1 Day Wait Between Mastery Tests Needs To Be Removed.

[EirikAura]

(I'm one of the brilliant ones that stayed in the circle during my first test :p )

LOL I had to tell the wife to move, she was just standing and turning and the clock was counting down... She did get it though, with like 7 seconds left :P

 

Oh, and I'm a dead man if she reads this... lol

[hiryu64]

But it's a well known fact to players that Warframe is lacking in guidance. We already know that it doesn't teach/tell us most things in game, so why would this one test be an exception?

 

Yes I concede the point that a perfectly designed game would eliminate the need of looking outside of it for information, but Warframe is not a perfect game. The DEvs themselves mentioned that they initially wanted to just make pick-up PvE game, hinting at how poorly designed the game will be even at the outset as it would just be a pet project, instead of a full-blown game. In a perfect world, Warframe would have a complete, exhaustive tutorial which teaches new players everything they need to know. But in that same perfect world, it'd be titled Dark Sector and would already be released at 2006.

 

Wiki and forum is the modern-day analogue of a game manual. It contains all  the detailed weapon or warframe stats, boss fight strategies, useless trivia, small typoes and mistaken information, just like a comprehensive game manual would. When was the last time you saw a game ship with actual manuals after the advent of game forums and wiki spaces?

 

You can go in the game blind and learn things step by step, or peruse the forums and look it up on the wiki.

 

Saying that the game isn't perfect so we shouldn't bother to try to fix this is a horrible defense, ESPECIALLY when the fix is as trivial as changing a few words around. DOUBLY so when we, the users, are currently beta testers. It is our duty to report issues so that the developers can resolve them.

 

I would say that wiki and forum aren't equivalent to manuals because they're not included, but we're starting to digress from the main point with that argument. Quite simply, you cannot use the fact that such external resources exist as an excuse for poor in-game direction. Period.

 

How did anyone fail the mastery tests? The wallrunning one I can understand because of how buggy wallrunning can be, but the target shooting test tells you to shoot a target, a orb lights up. If you shoot that orb that is obviously different from the other orbs it will make a trail to the next target. The room is intentionally all black to contrast what to attack, like the first tutorial where it's all white and the enemies shaded black.

 

Literally the only way you can fail the target test is if you never shot the first target.

 

If you're aiming at the opposite side of the room when the test begins, you will shoot the first target you see. Once you realize that nothing appears to be happening, you will search around. Maybe you find a glowing target, but by then half of the round's time has passed and you're playing catch up and not likely to pass. It's possible that some users don't even SEE the white orb.

 

So yes, you fail by not shooting the first target. Some users don't actually see said target. If only there were some instruction stating to shoot a glowing white orb...

[Tetsmeha]

So yes, you fail by not shooting the first target. Some users don't actually see said target. If only there were some instruction stating to shoot a glowing white orb...

 

Yeah lotus tells you to shoot the target. The delivery of mastery tests does not change at all. The previous Mastery tests have you listen to lotus's instructions and you do the test. Not that hard.

[hiryu64]

Yeah lotus tells you to shoot the target. The delivery of mastery tests does not change at all. The previous Mastery tests have you listen to lotus's instructions and you do the test. Not that hard.

 

The previous Mastery tests have adequate instruction. This one does not. I will spell this out as clearly as possible: Lotus tells you to shoot the target. She does not say WHICH target. If the user is mousing around during her audio instruction as the targets approach the user, his or her view might not zero in on the white target. If the user is not looking at the white glowing target when the timer starts, he or she will shoot the first target that is seen. This will not be the correct target, but the user will not know this, because he or she is never told WHICH target to shoot.

 

I LITERALLY cannot break this down any further. This is a problem. One that can be easily solved by adding the word "glowing" to the instruction. Stop blaming the user for DE's failure to adequately instruct them.

 

EDIT: I have submitted a ticket highlighting this issue. Hopefully it will be addressed in the coming weeks. For what it's worth, I don't believe the 24 hour lockout period should be removed. However, the issues with this and other tests must be resolved.

