The Needed Overhaul That Will Never Happen.

[Onite]

TL:DR:: This cannot be summarized into a single sentence. If you're not going to read the post, please dont respond to it blindly with knee-jerk replies.

 

 

 

 

So this guy posted a thread on here that really needs more attention.

 

Specifically, this

 

 

The powercreep arguement is the big point where DE is really shooting themselves in the foot right now. Its the entire reason why myself and alot of other people stopped playing warframe for extended periods of time. Because even with new content, it gets boring after 2 seconds because theres nothing to do with the new content after you play with it briefly.

 

Warframe has an extremely bad level of powercreep going on. So much so that it overshadows the entire game.

 

 

 

        When you first started warframe, there was balance and challenge. You were exploring how to wall run, do acrobatics, you wanted to get good at doing that stuff. There was something to do, something to really master. You also wanted to just get into the game because what you had just tasted was really good, you wanted more of that.

 

But the more you play the game, the more it changes. The more you find yourself just getting all the things that make the game extremely easy.

 

Things like using some guns over others because you had no choice if you were going to kill end game enemies.

You also use some mods over others because you'd be a moron if you didnt.

 

Mods like Serration/Hornet strike, barrel diffusion/split chamber. Speed trigger/gunslinger. In fact, if you dont use those three mods, you cannot get through the game.

 

But they made it too easy. Because you can get ice/lightning/fire damage which are all essentially extra serration or + damage mods. And lets not forget about armor piercing damage mods as well. It too is another clone of serration type mods if not better. Thats 5 mods. 5 mods right there alone, where if you put every single one of them in your gun, you will absolutely destroy everything in the game very very easily. So much so that you could put all of them in a dethcube sentinel and go AFK on a defense mission and have it play itself. This should be a huge red flag in the game design that the game is too easy. So easy that nothing you learned at the beginning of the game matters anymore. You dont have to worry about landing headshots, you dont have to worry about stealth, you dont have to worry about acrobatics, you dont even have to worry about your other teammates and you're not rewarded for cooperation.

The only time you ever come close to coop is in defense missions. And even then its not even coop, its just more convenient to have other people make your mission easier by doing your work for you. And you get to reap all the rewards as if you were doing it alone.

 

The mods arent even the worst of it. Abilities are the next nail in the coffin thats been really killing warframe's gameplay. And thats slot 4 abilities.

I'm talking about: Miasma, Rhino Stomp, World on Fire, Molecular Prime, Vortex. Just to name a few.

There are a few similar abilities that also do the same but you get the point.

 

These are all abilities that prettymuch every frame in the game gets access to, and they all make the game extremely easy. It makes it so any time you even get more than 5 enemies coming after you, you can just hit a button to make them go away. And you get rewarded for it.

 

The only times people really find difficulty are when fighting extremely unforgiving and badly designed bosses such as Phorid or Raptor. And at that point, those boss fights are still not enjoyable due to the fact its all about

 

                                                                                              /Yes = Repeat until you defeat the RNG

                                                                                            /

"does your DPS pay the cost of killing this bullet sponge?"

                                                                                            \

                                                                                              \No = There is absolutely nothing you can do, Rely on

                                                                                                          other people or get +serration/armor pierce/etc

 

 

The only boss fight in the game where that really doesnt apply is Jackal.

This is because there is a method and mechanic to how he works. Which means he is not a bullet sponge, he has depth which is where the difficulty relies on where the ability to move your character and use your equipment meet.

 

So what changes need to be made?

It prettymuch boils down to nerf everything in the game. Nerf everything that has to do with drastic health and damage.

No more bosses with 10 million hp, no more need for guns that do 12k damage per second, no more abilities that completely wipe out entire rooms of enemies.

 

Doing this also gets rid of bad holes in the design of the game, such as toxic ancients that can one shot you for example.

