Akboltos Useless Vs Kunai

[TheAlfax]

suddenly bronco ignores armors.. or afuris.. OR OR TWIN VIPERS !. you will still thinking the same ?

A-A-A-And suddenly, Bronco fires nukes! And rainbows!

Of course if they add armor ignore on them, they'll be better. We are talking how the game is RIGHT NOW. You can't defend the Kunai and Despair by saying ''oh, if they changed armor scaling, that would be different! So it's completely OKAY right now!''.

If you want to talk armor scaling, we can talk armor scaling. Right now, we aren't. We are talking about how the Kunai and Despair make everything else feel like a marshmallow gun at higher levels. And there is no way to properly defend it, even if you create some kind of scenario where every other gun has armor ignore and the Grineer are lovable chaps.

[LazyKnight]

It doesn't matter. Kunai and AKBolto are armor ignore. The damage on Kunai is higher, the fire rate on Kunai is higher (gameplay fire rate, not wiki fire rate), and the reload speed on the Kunai is faster. AKBolto lose even without the armor scale issue. 

 

This is the same issue you run into when you compare Kunai to any other sidearm (and even rifle). 

Almost all the weapon imbalance issues are caused by the armor formal they use. It scales so aggressive that normal weapons(ones that aren't any of the AI types or AP damage) aren't even viable for the game that DE made. The game essential falls apart on two faction(infested/Grineer)  because of just the armor formal,  Corpus can be dealt with(still a pain because they have way too much health)all the way up to 150-200  without using a single Ai/Ap weapon.

 

If they removed ALL scaling of armor increase the base hp of the grinner by 2-4 times it would even out the playing fields dramatically. The biggest offender in game that makes non Ai weapon useless is ancients and it would imminently make Normal damage types(non Ai) viable if they removed armor scaling.

[ChaoticVice777]

A-A-A-And suddenly, Bronco fires nukes! And rainbows!

Of course if they add armor ignore on them, they'll be better. We are talking how the game is RIGHT NOW. You can't defend the Kunai and Despair by saying ''oh, if they changed armor scaling, that would be different! So it's completely OKAY right now!''.

If you want to talk armor scaling, we can talk armor scaling. Right now, we aren't. We are talking about how the Kunai and Despair make everything else feel like a marshmallow gun at higher levels. And there is no way to properly defend it, even if you create some kind of scenario where every other gun has armor ignore and the Grineer are lovable chaps.

 

That's why we can talk about armor scaling. Kunai and Despair make everything else feel like a marshmellow gun at the high levels because enemies have high enough armor values to make normal damage insignifcant.

 

You can't have every gun using armor ignore (which already is split into different damage types), that would ruin the versatility/variety of the weapons.

[S3raph]

Akboltos have fire rate issues. Fix those by boosting damage per shot while nerfing fire rate a little, or remove the respective bugs. Good to go, right?

 

And technically, if you're going into Warframe's current form of end-game, there's only a few viable/effective secondaries:

 

1) Throwing Knives - Despair > Kunai > Hikou

2) Pistols - Acrid > Twin Vipers > Akboltos

 

Everything else just doesn't deal enough damage due to the armor scaling. Yes, this includes the Dual Broncos, as fun.powerful as they are.

 

Why are twin vipers better than akboltos???

[TheAlfax]

That's why we can talk about armor scaling. Kunai and Despair make everything else feel like a marshmellow gun at the high levels because enemies have high enough armor values to make normal damage insignifcant.

 

You can't have every gun using armor ignore (which already is split into different damage types), that would ruin the versatility/variety of the weapons.

Exactly my point. I'm saying they are overpowered, and they are. There is no way to defend them, and you can't put armor ignore on every other weapon to compensate for it. I say nerf the god damn things, or buff everything else. People make a fuzz about armor scaling, but it's not that big of an issue IMO. My Sobek and my Gorgon do well on high level missions, but the Kunai and Despair make both of 'em look like jokes, turning high-level missions into a walk through the park. It's been 2 weeks since I've played with a random player who wasn't using the Kunai.

Edited July 25, 2013 by TheAlfax

[DaJetLife]

well look at the power compared with both those weapons of course the kunai/despair are both going to be more powerful

[Darayas]

They're not 'okay' right now in any conventional sense of balance - they chop through all enemies faster than my boltor does, and that's even with a 10-clip size and a slower ROF. They go through entire rooms full of enemies like a hot knife sinking into butter.

 

Which is why I use them. I'm unashamedly taking advantage of the fact that they're easy to obtain and laughably overpowered. I'm a casual player with only about 50 hours of gametime since I started playing this June, and I don't really care if it means I have no 'skill' or 'pride' or whatever. If it's efficient and deadly, I'm game for it.

