Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 minute ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

@AperoBeltaTwo  Have a coffee and sammich and relax. Arguing with those that don't (or won't) understand basic concepts of a game is too frustrating. Just let those comments fall by the wayside.

You have come up with great points and counter-points, but this thread is getting long and I feel its going to get to a point of needing moderated soon(tm).

The only downside to universal vacuum is that it would make the Vacuum mod obsolete. Which is why DE is dragging their feet on the decision. That and the possibility that adding Universal Vacuum to Warframe may make pets less used. Which is why all the pet lovers are on about this. *shrugs* Let it go and let DE make the call. They have the info, and our feedback, and they can read and see who made a point and who was just pissing in the wind.

But that's a great thing. Removing mandatory Vacuum mod from the game would open a whole utility slot for customization.

 The thing is, DE had all the info and all the feedback for years and didn't do anything about it. I don't cherish any illusions on the matter - it either happens or it doesn't. Nobody could ever counter the stubborness of a person in charge, who intentionally ignores feedback.

The most likely scenario is that one day the game's development itself would force their hand. Like it happened with PoE this time. 

[Altre]

I'm thinking we also need a constant 3x speed boost to all frames. I mean, having to live with the tedium of running through a map just ruins the flow of the game. I also hate getting killed. Ruins the flow of the game.

Anyone opposed to just starting a mission and instantly getting the mission complete screen with all potential loot already acquired and all items maxed out with 6x forma for our convenience?

This is not what the game used to be about. It didn't used to be able convenience, it used to be a struggle (at least it was early on). Utility was just that. It's not essential. People claiming that everyone would really prefer to have a larger universal vacuum should stop making statements for a group they don't understand. I do feel that vacuum as a mod needs to be dealt with. I wouldn't be opposed to pets/companions getting a utility slot, similar to Exilus slots. Kubrow and Kavat at least deserve a reduced item pick up ability. Rushing to get loot IS exciting to people. It used to be a part of games. Mission start, combat, loot, next objective, repeat as needed. I always wanted a small vacuum like we have now, due to the odd ejection of loot sometimes removing it from physical grasp in silly places (darn, my frame can't squeeze between that gap on his belly to grab those mutagen samples...). If loot ruins the flow of the game, why argue to let it drop in the first place? Why not just have it placed in a repository shown at the end of the mission?

The reason it wouldn't be a good idea to have a toggleable option for universal vacuum is because looting is an integral part of the game, like health and energy are or like movement speed. There's no convenience option to modify those outside of using mods or items. I used to hate slow frames because everyone else could speed through missions, while I was left in the dust due to low movement speed. I couldn't understand why they would have slower frames. Then I played defence and survival missions and found that i could stay alive while other frames had a hard time (this was before our current energy economy and frames like Valkyr). Choosing to use carrier was just another option for gameplay to me and a lot of advanced players I had seen didn't use him because he didn't offer many combat benefits. I liked the stealth given by Shade or sometimes the infrequent cc aid of Wrym. Dethcube was fun for lower level missions. When pets came out, I thought they were useless until I actually used them. Different uses, I felt no marginal difference between using them and Sentinels. Missions didn't turn out radically different due to use of one or the other, they just aided in slightly different ways.

Anyways, my point is that manual looting has always been a part of the game. This is not an essential convenience. It's a utility.

[JuicyPop]

I swear it's like arguing for universal healthcare at this point. You present people with a reasonable change that can only benefit them and they rally against it because it doesn't feel good to them for some inexplicable reason.

I've yet to see an actual argument – that didn't simply resort to calling supporters lazy – as to why this would be ill-advised. I've already made my case dozens of times in this thread.  

9 minutes ago, Altre said:

I'm thinking we also need a constant 3x speed boost to all frames. I mean, having to live with the tedium of running through a map just ruins the flow of the game. I also hate getting killed. Ruins the flow of the game.

Anyone opposed to just starting a mission and instantly getting the mission complete screen with all potential loot already acquired and all items maxed out with 6x forma for our convenience?