 

This will also bring back the feeling of the beginning of the game, but with more depth, more challenge, more freedom to have other options to kill your enemies, more difficulty curve, more room to get better at the game, more room to really get satisfying feelings as a reward for getting through enemies instead of it just being a single button that grants you kills.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Onite

[Kamentari]

I very much approve of the nerf of the nuke button - sometimes I end up replacing Saryn's abilities leaving miasma only, I would like to see more powers that are able to interact with others or that can create interesting combinations

[Kamentari]

Which encourages co-operative play which helps build better teams. I wholeheartedly agree.

 

A game which I won't mention had a rather robust power interaction system which linked with certain weapon enhancements. A properly built team would be FAR more deadly than the sum of its parts.

 

Edit: I could see things like Sonar + Bullet Attractor being a really cool combination. Maybe the combination makes all attracted projectiles score a crit. I'm sure there can be so many more of these based on already existing powers.

 

which game is that? I come from Mass Effect 3 and the power combos was a great thing, many characters could solo but they were awesome with a team.

[Thundersquid]

not a fan of the nerf everything approach but up the enemy count and give us hard bosses. they dumb everything down right out of the shoot.  apparently vor when he first came out was really hard...where are those types of bosses?  warframe needs hard hard bosses or else the game will die. you can solo them all easily with even unranked weapons given the time and ammo. we need a boss or 2 or 3 bosses that take 10 guys to take them down or 4 with the good guns.  the solution is not to nerf but to up the enemies and the bosses drastically where appropriate (aka planets) to make that game harder and more of a challenge.

[JamesSergon]

I agree with most of your plead. I'm plussing this.

[Onite]

not a fan of the nerf everything approach but up the enemy count and give us hard bosses. they dumb everything down right out of the shoot.  apparently vor when he first came out was really hard...where are those types of bosses?  warframe needs hard hard bosses or else the game will die. you can solo them all easily with even unranked weapons given the time and ammo. we need a boss or 2 or 3 bosses that take 10 guys to take them down or 4 with the good guns.  the solution is not to nerf but to up the enemies and the bosses drastically where appropriate (aka planets) to make that game harder and more of a challenge.

We already have too many enemies like that. And they all instantly kill you. Like Hyena or Raptor. And yes, vor originally used to just be a grineer stunstick dude with like 2k hp. Which was hard to tackle considering all you had was a braton mk1.

 

Saying you could hypothetically kill every boss in the game if you had infinite ammo and if you somehow stay alive (which is possible, but very much not probable.) Is not "easy." Its bad design and theres nothing fun about it. Theres no system to it. Theres no interest in that kind of garbage.

 

You're basically saying if i have a gun that only does 1 damage but i have enough ammo, i could kill a boss that has 20k hp eventually if i just sat there shooting nonstop. Therefor the boss is easy because on paper in the forumla, you see "unranked braton" and you killed a "level 70 raptor."

Do you really want to sit there for like 45 minutes shooting something nonstop? And you want to do it for longer? That is your goal of "hard?"

 

Why not instead simplify it where you dont have to worry as much about stacking damage and jacking up enemy health and instead make the gameplay about "techniques into defeating enemy AI" instead of "Builds to drain enemy hp quickly"

 

Where your mod points are used to customize your gun to your playstyle instead of building your gun through a linear damage path like an RPG?

 

The more you want to build up on making higher stats for both players and enemies, the more you take away from the original feel the game had at the start.

 

Improving boss difficulty is in depth and technique, like learning enemy attack patterns, knowing how to avoid their attacks, and how to find opportunities to counter attack for the most damage.

 

I suggest you go back and watch the video in my post about powercreep. Or else you're going to just be Mr.Owl going "how many licks does it take to get to the Ash center of a Tyl Regor?"

[-Kittens-]

Mods like Serration/Hornet strike, barrel diffusion/split chamber. Speed trigger/gunslinger. In fact, if you dont use those three mods, you cannot get through the game.

 

Didn't have ANY of those except gunslinger when I finished completely unlocking all systems, after doing some level II void runs to boot.

 

Histrionic exaggeration is exaggerated.

 

You've also completely ignored DE's economic model and the fact they have no publisher or fallback method for continued playing.