Edited July 23, 2013 by hiryu64

[Carcharias]

So you're suggesting that instead of creating a more streamlined and informative test instruction that DE should rely on their users to instead go and study for each mastery test in advance? I'm sorry, but that's absolutely laughable. That's not good game design at all. Please tell me you don't expect each and every player to go to a wiki or Youtube video to understand how to pass a small section of the game just because the in-game instruction might not be adequate or there might be a bug that renders the test impossible that they might need to be aware of in advance.

Better instructions might not be a bad idea, but it's not needed. The point of being able to look up test is that IF you Really want to up your chances of getting past the test on the first try, not fail, and have to wait the agony of  one   whole    day, then you can look up these tests on youtube and greatly increase your odds of passing on your first try. It is an option. Though IMO it's not usually necessary.

 

As far as every player going to the wiki, yes I think that's a great idea. How many posts have you seen here in the forum that could have been answered by a quick wiki check? I don't see a problem with people sharing information at all, especially if you're limited on time. As long as it takes to collect stuff for the dojo weapons you would be foolish IMO to just randomly craft something without looking it up to see if it is a wise investment for you.

 

"or there might be a bug" - You do know this is still beta right? If 24 hours will drain your body of it's life-force then yes, go check out the test on youtube for potential bugs. What's wrong with that?

 

We are space ninjas. It's a test. It should be a little challenging, and there's no reason that some of the challenge can't come from slightly vague instructions, I actually think it would have been kind of cool if the Lotus just dropped you in and said "you are going to be tested, you will pass or fail." Then not only would you have to pass the test you'd have to figure it out first. It is a test, there should be a price to pay if you fail, and it's actually kinda nice that the only penalty for failure is time. Not credits, not plat, not loss of xp or mastery while you continue to play, just the time until you can try the test again.

 

Problem is in today's world a large percentage of people want X right-now-this-very-second-don't-you-dare-make-me-wait. This is why I will always be against these threads time and time again asking for the 24 hr penalty to be removed. There is no reason to remove it, it is reasonable. This is a game. No player NEEDS that mastery rank right this second, if waiting 24 hours will see the end of your life, I hope you not spending the last few moments of your days playing a computer game.

[Kalenath]

So this is how the story goes. I finaly get to mastery 6 and im doing the test, lotus tells me to shoot the targets. But not what ones and i fail. but instead of retaking the test i have to wait a day to re take it. This &!$$es me off because players spend so much time leveling up frames and weapons to get their next mastery level just to find out they need to wait another day. and in that day im guessing all the items you level up dont go twards your next mastery rank.

 

The XP isn't lost.

 

And... no.

[J-Pax]

So you're suggesting that instead of creating a more streamlined and informative test instruction that DE should rely on their users to instead go and study for each mastery test in advance? I'm sorry, but that's absolutely laughable. That's not good game design at all. Please tell me you don't expect each and every player to go to a wiki or Youtube video to understand how to pass a small section of the game just because the in-game instruction might not be adequate or there might be a bug that renders the test impossible that they might need to be aware of in advance.

 

 

At the same time though hiryu most of me thinks the tests are straightforward and easy, and in general straightforward and easy things don't generally require instruction. I understand what you mean though, on mastery 6 the change could easily be made where the camera is taken from player control, forcibly shown the orbs to target and then the test begins once the first orb is shot.

[Grinbringer]

I also was surprised and worried when I failed sidearm test, because I didn't kill enemies fast enough. I had no idea that the test was going to be timed. It turned out that I kept gaining exp in the background, but I only found out over 1 day later when I finally did it again and passed. Initial reaction was "WTF".

 

As it stands currently, mastery level only blocks using a couple of weapons, you gain exp in the background, so it's no big deal (that's why I didn't make a topic myself). But it certainly is flawed and needs adjustments when more important things get done.

[PettiTheYeti]

OP Failed test because he wasn't paying attention to his surroundings. OP is butthurt. OP has to wait in his butthurtness to unbutthurt himself. OP more butthurt.

 

Seriously, chill out with your personal agenda to have instructions clarified. The devs probably know there are some things that need fixing with the UI, things like this, for instance. But, I have a feeling they are more concerned with new content, bug fixes, and other, bigger issues than to add a clarification to a line of dialogue that has guided however many thousands of other users through the same test without issue.