This is not what the game used to be about. It didn't used to be able convenience, it used to be a struggle (at least it was early on). Utility was just that. It's not essential. People claiming that everyone would really prefer to have a larger universal vacuum should stop making statements for a group they don't understand. I do feel that vacuum as a mod needs to be dealt with. I wouldn't be opposed to pets/companions getting a utility slot, similar to Exilus slots. Kubrow and Kavat at least deserve a reduced item pick up ability. Rushing to get loot IS exciting to people. It used to be a part of games. Mission start, combat, loot, next objective, repeat as needed. I always wanted a small vacuum like we have now, due to the odd ejection of loot sometimes removing it from physical grasp in silly places (darn, my frame can't squeeze between that gap on his belly to grab those mutagen samples...). If loot ruins the flow of the game, why argue to let it drop in the first place? Why not just have it placed in a repository shown at the end of the mission?

The reason it wouldn't be a good idea to have a toggleable option for universal vacuum is because looting is an integral part of the game, like health and energy are or like movement speed. There's no convenience option to modify those outside of using mods or items. I used to hate slow frames because everyone else could speed through missions, while I was left in the dust due to low movement speed. I couldn't understand why they would have slower frames. Then I played defence and survival missions and found that i could stay alive while other frames had a hard time (this was before our current energy economy and frames like Valkyr). Choosing to use carrier was just another option for gameplay to me and a lot of advanced players I had seen didn't use him because he didn't offer many combat benefits. I liked the stealth given by Shade or sometimes the infrequent cc aid of Wrym. Dethcube was fun for lower level missions. When pets came out, I thought they were useless until I actually used them. Different uses, I felt no marginal difference between using them and Sentinels. Missions didn't turn out radically different due to use of one or the other, they just aided in slightly different ways.

Anyways, my point is that manual looting has always been a part of the game. This is not an essential convenience. It's a utility.

If that is your point, then you must absolutely detest patch day. Did you rally against loadouts as well? 

Edited November 11, 2017 by JuicyPop

[Top_Kekkonen]

15 minutes ago, Altre said:

I'm thinking we also need a constant 3x speed boost to all frames. I mean, having to live with the tedium of running through a map just ruins the flow of the game. I also hate getting killed. Ruins the flow of the game.

Anyone opposed to just starting a mission and instantly getting the mission complete screen with all potential loot already acquired and all items maxed out with 6x forma for our convenience?

This is not what the game used to be about. It didn't used to be able convenience, it used to be a struggle (at least it was early on). Utility was just that. It's not essential. People claiming that everyone would really prefer to have a larger universal vacuum should stop making statements for a group they don't understand. I do feel that vacuum as a mod needs to be dealt with. I wouldn't be opposed to pets/companions getting a utility slot, similar to Exilus slots. Kubrow and Kavat at least deserve a reduced item pick up ability. Rushing to get loot IS exciting to people. It used to be a part of games. Mission start, combat, loot, next objective, repeat as needed. I always wanted a small vacuum like we have now, due to the odd ejection of loot sometimes removing it from physical grasp in silly places (darn, my frame can't squeeze between that gap on his belly to grab those mutagen samples...). If loot ruins the flow of the game, why argue to let it drop in the first place? Why not just have it placed in a repository shown at the end of the mission?

The reason it wouldn't be a good idea to have a toggleable option for universal vacuum is because looting is an integral part of the game, like health and energy are or like movement speed. There's no convenience option to modify those outside of using mods or items. I used to hate slow frames because everyone else could speed through missions, while I was left in the dust due to low movement speed. I couldn't understand why they would have slower frames. Then I played defence and survival missions and found that i could stay alive while other frames had a hard time (this was before our current energy economy and frames like Valkyr). Choosing to use carrier was just another option for gameplay to me and a lot of advanced players I had seen didn't use him because he didn't offer many combat benefits. I liked the stealth given by Shade or sometimes the infrequent cc aid of Wrym. Dethcube was fun for lower level missions. When pets came out, I thought they were useless until I actually used them. Different uses, I felt no marginal difference between using them and Sentinels. Missions didn't turn out radically different due to use of one or the other, they just aided in slightly different ways.

