Question For The F2P'ers, From A Grandmaster

[Mak_Gohae]

This is like Wiki-leaks vs government and military officials. Which side are you? It is that simple

 

No it isn't....

 

DE isnt trying to hide anything, DE is just giving some folks information in their creation process.

DE is constantly putting out info for the masses but the DC gets a little bit extra a little bit earlier.

[Niryco]

No it isn't....

 

DE isnt trying to hide anything, DE is just giving some folks information in their creation process.

DE is constantly putting out info for the masses but the DC gets a little bit extra a little bit earlier.

The thing is this isn't about DE being the officials. This is about the DC being the body and users in it being the officials. DE is just the head or the field that provides the info, we transmit it. So you read my message wrongly.

 

DC people have things they "want" to hide or not let the non-payers know.

DC has leakers that try to put out info for the general public.

 

Not DE

[LongDraw]

No, but they'd be allowed to window browse, at least. At least at a car dealership the fancy, bank breaking vehicles are put on display and showcased, screaming 'Buy me, buy me'.

Edit: If I had to buy a car based on a pair of words and what looks like a nice return on my investment, without 1) knowing what the car looks like, 2) knowing what it means to drive said car, i'd be less reluctant to buy it than I would seeing it, understanding how it drove, and a few other noteworthy aspects. I'm not saying let them test drive, i'm saying let them look in the window.

Okay, so let them see the thread titles in the Design Council forum sections, but block access to read the thread content?  If that is what you are suggesting, then I would say "You have my +1 vote".  If you're suggesting allowing them any further access to those forum sections, then my answer would be a resounding "No!"

[MageMeat]

Thank you for your support, Mage! Any suggestions as far as ideas go?

Not really, my concept is pretty straightforward. The Design Council does its thing, but the devs tell us what you are doing so we can discuss with each other.

[Mak_Gohae]

The thing is this isn't about DE being the officials. This is about the DC being the body and users in it being the officials. DE is just the head or the field that provides the info, we transmit it. So you read my message wrongly.

 

DC people have things they "want" to hide or not let the non-payers know.

DC has leakers that try to put out info for the general public.

 

Not DE

 

So there are no rules in the Design Council?

I am not in it and since people cannot see this board unless they are in it i thought that this info was only for folks in the DC.

[LongDraw]

If I remember correctly, when you upgrade your founder package to Master or Grand Master, once the system updates your account, the next time you log into the game, you get another Terms of Service or whatever they called it.  I didn't bother reading it the second time since I know the expectations for private design groups / closed alpha or closed beta testing groups.

[LeucienWeaver]

Okay, so let them see the thread titles in the Design Council forum sections, but block access to read the thread content?  If that is what you are suggesting, then I would say "You have my +1 vote".  If you're suggesting allowing them any further access to those forum sections, then my answer would be a resounding "No!"

A mix of both, actually.

See the very first post of the thread so that they can understand what it's discussing (Nova power vote: Here are your choices, and how the vote is playing out. You must be of M/GM rank to post, see discussions or vote.)

Edit: Missing word

Edited July 19, 2013 by LeucienWeaver

[Bennyworld]

Well, I would say cut off the founder's program now, get rid of the 'design council' and call it something like 'VIP club' (but obviously not that) maybe lotus council ?<br />There, instead of showing us new stuff, we could be consulted on feedback questions and interesting discussions for the community. It should just be a place where the devs are especially active.

[Niryco]

So there are no rules in the Design Council?

I am not in it and since people cannot see this board unless they are in it i thought that this info was only for folks in the DC.

I am also not sure myself, the only rule i know off which they try to or not to break is don't leak info.

[LongDraw]

A mix of both, actually.

See the very first post of the thread so that they can understand what it's discussing (Nova power vote: Here are your choices, and how the vote is playing out. You must be of M/GM rank to post, see discussions or vote.)

Edit: Missing word

Problem is with the capability of this forum to limit non-DCers to only seeing the first post, as well as when admins like Rebecca post their new screenshots and such in the first post.  Unless you would expect them to create an initial non-DCer intro post?

 

I was trying to keep the limitations of this forum in mind when making my previous post.

[LeucienWeaver]

Alright, to clarify on how the Dev Council works. We do not make threads, we can only post in them. We are given two things per poll: Active Suggestion/Vote thread, where we discuss what we want to see done with the topic at hand(Nova Powers, Name, etc) with rigidity(Word cap, follow a certain format, and a brief description), and Sandbox, where we are allowed to discuss the topic at hand with leniency (Hey, what about X, Y, or Z?)

[Mak_Gohae]

If I remember correctly, when you upgrade your founder package to Master or Grand Master, once the system updates your account, the next time you log into the game, you get another Terms of Service or whatever they called it.  I didn't bother reading it the second time since I know the expectations for private design groups / closed alpha or closed beta testing groups.

 

 

I am also not sure myself, the only rule i know off which they try to or not to break is don't leak info.

 

Well, it looks like you DC folks need to do some reading somehow.

I guess you should contact DE to figure this stuff out but at this point .... is it really needed?

The info leaks out and DE doesnt seem to be angry about it.

[LeucienWeaver]

Problem is with the capability of this forum to limit non-DCers to only seeing the first post, as well as when admins like Rebecca post their new screenshots and such in the first post.  Unless you would expect them to create an initial non-DCer intro post?

 

I was trying to keep the limitations of this forum in mind when making my previous post.

In the case of polls, there could be a separate forum from the Dev Council, where it is JUST that initial post for Community players to view. There could be 'Community Early Information', 'Dev Council', and 'Dev Council Archives' with the latter two unclickable or invisible depending on whether or not they are given access.