 

It's obvious this simply isn't your game, and DE is unlikely to hire to make make exactly the game you want to play, as you obviously have no idea how much it would mean in financial repercussions to do what you think should be done.

Edited July 31, 2013 by -Kittens-

[Frostmire]

I think one of the factors that make Warframe imbalanced is the ability to make the "cost" become non-existent

 

Like Warframe abilities , they are balanced around their energy cost , the stronger it is , the more enerygy it takes . But then we have Streamline, Energy Siphon , Flow , power efficency helmet ..etc .. all those things help the player almost bypass the energy cost . In the end , there is nothing to prevent players from spamming their strongest abilities .

 

How about weapons ? All weapons have their pros and cons , but then , we have the mods to fix the cons . But we have mod cap and fixed number of mod slot to limit the ability to throw a lot of mods to weapons tomake it insanely strong . If we only have 30 mods cap on our weapons , the mod cost would actually balance the power of the mod ( for instance : damage mod are quite expensive , unranked multishot even costs 10 mod cap ) but that's just "if" , in fact , we have potato and forma to actually forget about mod cap , leaving 8 mod slots the only tool to limit the weapon .

 

DE wouldn't need to increase the level of the enemies if we weren't able to make everything a power house with mods , thanks to potato and forma .

Edited July 31, 2013 by Frostmire

[Schattensang]

At least they are starting to change the bosses slowly. I pretty much like those new fights. Jackal was allready a nice thing, that you can't just mindlessly pump your bullets in it's body to kill it, but you have to use at least some sort of plan.

Lech Kril is another boss that is really great, as you have to attack him from behind to make the fight progress, and he has different phases.

Vor now has three phases as well, even so you have the possibility to just pump him with bullets to kill him, that's not the best idea, cause he suddenly throws huge amounts of mines at you.

 

Other bosses right now just have "fake" phases, like the Raptor. Cool, he closes his wings to regenerate his shields... well... okay, that's it. Nothing changes, and it is pretty much just a "wait for it"-phase and an increase in healthpoints, as he can't regenerate his shields otherwise.

The same for Kela De Thaym. At least her infinite Roller-spawn is a nice touch.

[JamesSergon]

I think one of the factors that make Warframe imbalanced is the ability to make the "cost" become non-existent

 

Like Warframe abilities , they are balanced around their energy cost , the stronger it is , the more enerygy it takes . But then we have Streamline, Energy Siphon , Flow , power efficency helmet ..etc .. all those things help the player almost bypass the energy cost . In the end , there is nothing to prevent players from spamming their strongest abilities .

 

How about weapons ? All weapons have their pros and cons , but then , we have the mods to fix the cons . But we have mod cap and fixed number of mod slot to limit the ability to throw a lot of mods to weapons tomake it insanely strong . If we only have 30 mods cap on our weapons , the mod cost would actually balance the power of the mod ( for instance : damage mod are quite expensive , unranked multishot even costs 10 mod cap ) but that's just "if" , in fact , we have potato and forma to actually forget about mod cap , leaving 8 mod slots the only tool to limit the weapon .

 

DE wouldn't need to increase the level of the enemies if we weren't able to make everything a power house with mods , thanks to potato and forma .

 

Well you got one important point here.  More tactical gameplay in the line of what I proposed yesterday is needed to make enemies more than bullets sponge (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/88768-enhanced-gameplay-aimechanismsunits-suggestions/), but I too feel like you SHOULDN'T be able to put all modes you want into your weapons/warframe at the same time.  I'm just throwing here some potential solutions:

 

- Instead of double the point bank, Orokin reactor/catalyst could act as a mod booster and BOOST the effect of all equipped mods by let's say 25%.

 

- A combination of lowering base bonus/fusion bonus, but add more fusion ranks (so it becomes harder to get a lot of damage bonus);

 

- OR beyond a certain mod rank, upgrading a mod by 1 rank add 2 more mod points, then 3, then 4....  So max rank is lowered, but once you reach max rank, you can "overclock" mods at a greater cost. Not only would that make players unable to boost everything, but they would have to keep many versions of each mods at different fusion stage in their inventory.