Anyways, my point is that manual looting has always been a part of the game. This is not an essential convenience. It's a utility.

Mate, the game has changed a lot, parkour 2.0 introduced much more vertical mobility, we're more up in the air. It's reasonable that they'd increase the innate vacuum. And since sentinels are superior to kavats and kubrows why not take one thing away from them and make the vacuum mod range the new standard. Kill 2 birds with one stone. Balance companions and flesh out parkour 2.0.

[SpinnningSideKick]

7 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Ok, listen. Warframe has incredible movement system, has guns, melee weapons and superpower abilities. It's a fast-paced combat-oriented game. You seriously expect anyone to wait for 10 minutes to proc a specific random charm resource booster that would only last 2 minutes? Really? And use it instead of vacuum?

 You're missing the point here. Vacuum isn't about resources. Vacuum is about the flow of the mission. Most of the playerbase simply don't like stopping at every corner to pick up every speck of dust off the floor and break every single crate on the way. It's not fun for us. You might like it, and it's fine. But what you're arguing for is forbidding fun to people like me, who don't ejoy the janitor-frame. Sorry. 

 And the worst part is that it doesn't really worth arguing for. Vacuum is already in the game. Manual looting is entirely skippable as long as you only stick to sentinels - which is exactly what the majority of the playerbase does. And it is exactly the reason why pets are so unpopular in the community and get so little developers' attention. 

 You yourself would benefit from UV directly. 

I have been listening. Additionally I can prove you havent been. Lets not go there and keep moving forward. 

I clearly stated 2 rounds, as in 10 waves on whatever type of endless mission at hand (this is a very common term in usage through out the player base). Which excludes all the other mission types by default.

So if you are already in a mission for 10 minutes, and the rotation for charms proc is 9.5 minutes, there is no expectation for people to wait around is there?

The result being you get an automatic planetary rare, for free, no effort and you double your loot, again for free no effort. Double for nothing is pretty efficient isnt it? (second time Ive asked this.)

This means you do not have to "dont have to stop at every corner to pick up every scrap of dust off the floor and break every single crate on the way". 

If pets are so unpopluar, why am I selling more lotus prints since PoE launched. Its almost as if a surge in the player base has taken an interest in companions! Weird. BTW. I just sold another lotus (sahasa) while typing this. 250 plat for each print ! With an order for for a sunika and chesa, the player Im talking to wants all his kubrows with lotus prints. 

Im not forbidding anything, I dont work for DE and cant make changes to the game. Sorry. I can voice my opinion and well thought out objections, even in spite of you choosing to ignore them. At least I can elaborate on my points and be honest with my goals. 

You cant even say what you really want, which is resource doubling and  a vacuum. You complain about warframes being over powered, ignore how potent companions are and insist that this combination is harmless. It is not. 

Mirage with the simulor was pretty popular, so was the Telos Boltace and the Tonkor. All weapons that were abused by the player base to the point DE had to step in and radically in some cases change them all. Players want to cheese the game, and this combination will lead to cheesing and inevitably nerf the companions. Which I have said before, and will happily say again. The resource doubling on Smeeta is a mechanic that can and will be abused. Surely you must be able to see this conclusion?

 

[JuicyPop]

2 minutes ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

I have been listening. Additionally I can prove you havent been. Lets not go there and keep moving forward. 

I clearly stated 2 rounds, as in 10 waves on whatever type of endless mission at hand (this is a very common term in usage through out the player base). Which excludes all the other mission types by default.

So if you are already in a mission for 10 minutes, and the rotation for charms proc is 9.5 minutes, there is no expectation for people to wait around is there?

The result being you get an automatic planetary rare, for free, no effort and you double your loot, again for free no effort. Double for nothing is pretty efficient isnt it? (second time Ive asked this.)

This means you do not have to "dont have to stop at every corner to pick up every scrap of dust off the floor and break every single crate on the way". 

