Ridiculous Nightmare Mode Conditions

[Ruzu]

I'm finding it weird that people asked for new challenges, yet when were give new challenges, we start complaining. DE will *probably* add a toggle switch in the future(Just speculation). In the meanwhile, try to avoid nightmare stages if you think the conditions are unfair. 

 

If you're going to be stubborn and say "I *will* do nightmare missions", despite knowing the fact that they're unfair at the moment, you're only ruining the game experience for yourself. If you don't mind the challenge, then all right.

 

Or maybe, DE can provide a temporary solution.

[Saenol]

The only combination I think is really untenable is no map + time limit + exterminate. All the rest are reliably completable.

[Liminal]

I got Io with vampire, no shields and energy drain.

It wasn't fun. It wasn't difficult. It was boring. We stood on boxes and shot the crap out of the infested.

Shade was trying to restore my shields throughout the mission, constantly wasting his energy.

This just can't be working as intended.

[krisp]

So you expect Tenno to only be taking missions where they already have a detailed map of the surrundings?

To be perfectly fair here, no one who'd be in the Tenno's shoes wouldn't enter an enemy ship without a scan of their internal structure. Since there's a clear exit point and these ships are supposed to be huge, fumbling around like an idiot while looking for the extraction point is something no trained ninja/mercenary/assassin has ever did in the history of ever.

 

So yes, in theory, Tenno should at least know the layout of every ship before they enter a mission. Otherwise it'd be a suicide mission and the Tenno have nothing to suicide for.

 

But back to the topic at hand: we have a right to complain when the feature we've been asking for is half-assed and poorly implemented. Why would it be otherwise? Being happy with whatever we get all the time is a ridiculously awful way to live and invites people abusing your trust. If DE puts in a S#&$ty game mechanic, it's almost our duty to call them out on it. Both us and they want this game to turn out good, and that won't happen if we encourage bad game design instead of actively criticizing it.

[NottherealRangenade]

Thing is, the no shields property only works in a situation where you can avoid damage by skill. Having this property in corpus/grineer maps is not difficult, it is punishing and not fun at all.

 

It is a situation where you cannot meaningfully avoid damage dealt out by the enemies since most of their weapons are hitscan or very fast projectiles, where players cannot dodge out of the way, only to take cover to avoid damage. This forces players to play missions like a cover-based shooter without regenerating health which this game is not about and most of all, it ruins the enjoyable fast paced nature of the combat.

 

This mechanic only works in infested missions where you can avoid damage just by staying out of their reach and out run them and if you made a mistake, you pay for it.

 

So my suggestion is to make certain properties restrict to certain types of missions and also consider how it affects the players enjoyment of the game. E.g No shields on infested maps 

[oKibbles]

I just tried nightmare sargus ruk with no shield + energy drain.  It's like a 2 shot kill for my Loki, impossible to complete since enemies respawn behind you and no invis on Loki makes a captured target even more tankier than me D:

[Beelzebubbles]

Nightmare mode is very interesting now.  Some combinations are tedious (Spy mission with no mini-map), some are ridiculously impossible (Deception or Spy, with no shields and energy drain), and some are just awesome (Infested Defense, no shields, energy drain).

 

I think there has to be some balancing or changes to what is allowable in combination.  Right now, if you're going into a mission, you pretty much have to prepare for the worst, which means "Bring Frost or Rhino" and "Max out defensive mods".  Anything else is very risky.  If the enemy can shoot you or get close and one-hit you (flameblades, for instance), you need as much damage reduction as you can get.

 

But it did feel great to do 15 nightmare levels on Xini last night, no shields (for some of us--buggy), vampire, and energy drain. I was playing Nova and had to be conservative with Molecular Prime for a change. Also, having to strategize and leave energy on the ground until I was actually going to use it was pretty awesome.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Beelzebubbles

[Relkin]

People wanted hard mode.

We got hard mode.

People complain that hard mode is hard.

 

Logic?

To be fair, he probably wasn't one of those people.

 

 

@OP just run some low level NM with some good players if you just want the mods. 

[Parinirvana]

How to beat nightmare mode: Loki, Trinity, Rhino, Ash.

The rest = trash

Edited July 30, 2013 by LastToDie

[Bibliothekar]

Oi, come back and say that again to my 240% Vitality, 60% Steel Fiber Saryn!