 

Equipping overclocked mods could be only possible if you put an Orokin reactor or catalyst installed, that is to say if you want to specialize a weapon.

Edited July 31, 2013 by JamesSergon

[Namacyst]

Remember Update 6 Xini runs? Mag with Coil Helmet and Range Mods on the double-box... the rest with hard hitters to kill Ancients that were left over after Mags push of button 4.

 

The game getting boring did not start recently...

[JamesSergon]

The more I'm thinking about my overclocking idea, the more I like it.  Imagine that:

 

Serration:

========

Rank          Cost        Effect

-------          -----         -------

0                   4            +15% dam.

1                   5            +30% dam.

2                   6            +45% dam.

=========================== (overclocking (Orokin catalyst) required in order to equip)

3                   8            +60% dam.

4                  11           +75% dam.

5                  15           +90% dam.

 

Don't forget there wouldn't be a pool of 60 points but 30, which mean a fully overclocked Serration mod would take half of the points, or 8 if the slot is forma'd, but in any case you could not have 8 mods like that. Split chamber would look like this:

 

Split chamber:

========

Rank          Cost        Effect

-------          -----         -------

0                   10            +15% multi shot.

1                   11            +30% multi shot.

2                   12            +45% multi shot.

=========================== (overclocking (Orokin catalyst) required in order to equip)

3                   14            +60% multi shot.

4                   17           +75% multi shot.

5                   21           +90% multi shot.

 

 

This would also differenciate more the role of Catalysts/reactors vs Forma.  Forma would be a lot more useful.

 

Weapons with all medium mods equipped would more versatile in general situations.  But specialized/overclocked would be better in specific situation.

Edited July 31, 2013 by JamesSergon

[Onite]

That's the one. Power combos were great.

 

To be honest, I think the whole power system needs a rework. I could go into length about what I would change, but the fact is nobody wants to hear what I have to say about it.

 

In my opinion, this whole discussion leads to a deeper underlying issue with the game. Currently there is a win formula to the game. A formula that breeds repetition and doesn't seem conducive to the enjoyable longevity of the game: mods, frames, ults and weapons. Also, the fact that I can carry all of the heaviest weapons on the quickest frame without even having to THINK about a penalty to any other system (power level, sprint speed) is a red flag for me.

I agree.

 

Didn't have ANY of those except gunslinger when I finished completely unlocking all systems, after doing some level II void runs to boot.

 

Histrionic exaggeration is exaggerated.

 

You've also completely ignored DE's economic model and the fact they have no publisher or fallback method for continued playing.

 

It's obvious this simply isn't your game, and DE is unlikely to hire to make make exactly the game you want to play, as you obviously have no idea how much it would mean in financial repercussions to do what you think should be done.

 

I highly doubt that you got through the entire game without using any + damage mods. Unless you just piggybacked online.

 

I have NOT completely ignored DE's "economic model" and this entire thread is about their method of continued playing.

 

This would very much so be "my game" if DE stuck to their guns and made the game they wanted to make in the first place. The fact that their own game changes in gameplay and that DE started catering to the people that have already fallen into the power creep hole, shows me that they're just going to go along with whatever they can grab. And as for "financial repercussions." In the long run it would actually help them if they actually made a worthwhile game. Right now they're wasting money by pushing out new content that no one really gets the most of. When i see that their own content is getting wasted because of the direction their gameplay is taking, thats time and work wasted on their part. Which is not efficient in the slightest.

 

The game is also still in beta, so changes like these are expected to happen, which is within their budget for even funding the basis of a videogame/project.

 

The whole reason i titled this "that will never happen" is because the game is practically in release, and its too late to make these much needed changes. Its like changing the floorplan of a house while the cement is already drying.

[BadAimbot]

The problem here is the mods. Mods are very poorly designed from a game balance standpoint. You can max out a Warframe's kill button very quickly as it only has 3 levels, and that's supposed to be able to carry you until the end of the game. Yeah, you can get Focus. Wow. 30% more damage. There's other mods that affect them indirectly, but when looking at, say, Molecular Prime, you can get it to full power so quickly, and destroy everything for a long time.