If pets are so unpopluar, why am I selling more lotus prints since PoE launched. Its almost as if a surge in the player base has taken an interest in companions! Weird. BTW. I just sold another lotus (sahasa) while typing this. 250 plat for each print ! With an order for for a sunika and chesa, the player Im talking to wants all his kubrows with lotus prints. 

Im not forbidding anything, I dont work for DE and cant make changes to the game. Sorry. I can voice my opinion and well thought out objections, even in spite of you choosing to ignore them. At least I can elaborate on my points and be honest with my goals. 

You cant even say what you really want, which is resource doubling and  a vacuum. You complain about warframes being over powered, ignore how potent companions are and insist that this combination is harmless. It is not. 

Mirage with the simulor was pretty popular, so was the Telos Boltace and the Tonkor. All weapons that were abused by the player base to the point DE had to step in and radically in some cases change them all. Players want to cheese the game, and this combination will lead to cheesing and inevitably nerf the companions. Which I have said before, and will happily say again. The resource doubling on Smeeta is a mechanic that can and will be abused. Surely you must be able to see this conclusion?

 

No S#&$? It doesn't mean that companions themselves are any more popular, just that there are more consumers to buy prints. 

[Altre]

I swear, it's like people don't understand the benefit of simply not dying or not having to spend time to build an arsenal, which extends the life of the game. Some argue that it's an artificial extension, I argue that games are artificial to begin with and we don't need instant gratification in every corner of the game.

This is not at all like universal healthcare because it has nothing to do with a real economy or keeping real people alive. I haven't called anyone lazy and have yet to rally "against" anything done to the game. It's an aspect of the game that has always existed, like in many other games, and I feel people like you don't understand it. Saying that it's reasonable change doesn't make it reasonable. You can have your vacuum in the form of a mod. It already exists. Pages back, I believe I mentioned as I did in my last post that looting is an aspect of the game. Again, my point is that it's literally an aspect of the game and I've always considered the freedom to choose between utility and combat enjoyable. Taking that away takes away enjoying the loot rush that people like me enjoy.

Use that parkour 2.0 and climb to that loot with your innate 3m vacuum and profit. I already explained my thoughts on pets vs sentinels. Not sure how one over the other makes a marginal difference by the end of the mission, I have yet to see a difference.

[SpinnningSideKick]

3 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

I give you my experiment:

1.) Play any sentinel (preferably with 30m range attack precept) with artax.

2.) Take it out, and enjoy it's incredible usefulness in stunlocking groups of enemies, slowmotioning them and supporting condition overload builds.

3.) Realize you never want to go back to anything else.

There are more reasons than just vacuum that speak for sentinels. Even with universal vacuum, sentinels still remain incredibly good.

Classic "Don't like it, don't play it." argument. Why improve something when there's other games to play right? Or why improve pets and make them get played more often when people are already satisfied with sentinels? I wonder if you're active on some kind of mobile phone forums and arguing/argued against smartphones for whatever reason that doesn't affect you because anything other than simply calling someone is "pure unnecessary luxury" in your eyes while you stick to your 90s nokia phone.

Seriously though. At least try to understand WHY someone has a complaint, WHY there's so many of them, read what they've got to say and then THINK about whether it's just a positive thing or a thing that could actually ruin people's experience. CAN we improve something? Is there any good reason to be AGAINST it? Also try to COMPREHEND as to why an enourmous majority used carrier most of the time. Last but not least, REALIZE what this game is centered about (Grinding (F2P)!!!)...instead of shoving everyone into the "You're crying" drawer. When so many people are of the same opinion and and raise their concerns, they don't do it for no reason. You should really think about why that is so. It's better to learn and understand things than just being "different", defending stuff and arguing with people for no good reason.

Seems to be common forum mentality here. Not everyone but many are like that. Now if you go ingame and ask most people in there, i bet the answers will be WAY different. It's just that some people are trying very hard to find even the SLIGHTEST and TINIEST reason to be against good and greatly demanded ideas just so they can "discuss" (because everyone agreeing would be boring huh..). And then they wonder why so many "discussions" end up in flames...when logic gets thrown out the window.