 

Whoever said that it would better to just drop in and have Lotus say "This is a test, you will pass or fail" and that is it, has it right. If anyone has played Anti-Chamber, you understand that sometimes the lack of information can be the most distinguishing part of a game. If you have to think, and you can't complete the objective correctly the first time, and you fail, you have to re-think the situation. In Warframe, that re-thinking period is 24 hours to take the test again.

[NovusNiveus]

I don't like to condescend, but I took the test the other day and...

 

Man, they're glowing white orbs with a glowing line that shows you where the next one is. It's not like there should be a big neon arrow that says SHOOT THIS, because there already kind of is.

 

Dude.

[Lumireaver]

and in that day im guessing all the items you level up dont go twards your next mastery rank.

 

Well the good news is you're wrong about that bit.

 

The bad news is that in a do or die situation, you wouldn't know which targets to hit and thus... well. It's a good thing it was only an exam.

Better luck next time.

[hiryu64]

-snip-

 

Dude, read the post directly above you. I don't believe the lockout period should be removed. I can't make that clearer. You're barking up the wrong tree here.

 

As for the rest of your post...I'm absolutely slack jawed. You don't believe that good instruction is necessary? I...WHAAAAT!?!? Please, for the sake of all of us, don't ever get into game design. That is such a backwards way of thinking.

 

Maybe you should understand the difference between essential and non-essential information. Non-essential information is stuff like weapon stats, frame stats, etc. Essential information is mission-critical things like rules and how to play the game. The latter needs to be adequately conveyed to the user within the game environment itself. Rules about how to pass a timed-limited test are part of that category, and it is 100% UNREASONABLE to expect a user to seek out any sort of essential information outside of the game. Basically, you're advocating that a lack of instruction is acceptable. I'm here to tell you that you're wrong.

 

"You know this is still a beta, right?" Yes. That's why we report this sort of thing. The problem is that you and many others in this thread have adopted the poisonous "I didn't encounter a problem therefore there isn't a problem" mentality. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, there is a problem with the instruction.

 

"and there's no reason that some of the challenge can't come from slightly vague instructions" Yeah, this is the part where I throw my hands up give up on you. There absolutely is reason that the challenge shouldn't come from vague instruction: decent game design. A user should pass or fail based on the merits of his or her skills and not anything else beyond his or her control. A lack of information in how to pass a certain obstacle qualifies as something beyond the user's control. It leads to player frustration and sours the overall experience.

 

There is nothing cool about being dropped into a timed scenario with inadequate instruction. I understand that a great many of you are like "OH BUT IT'S CHALLENGING THAT WAY", but it's challenging for the wrong reasons. I've already spelled out the scenario in which this test fails to instruct the user, but I'll try one more time:

 

DE is relying on a quick camera snap THAT MAY NOT EVEN BE REGISTERED to guide the user, and nothing more. The user may not see the glowing orb and instead will shoot at the first target they see. After several seconds of nothing happening, only then will they realize that something is not right. This is when they look around for something else. They might notice the glowing target, they might not. BAMF SORRY TIME'S UP BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME LOL. This could have been avoided by either a) withholding camera control from the user until the glowing target has appeared, or b) changing the game instruction from "Track and shoot all targets" to "Track and shoot the glowing targets." Ideally, both should be used.

 

If you tell me, with sincerity, that the game being a beta is an excuse for ignoring this, then you have failed to understand the point of an open beta in the first place. The attitude of "Well I did it, there's obviously not a problem" is maddening, and I'm sick of defending myself from that view. I submitted a ticket, and I made my view as clear as possible here. If you still don't buy what I'm selling, then I have nothing more to say. Except don't ever go into game design.

 

And this probably needs to be said again so that it's no longer erroneously brought up against me,

 

I THINK THAT THE LOCKOUT PERIOD IS FINE AS IT IS.

Edited July 23, 2013 by hiryu64

[MeteorKing]

I'm in favor of keeping the wait period, and yes, I have failed a rank test.

Failed it three days in a row and I still think the timer is fine.