers should get everything DCers get had their way, every person in the world would know about every contest, every giveaway, every product's technical specifications the second that they are even discussed for the first time by company executives.  But you know what?  That's not how the world works, and for good reason.

I'm not saying they get everything that the DC has. You wouldn't give someone a car just because they pulled into the dealership...But you'd be interested in their business.

[LongDraw]

I'm not saying they get everything that the DC has. You wouldn't give someone a car just because they pulled into the dealership...But you'd be interested in their business.

So because they pulled up to warframe.com and downloaded the game and created a free account with 50 free platinum, we should give them a set of keys to the DC forum?

[LeucienWeaver]

So because they pulled up to warframe.com and downloaded the game and created a free account with 50 free platinum, we should give them a set of keys to the DC forum?

No, but they'd be allowed to window browse, at least. At least at a car dealership the fancy, bank breaking vehicles are put on display and showcased, screaming 'Buy me, buy me'.

Edit: If I had to buy a car based on a pair of words and what looks like a nice return on my investment, without 1) knowing what the car looks like, 2) knowing what it means to drive said car, i'd be less reluctant to buy it than I would seeing it, understanding how it drove, and a few other noteworthy aspects. I'm not saying let them test drive, i'm saying let them look in the window.

Edited July 19, 2013 by LeucienWeaver