Define "unkillable god". Because dying frequently even against lvl 40 enemies is not an "unkillable god" in my book. Specifically talking about the kavats. Haven't played kubrows for a while, raksa is cool though.

It's hard or even impossible to create a convincing counter argument against universal vacuum even more so when it can be made OPTIONAL. I don't know how to describe it accurately. Vacuum is just good. It doesn't even hurt anyone unlike nukes, trolls or unbalanced gameplay. And for me, it allows me also to collect loot between defense waves without having to stroll across the WHOLE map. You don't even have enough time for that. No wonder so many people swear by it.

Excuse me but get this outta here. Teaching habits is mainly the job of the parents, not of game developers. But if you were actually a caring person as you imply to be, you would come up with better ideas. Such as preventing people from leaving in the last second for trolling reasons in order to leave other players completely alone or implementing a punish system if you choose to change the side in the last second while other players are still on the side that you were previously on. Now that's a way of teaching habits...unlike infuriating most of the community for no good reason.

I do use sentinels, all the time in fact, as I switch to them while I have kubrows in the incubator. 

 

[JuicyPop]

31 minutes ago, Altre said:

I swear, [1.] it's like people don't understand the benefit of simply not dying or not having to spend time to build an arsenal, which extends the life of the game. Some argue that it's an artificial extension, I argue that games are artificial to begin with and we don't need instant gratification in every corner of the game.

This is not at all like universal healthcare because it has nothing to do with a real economy or keeping real people alive. I haven't called anyone lazy and have yet to rally "against" anything done to the game. It's an aspect of the game that has always existed, like in many other games, and I feel people like you don't understand it. [2.] Saying that it's reasonable change doesn't make it reasonable. [3.] You can have your vacuum in the form of a mod. It already exists. Pages back, I believe I mentioned as I did in my last post that looting is an aspect of the game. Again, my point is that it's literally an aspect of the game and I've always considered the freedom to choose between utility and combat enjoyable. Taking that away takes away enjoying the loot rush that people like me enjoy.

[4.] Use that parkour 2.0 and climb to that loot with your innate 3m vacuum and profit. I already explained my thoughts on pets vs sentinels. Not sure how one over the other makes a marginal difference by the end of the mission, I have yet to see a difference.

[1.] Emotive appeals are not sound arguments. It's 10 pages in and I'm still waiting to see a detailed response that doesn't rely on shaming others.

[2.] Of course not, but while those in support have taken the time to outline why this change would be beneficial for both the community and DE, the counterargument has been practically non-existent. You need to go into to detail as to why this change would be a negative for the game, not just resort to saying it's not necessary because that argument could be applied to literally every piece of content. 

[3.] And again, you've absolutely whiffed on the point. The issue is that companions [Kubrows/Kavats] will remain in a non-viable state – for the vast majority of the playerbase – so long as vacuum is exclusive to sentinels. This is not a discussion about vacuum itself but about the exclusivity of the mod having deleterious effects on the game. 

[4.] Do I really need to show you the math again? A 3 meter vacuum is just pitiful relative to the range of movement afforded by the parkour system. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by JuicyPop

[Altre]

Bud, you have yet to make a sound argument. Pointing out that people haven't convinced you is redundant. That's why people are still discussing it. Tell me why I need universal vacuum and can't enjoy the loot gathering. I've been reading other arguments as to why and have yet to be convinced. I haven't shamed anyone or called anyone lazy.

[SpinnningSideKick]

3 minutes ago, Altre said:

Bud, you have yet to make a sound argument. Pointing out that people haven't convinced you is redundant. That's why people are still discussing it. Tell me why I need universal vacuum and can't enjoy the loot gathering. I've been reading other arguments as to why and have yet to be convinced. I haven't shamed anyone or called anyone lazy.

I would also add you have not even attempted to be condescending and have been respectful through out, taking the time to address individual points. Well done sir. 

[Xarteros]

3 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Define "unkillable god". Because dying frequently even against lvl 40 enemies is not an "unkillable god" in my book. Specifically talking about the kavats. Haven't played kubrows for a while, raksa is cool though.