[LeucienWeaver]

Well, it looks like you DC folks need to do some reading somehow.

I guess you should contact DE to figure this stuff out but at this point .... is it really needed?

The info leaks out and DE doesnt seem to be angry about it.

DE isn't angry about it because they expect it, as a form of publicity. Look at my analogy of Dev Council to a car dealership.

My proposal, using that analogy is that the only difference is that you have a friend driving you to the dealership, rather than going there yourself.

[RS-CreeD]

Something I think is missing so far from the argument is simple player numbers. We can argue the value of perks as an incentive to become founders, and how some folks see that as being threatened by some of the proposals here, but should not ignore the fact that if the player-base dwindles the game dies - just as surely as from a lack of funding. I'm guessing the majority of that player-base is F2P, even if they do not (and ignorant 'parasite' slurs aside there are many that CANNOT) contribute monetarily they add to the lastability of the game by presence alone, not to mention encouraging others to play who in turn may become founders/platinum customers. If you alienate these players, make them feel as if they have no say in the game they will move on....oh and is it so hard to believe they might have some ideas that make the game better for us all?

 

Should all perks be on par with paying customers? No. but here are many ways to contribute to the WF universe, not just financial, I think the proposals to recognize that in some fashion are commendable and also necessary for the future of the game.

[Mak_Gohae]

DE isn't angry about it because they expect it, as a form of publicity. Look at my analogy of Dev Council to a car dealership.

My proposal, using that analogy is that the only difference is that you have a friend driving you to the dealership, rather than going there yourself.

 

You shouldn't speak for DE.

[LeucienWeaver]

Something I think is missing so far from the argument is simple player numbers. We can argue the value of perks as an incentive to become founders, and how some folks see that as being threatened by some of the proposals here, but should not ignore the fact that if the player-base dwindles the game dies - just as surely as from a lack of funding. I'm guessing the majority of that player-base is F2P, even if they do not (and ignorant 'parasite' slurs aside there are many that CANNOT) contribute monetarily they add to the lastability of the game by presence alone, not to mention encouraging others to play who in turn may become founders/platinum customers. If you alienate these players, make them feel as if they have no say in the game they will move on....oh and is it so hard to believe they might have some ideas that make the game better for us all?

 

Should all perks be on par with paying customers? No. but here are many ways to contribute to the WF universe, not just financial, I think the proposals to recognize that in some fashion are commendable and also necessary for the future of the game.

Player numbers are complicated as none of us have access to the absolute number of players, number of council members, or percent of complete free to play vs 5$+ contributors, but you have my +1 for granting another view for the conversation. Now, that is not to say that there aren't people who can pay but choose not to, but as you said, there's no reason to insult them on their choice; maybe they haven't found the right reason to pay yet.

Indeed, just as funding is important, so is solid playerbase, as there needs to be an influx of players to help balance the loss via those that quit or stop paying as frequently. On the topic of Community perks being on par with Paying perks, I agree, and that's half my argument. I want Dev Council to continue to have their say, but I want the Community to at least have a /taste/ of what's to come.

Yes, they can go to other sites for this. I get that. But why should they? Keep them here, let them see for themselves, and maybe they'll decide 'This is what I want to pay for'

[LeucienWeaver]

You shouldn't speak for DE.

To be blunt, you did as well. I just went about it as if it were a concrete piece of information. Anyway, back on topic.

[Destro6677]

Leucien, you have admirable goals and I respect that.

 

However, DE will inevitably change abilities and such that the community finds lacking. Take the rhino rework for example.

 

Imo, if the person wants to spend money on this game, they will spend it anyway, whether they see something cool or not.

 

There are already enough upgrades and such to spend real money on, and they don't even break the game. 

 

I don't think that as a $5 USD+ player (yes, I'm not American and I can't afford much) I'm going to make an upgrade or spend money based on something new they're proposing. I'll just accept it and keep playing. If I don't like it, I won't use it.

 

If enough people dislike whatever they're proposing, DE will just take it back to the drawing board.

 

Or better, make more versions of the single concept that would have been voted on to appeal to a wider player base.

[Cinderain]

Let's leak some Design Council info, then.

 

Unless it's already been leaked, of course.

Edited July 19, 2013 by FatalX7

[Mak_Gohae]

To be blunt, you did as well. I just went about it as if it were a concrete piece of information. Anyway, back on topic.

 

When did i speak for DE?

[Mutilar]

Masters should get 10% off all purchases of future plat, and GM 20%, permanently :)

[LeucienWeaver]

Masters should get 10% off all purchases of future plat, and GM 20%, permanently :)

That would be an interesting way to compensate for losing the perk of Early Access, imo.

[B0AR]

Only let Masters/Grand Masters vote.  Let everyone have access to the Design Council.  Though it is us Masters/Grand Masters who probably spend the most platinum and keep the game alive since this game is player funded, so I can see why they have the Design Council the way it is now.

 

- Info is leaked all the time anyway so might as well let F2P players access it ;p

 

Side note:  Masters and Grand Masters should get a special discount coupon every 2 weeks for platinum.

 

Master Coupon Discount: 10%

 

Grand Master Coupon Discount: 20%

Edited July 19, 2013 by BryJFlex

[LeucienWeaver]

Only let Masters/Grand Masters vote.  Let everyone have access to the Design Council.  Though it is us Masters/Grand Masters who probably spend the most platinum and keep the game alive since this game is player funded, so I can see why they have the Design Council the way it is now.

 

- Info is leaked all the time anyway so might as well let F2P players access it ;p

That's the essence of my thread, Bry. Hope you approve/stick around to discuss! Any suggestions or arguments to have about how we could allow for Community members to view the first post of the poll and early info threads for Dev Council?