 

Weapon mods are also a problem, but for a different reason. Let's say you have every pistol damage mod except Barrel Diffusion. You're gonna suck at endgame content until you get it. But when you do, you're suddenly doing 120% more damage. Blaze would be a more practical example, being very difficult to get but easy to max out, and it makes Shotguns significantly more powerful. There's also a side problem that Serration and Hornet Strike take way too long to level at later levels, which puts people up against a wall for how powerful you can get.

 

Last problem is enemy scaling. No, not resistance scaling (a problem, but not for this thread), but Effective HP scaling. Enemies go from dying in split seconds to bullet sponging way too quickly. Their EHP needs to go up slower so there's not drastic differences in enemy survivability. However, with how drastic your weapons power increases with mods, I don't really blame them.

 

What they need to do is lower the numbers on everything so you don't increase your damage so quickly. They should increase the mod drop rate but lower the speed that they level, so you can't go and upgrade your mods so quickly, but higher level content should drop higher level Fusion Cores so players can get stronger by actually doing harder content. This would also reduce the RNG in obtaining the first copy of a mod, because as exampled before, someone who gets screwed and doesn't get Barrel Diffusion for a long time is both locked out of harder content, and is going to drastically increase in power when they eventually do get it.

[Onite]

 

In order to get rid of all of that we also have to get rid of the need to make those kinds of builds, and thats by simplifying the enemy's stats from these ridiculously high numbers.

[MEsoJD]

 My biggest complaint is that difficulty is addressed by changing stats and increasing numbers aided by random spawning.... I want smart enemies, not beefy strong stupid ones.

Edited August 1, 2013 by MEsoJD

[Inez]

Did anyone here actually watch this video?

"Powercreep ruins games and makes them lose money." In what universe? The authors of the video then talk about WoW multiple times, a game which counters every point this video makes. To make this perfectly clear, WoW is 100% based on "powercreep" and makes bucketloads of money. The central thesis of the video is flat out wrong.

They then talk about pvp games. Powercreep in pvp games and pve games are two entirely different issues. People play PVE games for progression. Progression involves powercreep. It has been this way since the days of Gary Gygax and Lord British. And people love their RPGs because of it. This entire video bascially says RPGs are dumb, and everyone needs to play PVP games. Which is pretty ridiculous.

I could go on and on about the ridiculousness of this video, but when its central points can't hold up under even a smidge of critical thinking, there's really no point.

Your post has some issues too. But for sake of civility, I'll leave it at that.

[JamesSergon]

Well I would add that i've tried to post 2 ideas about how to get out the power creep hole with a revision of the mod/catalyst/point costs system and a lot of enhancement of general gameplay features that would add to the need of varying strategies (thus builds).  For the former, it was basically a way to make it so upgrading a weapon means specializing it (more specific power at the expense of less general power), not adding overall power to it.   Maybe my suggestion wasn't perfect in execution, but the core ideas reflected that.  Any replies it got were a total rejection of the system; the main argument was exactly what the proposed system was trying to combat: "i don't want the system to change in any way

it would make myself less powerful and not much distinctfully more powerful then starting players".

 

This make me think that a looot of dedicated players are already deeeeeep down in the power creep hole.  And they don't want to lose their superoverpower effortless toys that are currently ruining the potential fun gameplay experience.  And i'm not saying that because I don't have supertoys by myself.  I just see where this is going on.

 

But well, i'm not giving hope on DE.  The core game is very flexible as it is..  And DE seems to like trying new things.  They even start scraping mission types and try better ideas.  They might as well do that with some gameplay mechanisms.  *crossing fingers*

[Bakercompany86]

OP:  I completely agree.  Even as a newer player I can see this.

 

I'm a much bigger fan of games with linear weaponry;  where everything has it's pro's and con's but are generally on the same level.

 

Planetside 2 did a great job of this.  Yes occasionally they tweak a weapon, but as far as balance the game has it nailed.