Well, that may be a bit of a selective name.

I run a lot of melee heavy stuff. I love my Eternal War Valkyr, and my Toxic Lash plague-spreader Saryn, so I'm always melee striking to get their health back. I also run Hirudo a lot so I can do quick melee and get health back (rather than needing to completely swap, and use Life Strike), so my melee damage keeps their health topped up.

Couple that with the fact that their health, armour and shields are based off yours, and scale higher than yours, and they become incredibly hard to take down. I bust out a War Cry for myself and my Kubrow, and we just annihilate everything. My Sahasa and Sunika's finisher attacks are still taking out heavy units long after my melee damage has begun to plummet, which is why I'm arguing so strongly for them

Vacuum from a Sentinel only lasts until you run out of Sentinel revives, which is capped to 1 for people who don't have the Primed Regen mod yet. I want to play an 80 minute survival to farm X resource for whatever reason. I take my Sentinel, it's dead by wave 35. I take my Kubrow or Kavat, it doesn't even go down once. If my Sentinel dies, I have to loot everything "the hard way" anyway, which is not an issue at all, especially if you use melee. 

To be completely honest and sincere, the ONLY reason I've been running Sentinels lately is the amount of Plains of Eidolon content I've been doing. Because of the huge distance scale, Kubrows and Kavats don't really end up using their abilities, and they don't get as much opportunity to attack since they stick by you. Of course, I'm not bringing Sentinels for damage, just Helios for free scans and Carrier if I'm bringing a poor ammo-economy weapon. 

I've taken my sentinel vacuum off for PoE though. Adding Archwing Launchers to the list of things that can be Vacuumed is a nightmare. I run 6-7 Teralysts per night, and we deploy our archwings before the end of the battle to keep things streamlined, but then we all suffer having them pulled from their spots and activated automatically. That, and because sentinel Vacuum is still buggy, occasionally Carrier would siphon up my Archwing Launcher and not actually give it to me until around 30 seconds had passed and the glitch resolved itself. Thanks to the new hotfix, I can't just put down a second Launcher, so I have to actually wait for this to resolve itself, and that could cost us an entire Teralyst run.

People who are Anti-Pet keep bringing up Kubrows and Kavats getting stuck in doors and dying or becoming useless. This is not a reason to give them vacuum, this is a reason to ask DE to fix this bug so that they can work normally again. It's a poor reason to try to bandaid it with non-fixes, and it's an inappropriate bandaid to try to use. If Sentinels were bugging out, it would be equally unreasonable to ask for them to get buffed.

[JuicyPop]

8 minutes ago, Altre said:

Bud, you have yet to make a sound argument. Pointing out that people haven't convinced you is redundant. That's why people are still discussing it. Tell me why I need universal vacuum and can't enjoy the loot gathering. I've been reading other arguments as to why and have yet to be convinced. I haven't shamed anyone or called anyone lazy.

Re-read this entire thread then. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by JuicyPop

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, Altre said:

I'm thinking we also need a constant 3x speed boost to all frames. I mean, having to live with the tedium of running through a map just ruins the flow of the game. I also hate getting killed. Ruins the flow of the game.

How are you even getting killed in this game?

[SpinnningSideKick]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

How are you even getting killed in this game?

Hes joking. 

[Altre]

1 minute ago, JuicyPop said:

Re-read this entire thread then. 

Already have, that's why I said you have yet to make a convincing arguement...

What you consider convincing has yet to convince me and others, the same as my argument to your side. As it stands, why do the devs need to take more time out of developing more content and refining pertinent aspects of the game for something that isn't broken?

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 minute ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

Hes joking. 

Orly?

[SpinnningSideKick]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Orly?

The whole first paragraph is exaggerations. 

[Altre]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Orly?

Exaggeration about people's complaint for convenience, sir. If I check your stats, will you have zero deaths?

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Just now, SpinnningSideKick said:

The whole first paragraph is exaggerations. 