[DarKarvin]

energy drain and no shields is way way worse than no shield/vampire.

vampire you can heal, otherwise those little plinks from across the room will kill you, eventually...or rapidly

[Lenzerker]

Salutations, check my post about the Nightmare Mode and tell me what you think.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/88610-suggestion-for-the-nightmare-mode/

Edited July 30, 2013 by Lenzerker

[akaSM]

No map with rushers makes me giggle.

 

About using better weapons...AP or AI are good, right?...no wait...are pretty much the only things :V

[Sinbolt]

New nightmare mode is awesome, but you have to prepare !

The problem isn't that it's hard, it's that you can't prepare properly before entering it : we should know what will be the drawbacks BEFORE entering mission.

And here's a idea. 

 

[mhyr1104]

It's not fun when you are playing Trinity and you have Vampire and Energy Drain on. Skill orientated Warframes are completely thrashed in these Nightmares since they cant use any skills...

[holdenagincourt]

Just had a mission with no shields, no energy and vampire.

 

Seriously, the madness must end. DE, just step up and recognize that you overdid it, and tone down the effects or limit the maximum number at a time.

[crianp]

I love nightmare mode, like people have said earlier, you just need to take it slow, the mission will take longer so don't rush it.

[bumwald]

So clearly we have been ninja-patched, which btw DE.....BAD! You're better than ninja-patching. Anyway....

 

There is a condition set that makes you rapidly lose energy AND have 0 shields at the same time. That is 100% defeat unless you bring a fully modded Rhino, or Frost. DE what you've done is take away both our offense and defense all at once, leaving us with just guns, which can't do much on their own. Here are some suggestions to make this better:

 

1. Decrease the speed at which energy drains by at least 25%

2. Instead of no shields, just apply the half shields condition of the ice maps.

LMFAO seriously?  powers are much much much weaker than guns and always will be.  I've tested this.  Used my ember and got over 200 kills.  Did 6% damage despite killing over  3/4 the enemies.  Powers are not stronger than skills, I didn't fire a single bullet, just used my powers.  Powers will not kill high level ancients reliably.  Maybe you can kill one with 2 or 3 skills chained, but you'll run out of energy pretty quick doing that.

[zyraconne]

Did 6% damage despite killing over 3/4 the enemies.

Just want to point out that those numbers are still borked. At least the "damage" one.

 

As for the topic, "No Map" is where it's at.

[CY13ERPUNK]

-1 OP

+1 general thread consensus (new nightmare is better)

but i still want "all heavies" mode (all flamer/bombards/hvymchgn, all ancients, all techs/fusions)

[SirNerdsAlot5]

People wanted hard mode.

We got hard mode.

People complain that hard mode is hard.

 

Logic?

I'm not one of those people.

[SirNerdsAlot5]

LMFAO seriously?  powers are much much much weaker than guns and always will be.  I've tested this.  Used my ember and got over 200 kills.  Did 6% damage despite killing over  3/4 the enemies.  Powers are not stronger than skills, I didn't fire a single bullet, just used my powers.  Powers will not kill high level ancients reliably.  Maybe you can kill one with 2 or 3 skills chained, but you'll run out of energy pretty quick doing that.

1000 damage Ult vs Gun, uh I don't think so

[kgb_cyborg]

Heads-up on the conditions in place on a Nightmare mode mission is planned I believe. This should enable some amount of challenging difficulty rather than punishing difficulty.

Some conditions probably should not go together, but I found no shields + vampire mode to generally be a good thing. One kill every 10 seconds negates the health drain, and anything over and above that makes up for the lack of health orbs.

[Inuichi]

Most of the nightmare mode stuff I'm okay with. They make the game both challenging and fun.

 

Wandering around a capture mission for 40 minutes because we can't find our target, and then extraction, is not fun. At the very least, even if we have no mini-map, give us the way point marker. I have never seen any condition cause people to instantly abort a mission as much as this one has.

[SirNerdsAlot5]

Most of the nightmare mode stuff I'm okay with. They make the game both challenging and fun.

 

Wandering around a capture mission for 40 minutes because we can't find our target, and then extraction, is not fun. At the very least, even if we have no mini-map, give us the way point marker. I have never seen any condition cause people to instantly abort a mission as much as this one has.

 

On that note, I've noticed people instantly abort when 0 shields and energy drain are together.