 

The problem we have now, is that every single mod is a DPS boost of some sort.  Whether it's elemental damage, plain damage, armor piercing, etc etc you're just stacking on more damage.  The difference between my starter rifle and what I have now is ridiculous.  I can mow through almost an entire room before reloading at some points.  In Planetside 2, you can do just fine with all starting weapons.

 

Yes I know Planetside 2 is a completely different creature than Warframe, but PS2 also managed to have a game with zero power creep.

[Inez]

OP:  I completely agree.  Even as a newer player I can see this.

 

I'm a much bigger fan of games with linear weaponry;  where everything has it's pro's and con's but are generally on the same level.

 

Planetside 2 did a great job of this.  Yes occasionally they tweak a weapon, but as far as balance the game has it nailed.

 

The problem we have now, is that every single mod is a DPS boost of some sort.  Whether it's elemental damage, plain damage, armor piercing, etc etc you're just stacking on more damage.  The difference between my starter rifle and what I have now is ridiculous.  I can mow through almost an entire room before reloading at some points.  In Planetside 2, you can do just fine with all starting weapons.

 

Yes I know Planetside 2 is a completely different creature than Warframe, but PS2 also managed to have a game with zero power creep.

Planetside 2 is a PvP game. Its enjoyable because of the dynamic difficulty (other players). PvE RPGs are enjoyavle because of progression. The term "power creep" in no way applies to PvE games like you think. Power Creep is the entire basis or RPGs.

[Bakercompany86]

Planetside 2 is a PvP game. Its enjoyable because of the dynamic difficulty (other players). PvE RPGs are enjoyavle because of progression. The term "power creep" in no way applies to PvE games like you think. Power Creep is the entire basis or RPGs.

 

Sure it does.

 

It's simply the principle that advancement is solely based upon becoming more powerful via direct damage upgrades.

 

Basically, instead of more skills, more robust equipment, coupled with improved skill, you simply can put out more damage and absorb more.

 

Warframe most definitely has this problem.  Endgame, or progression, is simply stacking on more damage and more health.

 

 

The reason I reference planetside is because every upgrade doesn't make you more powerful or better than the next guy (okay some do, but nothing like this).  All upgrades are simply different, not really upgrades at all.  Just more options to suit your playstyle.

 

Yes it's a PvP game, but the same theory could apply to this game.  I'm afraid that's not likely possible, as it would require a massive overhaul of many game components.

 

You are correct about the PvP difficulty being dynamic, because players constantly change tactics and strategy.  So DE would have to become that much more creative.

[Boatsniper]

The entire god damn game needs an overhaul. The environments, enemies (AI, variety, resistances, weaknesses, scaling), weapon diversity and scaling, rewards, weapon/warframe acquisition, mastery, stealth, mod potency/system, Warframe powers, UI, Auras, XP gain, mission diversity, solo vs. squad... All of it needs to be either expanded, changed, removed, or reworked before final release if this game wants to be anything remotely close to ready.

I dare someone to go through this list and make a topic touching on what is wrong with each mechanic and how to fix it to work with every other mechanic.

I. Dare. You.

[JamesSergon]

The problem here is the mods. Mods are very poorly designed from a game balance standpoint. You can max out a Warframe's kill button very quickly as it only has 3 levels, and that's supposed to be able to carry you until the end of the game. Yeah, you can get Focus. Wow. 30% more damage. There's other mods that affect them indirectly, but when looking at, say, Molecular Prime, you can get it to full power so quickly, and destroy everything for a long time.

 

Weapon mods are also a problem, but for a different reason. Let's say you have every pistol damage mod except Barrel Diffusion. You're gonna suck at endgame content until you get it. But when you do, you're suddenly doing 120% more damage. Blaze would be a more practical example, being very difficult to get but easy to max out, and it makes Shotguns significantly more powerful. There's also a side problem that Serration and Hornet Strike take way too long to level at later levels, which puts people up against a wall for how powerful you can get.

 

Last problem is enemy scaling. No, not resistance scaling (a problem, but not for this thread), but Effective HP scaling. Enemies go from dying in split seconds to bullet sponging way too quickly. Their EHP needs to go up slower so there's not drastic differences in enemy survivability. However, with how drastic your weapons power increases with mods, I don't really blame them.