I KNOW! \o/

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 minutes ago, Altre said:

Exaggeration about people's complaint for convenience, sir. If I check your stats, will you have zero deaths?

6 minutes ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

Hes joking. 

 

 

 

 Seriously tho. We already have this convenience. At this point lack of UV only singles pets out as less appealing. Acoomplishing nothing else gameplay wise.

 I've repeated it, wow, probably 20 times in the past week...

Edited November 11, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[JuicyPop]

3 minutes ago, Altre said:

Already have, that's why I said you have yet to make a convincing arguement...

What you consider convincing has yet to convince me and others, the same as my argument to your side. As it stands, why do the devs need to take more time out of developing more content and refining pertinent aspects of the game for something that isn't broken?

"I don't form my opinions based on facts and sound reasoning, so damned if you think you can convince me with any of that."

[Altre]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I KNOW! \o/

We're on the same page then! Yay!

10 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

Well, that may be a bit of a selective name.

I run a lot of melee heavy stuff. I love my Eternal War Valkyr, and my Toxic Lash plague-spreader Saryn, so I'm always melee striking to get their health back. I also run Hirudo a lot so I can do quick melee and get health back (rather than needing to completely swap, and use Life Strike), so my melee damage keeps their health topped up.

Couple that with the fact that their health, armour and shields are based off yours, and scale higher than yours, and they become incredibly hard to take down. I bust out a War Cry for myself and my Kubrow, and we just annihilate everything. My Sahasa and Sunika's finisher attacks are still taking out heavy units long after my melee damage has begun to plummet, which is why I'm arguing so strongly for them

Vacuum from a Sentinel only lasts until you run out of Sentinel revives, which is capped to 1 for people who don't have the Primed Regen mod yet. I want to play an 80 minute survival to farm X resource for whatever reason. I take my Sentinel, it's dead by wave 35. I take my Kubrow or Kavat, it doesn't even go down once. If my Sentinel dies, I have to loot everything "the hard way" anyway, which is not an issue at all, especially if you use melee. 

To be completely honest and sincere, the ONLY reason I've been running Sentinels lately is the amount of Plains of Eidolon content I've been doing. Because of the huge distance scale, Kubrows and Kavats don't really end up using their abilities, and they don't get as much opportunity to attack since they stick by you. Of course, I'm not bringing Sentinels for damage, just Helios for free scans and Carrier if I'm bringing a poor ammo-economy weapon. 

I've taken my sentinel vacuum off for PoE though. Adding Archwing Launchers to the list of things that can be Vacuumed is a nightmare. I run 6-7 Teralysts per night, and we deploy our archwings before the end of the battle to keep things streamlined, but then we all suffer having them pulled from their spots and activated automatically. That, and because sentinel Vacuum is still buggy, occasionally Carrier would siphon up my Archwing Launcher and not actually give it to me until around 30 seconds had passed and the glitch resolved itself. Thanks to the new hotfix, I can't just put down a second Launcher, so I have to actually wait for this to resolve itself, and that could cost us an entire Teralyst run.

People who are Anti-Pet keep bringing up Kubrows and Kavats getting stuck in doors and dying or becoming useless. This is not a reason to give them vacuum, this is a reason to ask DE to fix this bug so that they can work normally again. It's a poor reason to try to bandaid it with non-fixes, and it's an inappropriate bandaid to try to use. If Sentinels were bugging out, it would be equally unreasonable to ask for them to get buffed.

Helios for scan president 2017 (THE ELECTION IS HAPPENING AS WE SPEAK, FOLKS)!

I did the same thing.

[SpinnningSideKick]

3 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I KNOW! \o/

lol then dont add a question mark. 

[Altre]

2 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

"I don't form my opinions based on facts and sound reasoning, so damned if you think you can convince me with any of that."

Patronizing, rather than giving a valid argument is the death of reasonable conversation. Insult isn't "sound reason", it's the end of the use of logic.

Give me valid point that would make me change my view. At least I'm agreeing that I can't convince you, but that's perfectly fine. I'll bow out if you can't provide a convincing argument. Neither of us belong in this arena if we can't convince one another.