 

Of course, it does make levels ridiculously easy from time to time. When I'm feeling like I want a challenge, I just don't use them, and stick to my boltor/latron.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Darayas

[simeo77]

If you want to talk armor scaling, we can talk armor scaling. Right now, we aren't. We are talking about how the Kunai and Despair make everything else feel like a marshmallow gun at higher levels. And there is no way to properly defend it, even if you create some kind of scenario where every other gun has armor ignore and the Grineer are lovable chaps.

 

My point exactly.

 

They're not 'okay' right now in any conventional sense of balance - they chop through all enemies faster than my boltor does, and that's even with a 10-clip size and a slower ROF. They go through entire rooms full of enemies like a hot knife sinking into butter.

 

Which is why I use them. I'm unashamedly taking advantage of the fact that they're easy to obtain and laughably overpowered. I'm a casual player with only about 50 hours of gametime since I started playing this June, and I don't really care if it means I have no 'skill' or 'pride' or whatever. If it's efficient and deadly, I'm game for it.

 

Of course, it does make levels ridiculously easy from time to time. When I'm feeling like I want a challenge, I just don't use them, and stick to my boltor/latron.

 

And my point exactly as well. 

Edited July 25, 2013 by simeo77

[LazyKnight]

They're not 'okay' right now in any conventional sense of balance - they chop through all enemies faster than my boltor does, and that's even with a 10-clip size and a slower ROF. They go through entire rooms full of enemies like a hot knife sinking into butter.

 

Which is why I use them. I'm unashamedly taking advantage of the fact that they're easy to obtain and laughably overpowered. I'm a casual player with only about 50 hours of gametime since I started playing this June, and I don't really care if it means I have no 'skill' or 'pride' or whatever. If it's efficient and deadly, I'm game for it.

 

Of course, it does make levels ridiculously easy from time to time. When I'm feeling like I want a challenge, I just don't use them, and stick to my boltor/latron.

The thing I find funny about the entire Kunai/despair issue is I do not even like the knives as weapons. I sold my Kunai shortly after I got it level 30 because that stun on every hit annoyed me. Despair I basically just equip but I do not use unless I have run out of ammo. I use my latron prime, dread, HEK and V-snipetron and seldom bother swapping weapons in missions.

 

I would use Akbolto but I can't stand firing any semi-auto weapon faster than 6-8 and I like having gunslinger on my Akbolto. If there was no glitch it would get old quickly with an akbolto shooting at 17.2 speed with gunslinger.

Edited July 25, 2013 by LazyKnight

[ChaoticVice777]

Exactly my point. I'm saying they are overpowered, and they are. There is no way to defend them, and you can't put armor ignore on every other weapon to compensate for it. I say nerf the god damn things, or buff everything else. People make a fuzz about armor scaling, but it's not that big of an issue IMO. My Sobek and my Gorgon do well on high level missions, but the Kunai and Despair make both of 'em look like jokes, turning high-level missions into a walk through the park. It's been 2 weeks since I've played with a random player who wasn't using the Kunai.

 

Let's put it in another way: Kunai/Despair are some of the few effective secondaries in the later levels because enemy armor can get so high to where most other damage types outside of the "armor ignore" category become simply ineffective. 

 

No wonder the Kunai/Despair feel overpowered/perform better than even some of the primary weapons. Armor scaling is a big issue, especially once enemies actually start becoming IMMUNE to certain damage types, even when aiming at weak spots.

 

As a side note, this brings up a similar issue of how people prioritize armor piercing over elemental damage. -1 to armor scaling.

Edited July 25, 2013 by ChaoticVice777

[tcooc]

Yes, I agree that armor scaling is an issue and removing it would make a lot of weapons more viable for endgame/defense.

 

However, this thread is about the akbolto being useless against kunai. There is no way to defend the kunai; try comparing their stats and tell me one thing that is better about akbolto. So even if armor scaling is removed, kunai will still be way better.

Edited July 26, 2013 by tcooc

[fatpig84]

The only way to fix the issue without an engine re-write.

 

1) Make all semi-autos, auto firing.

 

2) Cap out the damage resistance. Laser damage has shown that while it is crap earlier on, the enemy resistances do NOT scale further against it at high levels. So at level 50 on the Dera starts outperforming the Braton.

 

it can be done, just the ball is in DE court whether do they want to cap resistances.

Edited July 26, 2013 by fatpig84

[simeo77]

Yes, I agree that armor scaling is an issue and removing it would make a lot of weapons more viable for endgame/defense.

 

However, this thread is about the akbolto being useless against kunai. There is no way to defend the kunai; try comparing their stats and tell me one thing that is better about akbolto. So even if armor scaling is removed, kunai will still be way better.

 

This.

 

Edit: If anything the harder it is for a weapon to grab the more powerful the weapon should be. AKBolto has numerous steps to receive. The Kunai is a simple market purchase and 12 hours later. 

 

The Clan, Void and Stalker weapons ought to outperform all the market weapons.... So I wouldn't be mad if Despair were more powerful than the AKBolto. But the Kunai/Haikou?

Edited July 26, 2013 by simeo77