 

What they need to do is lower the numbers on everything so you don't increase your damage so quickly. They should increase the mod drop rate but lower the speed that they level, so you can't go and upgrade your mods so quickly, but higher level content should drop higher level Fusion Cores so players can get stronger by actually doing harder content. This would also reduce the RNG in obtaining the first copy of a mod, because as exampled before, someone who gets screwed and doesn't get Barrel Diffusion for a long time is both locked out of harder content, and is going to drastically increase in power when they eventually do get it.

 

I agree with many things said here.  However, for the last part, making the mod slower to rank up won't improved game balance.  The only way to make to make builds tactical + balance is through generalization vs specialization.  And it can be done many ways:

 

- Reducing by a LOT the minimum vs maximum mod points delta: 30 vs 120. It is useless and only contribute to break balance; give another job to orokin (unlocking an ultimate slot or allowing to use maxed out mods) or remove them;

 

- Raising the mod cost for direct/indirect + damage % by a LOT too (possibly using n + 1 formula passed a certain rank (1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11 and 15 points, for example)

 

That would be a good start.

[JamesSergon]

The entire god damn game needs an overhaul. The environments, enemies (AI, variety, resistances, weaknesses, scaling), weapon diversity and scaling, rewards, weapon/warframe acquisition, mastery, stealth, mod potency/system, Warframe powers, UI, Auras, XP gain, mission diversity, solo vs. squad... All of it needs to be either expanded, changed, removed, or reworked before final release if this game wants to be anything remotely close to ready.

I dare someone to go through this list and make a topic touching on what is wrong with each mechanic and how to fix it to work with every other mechanic.

I. Dare. You.

 

Well.  I would say that all these problems originates from about the same pool of issues that can be tweak inside the actual core parameters of the game, or by adding some content (mode, dynamic environment objects, more enemies varieties with abilities that force players to be more tactics, ...).  UI is kind of independant, but I know what you mean.  

[-Kittens-]

That's the one. Power combos were great.

 

To be honest, I think the whole power system needs a rework. I could go into length about what I would change, but the fact is nobody wants to hear what I have to say about it.

 

In my opinion, this whole discussion leads to a deeper underlying issue with the game. Currently there is a win formula to the game. A formula that breeds repetition and doesn't seem conducive to the enjoyable longevity of the game: mods, frames, ults and weapons. Also, the fact that I can carry all of the heaviest weapons on the quickest frame without even having to THINK about a penalty to any other system (power level, sprint speed) is a red flag for me.

 

I think you guys are living in the rosy hue of nostalgia and forgetting that powers got nerfed across the board when the game got geth and batarians. Power combos got nerfed by literally 50% and they were never returned back. Weapon use rule ME3 except for infiltrators spamming cloak to..... up their weapon damage.

 

While WarFrame certainly could use power synergy in the same style, the fact is that weapon play ruled me3 multiplayer and the top 5 played characters in ME were: Destroyer [100 % weapon platform] Geth Juggernaut [Weapon Platform with recursive health melee] Turian Ghost [super ridiculous spike damage assault rifle power] Geth infiltrator [literal glass cannon weapon platform] and Geth trooper [Weapons platform with built in AoE DoT].

 

The only power characters in the top 10 were the Krogan Juggernaut and Krogan Warlord, both of whom had powers that increased either weapon damage or melee damage directly. [biotic Hammer, Charge]

 

Also unlike Warframe, you LITERALLY had to BUY your weapon and power upgrades and when you used them you had to BUY more. Frankly WarFrame's system is FAR more fair and user friendly in that regard, and if they start monetizing mods I can say with certainty I will be hitting the uninstall button, because MEMP's economic model was the literal definition of brazenly mercenary.

 

Should DE work on powers? Yes.

 

Should they have multiple angles and latitude of synergy? Absolutely.

 

Should mods be monetized?  F@<k that.

Edited August 8, 2013 by -Kittens-